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Playing the devil's advocate. What if all the data collected was also publicly available?

by 3825 13y ago

bsilvereagle 13y ago
No. From a corporate perspective there would be a ton of IP, potentially. From a personal prospective, no. I consider who I call and when I call them private and not public.
- ihsw 13y ago
  Many laws are formed around the basis of "just in case," for example marijuana prohibition exists because there's a threat that criminal organizations might be beneficiaries from marijuana sales. What if we knew which sellers were contributing to crime and, more importantly, which weren't? If we have the opportunity to reduce friction in society, then why not? Insurance -- of all kinds -- is another area dominated by "just in case" policies. What if we really knew which insurance claims were fraudulent?
- IgorPartola 13y ago
  And I consider who you call and when you call them my private property. You can consider all you want, until your elected official changes the law, your consideration has no bearing on reality. Who owns calls made over a telephone network subsidized by the public? Let's walk through this: if you send a letter in the mail from you to me, USPS can reasonably be expected to scan the envelope and record this fact. If you go out into a public place and have a conversation with me while shouting, you can reasonably expect other people, some of whom might be working for the NSA to overhear. Why are those things not problems, but listening in on phone conversations is? Because of the difference between a public and a private place. You "consider" phone networks to be private places and they are not. We often tell people that the internet is not private and that anything that ever touches the web will stay on the web. We just learned that that is true for the phone networks as well. It seems that you cannot have a private conversation with another person other then in a physical private place... Except even then you cannot. There exists technology that will allow someone with enough money and will power to listen in on the most private conversation (either by placing a mic near you or by listening in remotely). What happens with our society when we discover the technology that allows someone to listen in on your thoughts? The problem is that anything that can be wiretapped, will be wiretapped. The solution to this problem is technological. The laws around it need to simply state two things: (1) you cannot use anything you obtain without a proper warrant against the suspect and (2) you cannot prevent someone from using encryption.
  - 3825 13y ago
    >The problem is that anything that can be wiretapped, will be wiretapped. The solution to this problem is technological. I was against you the whole time until the point where you said >The laws around it need to simply state two things: (1) you cannot use anything you obtain without a proper warrant against the suspect and (2) you cannot prevent someone from using encryption. I wholeheartedly agree with (2). (1) needs further elaboration. Can you use what you've collected to get a "proper" warrant? Can you go on a fishing expedition to assassinate someone's public image? What protection will we have against that? I do not think this is a technological problem. I find it very scary how much leeway prosecution has in whether or not to press charges. It is also very sad to see the people who I'd consider on my side to cheer for the IRS to go after tea party groups.
jtms 13y ago
oh how the black hats would love this!
w_t_payne 13y ago
It think that this is, on balance, a good idea. It would even out the information imbalance and provide equality-at-arms between the individual and the state (which is an unabashedly good thing). On the other hand, it would entail a huge cultural shift, which many people would be uncomfortable with, and would take a while to get used to. However, once the shift is complete, I think we would be more honest about ourselves, more at home in our skins, with all of our flaws and weaknesses made public. We might expect a little less (false) perfection from each other as well, which can only be a good thing.

Playing the devil's advocate. What if all the data collected was also publicly available?

by 3825 13y ago

Playing the devil's advocate. What if all the data collected was also publicly available?

No. From a corporate perspective there would be a ton of IP, potentially. From a personal prospective, no. I consider who I call and when I call them private and not public.

ihsw 13y ago
Many laws are formed around the basis of "just in case," for example marijuana prohibition exists because there's a threat that criminal organizations might be beneficiaries from marijuana sales. What if we knew which sellers were contributing to crime and, more importantly, which weren't? If we have the opportunity to reduce friction in society, then why not? Insurance -- of all kinds -- is another area dominated by "just in case" policies. What if we really knew which insurance claims were fraudulent?
IgorPartola 13y ago
And I consider who you call and when you call them my private property. You can consider all you want, until your elected official changes the law, your consideration has no bearing on reality. Who owns calls made over a telephone network subsidized by the public? Let's walk through this: if you send a letter in the mail from you to me, USPS can reasonably be expected to scan the envelope and record this fact. If you go out into a public place and have a conversation with me while shouting, you can reasonably expect other people, some of whom might be working for the NSA to overhear. Why are those things not problems, but listening in on phone conversations is? Because of the difference between a public and a private place. You "consider" phone networks to be private places and they are not. We often tell people that the internet is not private and that anything that ever touches the web will stay on the web. We just learned that that is true for the phone networks as well. It seems that you cannot have a private conversation with another person other then in a physical private place... Except even then you cannot. There exists technology that will allow someone with enough money and will power to listen in on the most private conversation (either by placing a mic near you or by listening in remotely). What happens with our society when we discover the technology that allows someone to listen in on your thoughts? The problem is that anything that can be wiretapped, will be wiretapped. The solution to this problem is technological. The laws around it need to simply state two things: (1) you cannot use anything you obtain without a proper warrant against the suspect and (2) you cannot prevent someone from using encryption.
- 3825 13y ago
  >The problem is that anything that can be wiretapped, will be wiretapped. The solution to this problem is technological. I was against you the whole time until the point where you said >The laws around it need to simply state two things: (1) you cannot use anything you obtain without a proper warrant against the suspect and (2) you cannot prevent someone from using encryption. I wholeheartedly agree with (2). (1) needs further elaboration. Can you use what you've collected to get a "proper" warrant? Can you go on a fishing expedition to assassinate someone's public image? What protection will we have against that? I do not think this is a technological problem. I find it very scary how much leeway prosecution has in whether or not to press charges. It is also very sad to see the people who I'd consider on my side to cheer for the IRS to go after tea party groups.

jtms 13y ago

oh how the black hats would love this!

w_t_payne 13y ago

It think that this is, on balance, a good idea. It would even out the information imbalance and provide equality-at-arms between the individual and the state (which is an unabashedly good thing). On the other hand, it would entail a huge cultural shift, which many people would be uncomfortable with, and would take a while to get used to. However, once the shift is complete, I think we would be more honest about ourselves, more at home in our skins, with all of our flaws and weaknesses made public. We might expect a little less (false) perfection from each other as well, which can only be a good thing.