5 ms·

I have a great idea for a webapp, but hardly any programming knowledge. What should i do?

32 points by thehigherlife 19y ago

johnrob 19y ago
I don't know how you can find a good hacker, because there is no way for you to judge one. That aside, your best bet is to offer a lot of equity in the startup. More than half of the company. Your biggest selling point is that you will take care of all the stuff that annoys hackers - designing UI screens, marketing, face time with real users. If your idea is good, you offer more than 50% equity, and take care of the non technical work, you are providing a pretty good deal. What you have to remember is that, as a non-hacker, you should feel lucky to be in the game at all. There are only two things startups REALLY need - money and hackers. If you don't bring one of those items, it's hard to make a case for being the major stakeholder.
- bmaier 19y ago
  I think this is a bit unfair to the OP. Yes hackers are important but sometimes we tend to make ourselves want to feel too important. There's nothing stopping this kid from at least making a mockup. If he's going to hackers with just an idea that's his major problem. Show the hacker something tangible and he's more likely to get a partner.
- augy 19y ago
  do people design UI screens with Adobe?
  - johnrob 19y ago
    In my opinion, you can design UI with anything visual - even pen and paper.
  - chaostheory 19y ago
    using my past life as a web designer - yes, specifically with Illustrator
- Kaizyn 19y ago
  This seems silly. The guy with the big idea should be handing out peanuts to the code monkeys, not giving them all of his cash. Knowing exactly what the web system should do is far more important than a few programming skills (you can replace the code monkey more easily than you can a good startup idea).
  - rms 19y ago
    The whole thing still only works when the big idea guy has money.
aston 19y ago
Well, you should find someone to execute on it. A good first step would be posting it somewhere where hackers are known to roam so that you can get feedback and find potential partners. Like here, for example.
- thehigherlife 19y ago
  It's hard, because you don't want to just let you plan out there in the open and have someone take it right out from under you.
  - queensnake 19y ago
    Indeed. Google for 'Non-disclosure Agreements'. But, probably you're better off learning to code, even if you do get a partner. And I agree that Python is a good language to start with.
    - thehigherlife 19y ago
      so then i guess the next question is, anyone interested in signing a non-disclosure agreement and working on a pretty cool idea for a web app?
      - pbnaidu 19y ago
        I would be interested in signing, please email me if you're interested.
        thehigherlife 19y ago
        e-mail addy?
        alaskamiller 19y ago
        alaska.miller@gmail.com
        19y ago
kyro 19y ago
If you're not planning on paying, and want to create a team, you'd better learn how to program. I was in your same position several months ago. I tried looking for programmers, and those that I found were turned off by the fact that I had no programming knowledge/experience. So, I got fed up and decided to learn how to program. I started with Python, dabbled in some SQL, and am currently trying to refine my Django skills. Time, dedication, and documentation is all it really required. It's not that bad.
- thehigherlife 19y ago
  Are there books you suggest i read, or tutorials to start with?
  - kyro 19y ago
    Yeah. For Python: http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.diveintopython.org/ http://www.diveintopython.org/ I also read the O'Reilly book on Python - 'Programming Python' There's Python.org for all docs, of course. For Django - http://www.djangoproject.com http://www.djangoproject.com - they have a cool tutorial on the front page, and http://www.djangobook.com http://www.djangobook.com, then move to the documentation from djangoproject.
  - henning 19y ago
    Even though getting started with PHP and MySQL is easy, please avoid the temptation as it will brain-damage you in ways that will take a long time to recover from.
    - SwellJoe 19y ago
      I tend to agree with this (PHP is perhaps my least favorite language outside of C#/Java). But there is some really good PHP code out there. The problem is finding it--particularly for a non-programmer. DokuWiki is very nice. Flyspray aint even half bad. Wordpress, while extraordinarily popular, is a bit painful to look at...it's getting better, but it's not ideal to learn from (I'm not knocking Wordpress...I use it for two blogs and recommend it to everyone who asks about blogging software). The majority of Joomla is downright scary bad--I feel dumber every day that I spend working with it.
jgrahamc 19y ago
Is that you, Kevin Rose? John.
- thehigherlife 19y ago
  nope.
- henning 19y ago
  to the OP: make sure your CAPTCHAs don't suck as bad as digg's, which can be preprocessed and ready for segmentation/recognition in three lines of code.
axod 19y ago
ideas are easy. Executing them is harder.
- imsteve 19y ago
  for sufficiently vague definitions of "idea".
  - Shooter 19y ago
    [for sufficiently vague definitions of "idea"] Upmodded. That is brilliant. As an entrepreneur, I have very specific thoughts on what constitutes a "good idea for a business." To me, it suggests that you have four things: 1. a keen insight into what a group of people (with money) want 2. you have a means of delivering a solution to those needy people 3. you have a way of targeting those needy people to let them know about your solution 4. you can deliver your solution at a profit. When I started investing in startups, I learned that my definition of a good idea for a business differs GREATLY from what many are willing to pitch to me as a good idea. Many people are willing to pitch a very nebulous 'idea.' There are also certain ideas prevalent in the startup community now that are MOSTLY or SOMETIMES true, but that I think people take too literally or misunderstand. "Ideas are worthless, execution is paramount." Look, if you have a truly great idea...execution becomes much less important. With a great idea (which implies an actual business model), you can make quite a few execution mistakes and still end up with a great business. If you stumble, investors are more forgiving and will usually find the help you need in the execution area. "Your final business is almost always different than what you initially intended to do" is another startup cliche that I think some entrepreneurs sometimes take too literally. This pearl of wisdom is basically telling you that you need to be flexible. Being flexible is very different that attacking an industry because it is hot and hoping something shakes out. "Get the users and figure out a profit model later. It is easy to monetize millions of eyeballs." Again, this may be mostly true for a certain class of business...but it can also be a ticket to FAIL. With apologies to Mrs. Robinson, I'm actually getting pitches like this: Entrepreneur: "I have a GREAT idea!" Me: "Yes?" Entrepreneur: "Plastics!!!" Me: "What do you mean 'plastics'?" Entrepreneur: "They're gonna be huge. Plastics are the future." Me: "What is your actual idea? How are you going to make money?" Entrepreneur: "Advertising?"
neo 19y ago
Get an NDA with anyone you work with. "Ideas are easy, execution is hard" is a cop-out excuse by people who don't have any patentable worthwhile ideas of their own!
- jamiequint 19y ago
  ideas aren't patentable
  - Jd 19y ago
    For better or worse, this is incorrect.
  - brlewis 19y ago
    In the theoretical law where statute is obeyed and Supreme Court precedents are followed, you're absolutely right. For the actual law that happens to you when you go to court, you should consult a lawyer.
  - Shooter 19y ago
    "ideas aren't patentable" That's true, but business methods and certain software implementations of novel ideas are patentable...at least in the US. I've found that truly good ideas are easily translated into one or both of these. The problem is, most people have "me too" ideas. All philosophical arguments aside, the patent system can be an entrepreneur's best friend. Yes, the system is heavily abused. I personally don't believe in software patents. But I damn sure use them. Color me hypocritical.
- deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]
- pg 19y ago
  "Ideas are easy, execution is hard" is a cop-out excuse by people who don't have any patentable worthwhile ideas I have a lot of ideas. Some are worthwhile. And yet I think execution is the hard part.
  - 19y ago
dorait 19y ago
There are several ways you can go about this: 1. Create a simple prototype that demonstrates the core ideas of the concept and show it to a few people (you trust). You may be able to attract some good developers if it appeals to them. 2. Start a blog and talk about how your idea may benefit some potential customers. See whether any one shows interest. 3. Go to one of the startup meet ups (www.meetup.com) in your area and informally discuss it or present it to the group. 4. You may not need to build the entire software. Most of the good developers know how to reuse existing software (libraries) to quickly build a version 1 of the product. 5. Try a few interns from your local computer school and let them build the first version of the product. Let a few friends try it out. If there is enough interest, you may be able to find some supporters in funding it or developers interested in developing it further. 6. You can start a project in one of the open source communities like sourceforge put some high level specs and see whether any one will be interested in joining you. 7. If you strongly believe in the idea and do not want to go open source, prepare a simple plan and approach some angels. Many angel investors may also have a good rolodex of development resources. I think having a good idea for a great app is cool. But you need to go to the next step of prototyping or let others visualize it so that you can get some reactions. This will help improve the idea and also hear if such an idea is already implemented somewhere else.
- SwellJoe 19y ago
  "6. You can start a project in one of the open source communities like sourceforge put some high level specs and see whether any one will be interested in joining you." This is a rather persistent myth about Open Source. It's entirely fiction. If you post a working version to sf.net, you'll probably get a few bug reports and a few questions. If you work on it for a year, and do something really valuable to a lot of people, you'll see a few patches. If you work on it for another year, and continue to add value for a large technical audience, you may have a few parties who are interested in joining the project in a serious way. Open Source software does not spring into existence. Nearly every project has one (or more) extremely dedicated developers pushing it forward every day. A non-programmer wishing something into existence is not going to make anything happen. I promise.
joshwa 19y ago
An article posted to news.yc (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=58522 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=58522 ) mentioned working with an outsourcing/offshoring partner, and giving them equity in exchange for building the app. Have yet to find a good example of that really working for someone...
rickcecil 19y ago
Being in the same boat as you, I found the following to be worthwhile 1) Evaluate yourself and the skills you bring to the table. It's all in how you sell yourself. Even though I can't program, I understand experience design, business, visual design, and can get my hands dirty with some HTML and CSS. 2) Network locally. You're probably not going to find anyone worth working with online. Especially if you start out: "I have a great idea, but can't code. Wanna help?" 3) Be open to new ideas; people generally want to participate in the idea construction and product design. They don't want to pick up something that's been thought completely through. 4) Be willing to plunk down some cash. Get a tech lead for your project who can manage people you pay to build your system. If it's simple enough, you can build a decent app for less than $10K.
- sbraford 19y ago
  Excellent points. Especially on #3 -- so few people I've talked to are open to working on ideas other than their own flushed out ones. "Co-founding" is more than just splitting the stock pie. It's about coming up with the vision & direction for the company, which can't be done if one person has already done that for himself.
ecuzzillo 19y ago
This is a bit like saying "I have a great idea for a painting. Will you paint it for me, and then give me half the money you get from selling it?"
- stillmotion 19y ago
  Sounds like Andy Warhol.
  - deleted 19y ago
    [deleted]
  - jamiequint 19y ago
    or Dale Chihuly (see http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html)
- run4yourlives 19y ago
  Your analogy is apt. What you (like a lot of programmers) fail to realize is that selling a painting is extraordinarily difficult. They didn't coin the phrase "starving artist" for fun.
  - Shooter 19y ago
    Why can't I upmod run4yourlives on this? There are no mod arrows on his comment?
    - run4yourlives 19y ago
      Maybe you already did?
      - Shooter 19y ago
        Maybe. (Damn you, short attention span.)
        19y ago
Goladus 19y ago
Plan out exactly what you want for the web app on paper, and be as precise and consistent as possible. Then pick a language and set up a development environment. (A difficult step to get past, but you might be able to get someone to help you do this for free) Then start reading tutorials and doing practice examples. Once you have a feel for how to get a basic app up and running, go back to the specs you wrote earlier and identify some subset that you want to implement. Begin implementing your idea until you get stuck. When you get stuck, research the language tools you need to get unstuck. If you find yourself hopelessly lost, either pick a different subset of your app to work on, or go back to reading textbooks, tutorials, and forums until you better understand the concepts. http://www.paulgraham.com/pfaq.html http://www.paulgraham.com/pfaq.html
henning 19y ago
It might turn out it's not such a great idea at the current time after all because as a non-programmer you think too vaguely and declaratively. This isn't anything personal about you, it's just human nature. Writing code forces you to think precisely and consider practicalities that are otherwise hidden from you as a user.
- centipede 19y ago
  Yes. Programming languages are only starting to get more declarative.
- run4yourlives 19y ago
  >because as a non-programmer you think too vaguely and declaratively. Youch. That's a painful trap of circular logic to fall into. Keep in mind that most businesses have been started by non-programmers.
  - SwellJoe 19y ago
    "Keep in mind that most businesses have been started by non-programmers." We're talking about web technology businesses here, I presume. Otherwise OP wouldn't be trying to round up a programmer. The vast, vast, vast majority of web application startups are started by technical founders. Even the exceptions tend to bring some technical know-how to the endeavor (Digg, MySpace are examples of the non-programming founder, and they're the only two successful startups that meet that criterion I can think of off-hand). Non-technical founders can create value. But that's hard to prove in the initial "Hi, do you wanna start a company?" phase. That's why he's not getting much traction from developers he talks to.
augustus 19y ago
The fact that you don't know programming is no big deal. Being a programmer for over 12 years and looking forward to my next startup, what I can tell you is that ideas do matter. Consider this.The same amount of time that Google spend building a billion dollar startup is what a two bit outfit spends generating a million dollars. Or another that goes belly up. In other words ideas and execution equally matter. Maybe execution is a little more important. That's why Oracle dominates database software although initially there were multiple database startups (same idea). A recent survey of forbes billionaires confirmed this. Many of them picked ideas over execution others picked execution.It all depends on the situation. In any case, you can try building a prototype by using freelance sites such as guru.com or elance and then see what response you get from your target customers. I think it is important to get feedback from would be paying customers. If it is positive then go for it. -Augustus
- run4yourlives 19y ago
  Do you by chance have a link to the Forbes study in question?
  - byrneseyeview 19y ago
    http://www.forbes.com/2006/09/20/ent-manage_biz_06rich400_self_made_entrepreneurs_lander.html http://www.forbes.com/2006/09/20/ent-manage_biz_06rich400_se... Don't miss it.
- ardit33 19y ago
  That's complete bullsh!t. It is execution that matters. Ideas are a dime a dozen. What google did was excellent execution of an non-original idea (there were lots of search engines at that time). Look at the UConnect vs. Facebook. vs. that other dude that that the same idea. Facebook was able to execute much faster and better and got traction, while Uconnect is just crap, and they have to resort to lawsuits. Sure, if your idea is dumb to begin with, then no matter how good the execution is, you wont get anything out of it. But you still can change ideas and business plans around, and from a loser make a winner offering. (many startups end up changing their ideas business models at some point, including the company I am working for). If your execution team still sucks, your products will show it, and the next guy that likes idea, will copy it, and make a much better version of what you are offering. (just like Friendster got hosed by poor execution). But it is a common trait from "Business" people that think ideas matter more. It is more of a whishful thinking. Honestly being good at business is nothing more that having a good common sense and street smarts, and knowing how to B.S. a little. Things that no school teaches you. So my advice, learn how to build websites (as a programmer I'd like to concetrate on the harder stuff), do everything you can help the whole team, (from marketing, getting graphics, building mock-ups or prototypes) etc.. While you don't have to program, you better have some good technical skills, and really understand what's going on and how hard or easy is to do some stuff. One thing that is very annoying, is how non-technical people think it is sooooo easy to just have an ajax drop down, or that little thing here, that little thing there, without having the slightly idea how much work it really takes.
rkabir 19y ago
might be the obvious question here - but do you have any friends? (that have programming knowledge). My non-hacker buddies come to me with ideas all the time.
- thehigherlife 19y ago
  yeah, i do the problem is i am more of a techie computer guy as in my skills in the computer industry are more troubleshooting based ie, if it is broken in some way be it cabling issue or DHCP server, i can fix it, not programming based, a lot of my friends who would be interested in this are so busy with school and things of that nature that they don't really have time to be completely involved in a project.
german 19y ago
If it is a webapp, the first thing that you should read is about HTML and CSS, then Javascript. Then start with Python.
fauigerzigerk 19y ago
Ideas DO matter if you define "idea" as knowledge about what a particular group of people needs. It's not just about one isolated idea of course. That kind of idea is indeed worthless. It's about your ability to make good judgements within a particular application context. If you have that kind of knowledge and you are able to communicate with users then please please don't waste your time learning to program. If you have no special knowledge about a particular user community or industry then you should learn to program.
yaacovtp 19y ago
I did too! Found a partner who can program and we're well on our way.
white 19y ago
Find a partner. Like me.
Kaizyn 19y ago
Solution 1: Higher cost, shorter turn around time. Spend the money to hire several programmers to implement your ideas for you. However, keep in mind that you should become technically proficient enough to communicate with and monitor the programmers. Otherwise, they're apt to take advantage of you. Solution 2: Low cost. Long turnaround time. Start learning now how to program and build the web startup yourself. The biggest drawback with this option is that there's more to learn to correctly build a web application than to build a more traditional desktop program. It could take you six months before you've got a comfortable enough grasp of web programming to make progress on building your program. Although if it can be built as a Facebook widget or on top of existing services like those offered by Amazon, that may cut down on overall development time. Solution 3: Higher cost than #2 but much lower than #1. Turnaround time would also be somewhere in the middle between #1 and #2. Partner with a friend of yours who also knows how to program. This way, if you decide to learn how to program you have someone right there to help you. You also have the option of dividing the work where you handle the business side and let your partner(s) handle the technical end.

32 points by thehigherlife 19y ago

I don't know how you can find a good hacker, because there is no way for you to judge one. That aside, your best bet is to offer a lot of equity in the startup. More than half of the company. Your biggest selling point is that you will take care of all the stuff that annoys hackers - designing UI screens, marketing, face time with real users. If your idea is good, you offer more than 50% equity, and take care of the non technical work, you are providing a pretty good deal. What you have to remember is that, as a non-hacker, you should feel lucky to be in the game at all. There are only two things startups REALLY need - money and hackers. If you don't bring one of those items, it's hard to make a case for being the major stakeholder.

bmaier 19y ago
I think this is a bit unfair to the OP. Yes hackers are important but sometimes we tend to make ourselves want to feel too important. There's nothing stopping this kid from at least making a mockup. If he's going to hackers with just an idea that's his major problem. Show the hacker something tangible and he's more likely to get a partner.
augy 19y ago
do people design UI screens with Adobe?
- johnrob 19y ago
  In my opinion, you can design UI with anything visual - even pen and paper.
- chaostheory 19y ago
  using my past life as a web designer - yes, specifically with Illustrator
Kaizyn 19y ago
This seems silly. The guy with the big idea should be handing out peanuts to the code monkeys, not giving them all of his cash. Knowing exactly what the web system should do is far more important than a few programming skills (you can replace the code monkey more easily than you can a good startup idea).
- rms 19y ago
  The whole thing still only works when the big idea guy has money.

aston 19y ago

Well, you should find someone to execute on it. A good first step would be posting it somewhere where hackers are known to roam so that you can get feedback and find potential partners. Like here, for example.

thehigherlife 19y ago
It's hard, because you don't want to just let you plan out there in the open and have someone take it right out from under you.
- queensnake 19y ago
  Indeed. Google for 'Non-disclosure Agreements'. But, probably you're better off learning to code, even if you do get a partner. And I agree that Python is a good language to start with.
  - thehigherlife 19y ago
    so then i guess the next question is, anyone interested in signing a non-disclosure agreement and working on a pretty cool idea for a web app?
    - pbnaidu 19y ago
      I would be interested in signing, please email me if you're interested.
      - thehigherlife 19y ago
        e-mail addy?
        alaskamiller 19y ago
        alaska.miller@gmail.com
        19y ago

kyro 19y ago

If you're not planning on paying, and want to create a team, you'd better learn how to program. I was in your same position several months ago. I tried looking for programmers, and those that I found were turned off by the fact that I had no programming knowledge/experience. So, I got fed up and decided to learn how to program. I started with Python, dabbled in some SQL, and am currently trying to refine my Django skills. Time, dedication, and documentation is all it really required. It's not that bad.

thehigherlife 19y ago
Are there books you suggest i read, or tutorials to start with?
- kyro 19y ago
  Yeah. For Python: http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.diveintopython.org/ http://www.diveintopython.org/ I also read the O'Reilly book on Python - 'Programming Python' There's Python.org for all docs, of course. For Django - http://www.djangoproject.com http://www.djangoproject.com - they have a cool tutorial on the front page, and http://www.djangobook.com http://www.djangobook.com, then move to the documentation from djangoproject.
- henning 19y ago
  Even though getting started with PHP and MySQL is easy, please avoid the temptation as it will brain-damage you in ways that will take a long time to recover from.
  - SwellJoe 19y ago
    I tend to agree with this (PHP is perhaps my least favorite language outside of C#/Java). But there is some really good PHP code out there. The problem is finding it--particularly for a non-programmer. DokuWiki is very nice. Flyspray aint even half bad. Wordpress, while extraordinarily popular, is a bit painful to look at...it's getting better, but it's not ideal to learn from (I'm not knocking Wordpress...I use it for two blogs and recommend it to everyone who asks about blogging software). The majority of Joomla is downright scary bad--I feel dumber every day that I spend working with it.

jgrahamc 19y ago

Is that you, Kevin Rose? John.

thehigherlife 19y ago
nope.
henning 19y ago
to the OP: make sure your CAPTCHAs don't suck as bad as digg's, which can be preprocessed and ready for segmentation/recognition in three lines of code.

axod 19y ago

ideas are easy. Executing them is harder.

imsteve 19y ago
for sufficiently vague definitions of "idea".
- Shooter 19y ago
  [for sufficiently vague definitions of "idea"] Upmodded. That is brilliant. As an entrepreneur, I have very specific thoughts on what constitutes a "good idea for a business." To me, it suggests that you have four things: 1. a keen insight into what a group of people (with money) want 2. you have a means of delivering a solution to those needy people 3. you have a way of targeting those needy people to let them know about your solution 4. you can deliver your solution at a profit. When I started investing in startups, I learned that my definition of a good idea for a business differs GREATLY from what many are willing to pitch to me as a good idea. Many people are willing to pitch a very nebulous 'idea.' There are also certain ideas prevalent in the startup community now that are MOSTLY or SOMETIMES true, but that I think people take too literally or misunderstand. "Ideas are worthless, execution is paramount." Look, if you have a truly great idea...execution becomes much less important. With a great idea (which implies an actual business model), you can make quite a few execution mistakes and still end up with a great business. If you stumble, investors are more forgiving and will usually find the help you need in the execution area. "Your final business is almost always different than what you initially intended to do" is another startup cliche that I think some entrepreneurs sometimes take too literally. This pearl of wisdom is basically telling you that you need to be flexible. Being flexible is very different that attacking an industry because it is hot and hoping something shakes out. "Get the users and figure out a profit model later. It is easy to monetize millions of eyeballs." Again, this may be mostly true for a certain class of business...but it can also be a ticket to FAIL. With apologies to Mrs. Robinson, I'm actually getting pitches like this: Entrepreneur: "I have a GREAT idea!" Me: "Yes?" Entrepreneur: "Plastics!!!" Me: "What do you mean 'plastics'?" Entrepreneur: "They're gonna be huge. Plastics are the future." Me: "What is your actual idea? How are you going to make money?" Entrepreneur: "Advertising?"

neo 19y ago

Get an NDA with anyone you work with. "Ideas are easy, execution is hard" is a cop-out excuse by people who don't have any patentable worthwhile ideas of their own!

jamiequint 19y ago
ideas aren't patentable
- Jd 19y ago
  For better or worse, this is incorrect.
- brlewis 19y ago
  In the theoretical law where statute is obeyed and Supreme Court precedents are followed, you're absolutely right. For the actual law that happens to you when you go to court, you should consult a lawyer.
- Shooter 19y ago
  "ideas aren't patentable" That's true, but business methods and certain software implementations of novel ideas are patentable...at least in the US. I've found that truly good ideas are easily translated into one or both of these. The problem is, most people have "me too" ideas. All philosophical arguments aside, the patent system can be an entrepreneur's best friend. Yes, the system is heavily abused. I personally don't believe in software patents. But I damn sure use them. Color me hypocritical.
deleted 19y ago
[deleted]
pg 19y ago
"Ideas are easy, execution is hard" is a cop-out excuse by people who don't have any patentable worthwhile ideas I have a lot of ideas. Some are worthwhile. And yet I think execution is the hard part.
- 19y ago

dorait 19y ago

There are several ways you can go about this: 1. Create a simple prototype that demonstrates the core ideas of the concept and show it to a few people (you trust). You may be able to attract some good developers if it appeals to them. 2. Start a blog and talk about how your idea may benefit some potential customers. See whether any one shows interest. 3. Go to one of the startup meet ups (www.meetup.com) in your area and informally discuss it or present it to the group. 4. You may not need to build the entire software. Most of the good developers know how to reuse existing software (libraries) to quickly build a version 1 of the product. 5. Try a few interns from your local computer school and let them build the first version of the product. Let a few friends try it out. If there is enough interest, you may be able to find some supporters in funding it or developers interested in developing it further. 6. You can start a project in one of the open source communities like sourceforge put some high level specs and see whether any one will be interested in joining you. 7. If you strongly believe in the idea and do not want to go open source, prepare a simple plan and approach some angels. Many angel investors may also have a good rolodex of development resources. I think having a good idea for a great app is cool. But you need to go to the next step of prototyping or let others visualize it so that you can get some reactions. This will help improve the idea and also hear if such an idea is already implemented somewhere else.

SwellJoe 19y ago
"6. You can start a project in one of the open source communities like sourceforge put some high level specs and see whether any one will be interested in joining you." This is a rather persistent myth about Open Source. It's entirely fiction. If you post a working version to sf.net, you'll probably get a few bug reports and a few questions. If you work on it for a year, and do something really valuable to a lot of people, you'll see a few patches. If you work on it for another year, and continue to add value for a large technical audience, you may have a few parties who are interested in joining the project in a serious way. Open Source software does not spring into existence. Nearly every project has one (or more) extremely dedicated developers pushing it forward every day. A non-programmer wishing something into existence is not going to make anything happen. I promise.

joshwa 19y ago

An article posted to news.yc (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=58522 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=58522 ) mentioned working with an outsourcing/offshoring partner, and giving them equity in exchange for building the app. Have yet to find a good example of that really working for someone...

rickcecil 19y ago

Being in the same boat as you, I found the following to be worthwhile 1) Evaluate yourself and the skills you bring to the table. It's all in how you sell yourself. Even though I can't program, I understand experience design, business, visual design, and can get my hands dirty with some HTML and CSS. 2) Network locally. You're probably not going to find anyone worth working with online. Especially if you start out: "I have a great idea, but can't code. Wanna help?" 3) Be open to new ideas; people generally want to participate in the idea construction and product design. They don't want to pick up something that's been thought completely through. 4) Be willing to plunk down some cash. Get a tech lead for your project who can manage people you pay to build your system. If it's simple enough, you can build a decent app for less than $10K.

sbraford 19y ago
Excellent points. Especially on #3 -- so few people I've talked to are open to working on ideas other than their own flushed out ones. "Co-founding" is more than just splitting the stock pie. It's about coming up with the vision & direction for the company, which can't be done if one person has already done that for himself.

ecuzzillo 19y ago

This is a bit like saying "I have a great idea for a painting. Will you paint it for me, and then give me half the money you get from selling it?"

stillmotion 19y ago
Sounds like Andy Warhol.
- deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]
- jamiequint 19y ago
  or Dale Chihuly (see http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html)
run4yourlives 19y ago
Your analogy is apt. What you (like a lot of programmers) fail to realize is that selling a painting is extraordinarily difficult. They didn't coin the phrase "starving artist" for fun.
- Shooter 19y ago
  Why can't I upmod run4yourlives on this? There are no mod arrows on his comment?
  - run4yourlives 19y ago
    Maybe you already did?
    - Shooter 19y ago
      Maybe. (Damn you, short attention span.)
      - 19y ago

Goladus 19y ago

Plan out exactly what you want for the web app on paper, and be as precise and consistent as possible. Then pick a language and set up a development environment. (A difficult step to get past, but you might be able to get someone to help you do this for free) Then start reading tutorials and doing practice examples. Once you have a feel for how to get a basic app up and running, go back to the specs you wrote earlier and identify some subset that you want to implement. Begin implementing your idea until you get stuck. When you get stuck, research the language tools you need to get unstuck. If you find yourself hopelessly lost, either pick a different subset of your app to work on, or go back to reading textbooks, tutorials, and forums until you better understand the concepts. http://www.paulgraham.com/pfaq.html http://www.paulgraham.com/pfaq.html

henning 19y ago

It might turn out it's not such a great idea at the current time after all because as a non-programmer you think too vaguely and declaratively. This isn't anything personal about you, it's just human nature. Writing code forces you to think precisely and consider practicalities that are otherwise hidden from you as a user.

centipede 19y ago
Yes. Programming languages are only starting to get more declarative.
run4yourlives 19y ago
>because as a non-programmer you think too vaguely and declaratively. Youch. That's a painful trap of circular logic to fall into. Keep in mind that most businesses have been started by non-programmers.
- SwellJoe 19y ago
  "Keep in mind that most businesses have been started by non-programmers." We're talking about web technology businesses here, I presume. Otherwise OP wouldn't be trying to round up a programmer. The vast, vast, vast majority of web application startups are started by technical founders. Even the exceptions tend to bring some technical know-how to the endeavor (Digg, MySpace are examples of the non-programming founder, and they're the only two successful startups that meet that criterion I can think of off-hand). Non-technical founders can create value. But that's hard to prove in the initial "Hi, do you wanna start a company?" phase. That's why he's not getting much traction from developers he talks to.

augustus 19y ago

The fact that you don't know programming is no big deal. Being a programmer for over 12 years and looking forward to my next startup, what I can tell you is that ideas do matter. Consider this.The same amount of time that Google spend building a billion dollar startup is what a two bit outfit spends generating a million dollars. Or another that goes belly up. In other words ideas and execution equally matter. Maybe execution is a little more important. That's why Oracle dominates database software although initially there were multiple database startups (same idea). A recent survey of forbes billionaires confirmed this. Many of them picked ideas over execution others picked execution.It all depends on the situation. In any case, you can try building a prototype by using freelance sites such as guru.com or elance and then see what response you get from your target customers. I think it is important to get feedback from would be paying customers. If it is positive then go for it. -Augustus

run4yourlives 19y ago
Do you by chance have a link to the Forbes study in question?
- byrneseyeview 19y ago
  http://www.forbes.com/2006/09/20/ent-manage_biz_06rich400_self_made_entrepreneurs_lander.html http://www.forbes.com/2006/09/20/ent-manage_biz_06rich400_se... Don't miss it.
ardit33 19y ago
That's complete bullsh!t. It is execution that matters. Ideas are a dime a dozen. What google did was excellent execution of an non-original idea (there were lots of search engines at that time). Look at the UConnect vs. Facebook. vs. that other dude that that the same idea. Facebook was able to execute much faster and better and got traction, while Uconnect is just crap, and they have to resort to lawsuits. Sure, if your idea is dumb to begin with, then no matter how good the execution is, you wont get anything out of it. But you still can change ideas and business plans around, and from a loser make a winner offering. (many startups end up changing their ideas business models at some point, including the company I am working for). If your execution team still sucks, your products will show it, and the next guy that likes idea, will copy it, and make a much better version of what you are offering. (just like Friendster got hosed by poor execution). But it is a common trait from "Business" people that think ideas matter more. It is more of a whishful thinking. Honestly being good at business is nothing more that having a good common sense and street smarts, and knowing how to B.S. a little. Things that no school teaches you. So my advice, learn how to build websites (as a programmer I'd like to concetrate on the harder stuff), do everything you can help the whole team, (from marketing, getting graphics, building mock-ups or prototypes) etc.. While you don't have to program, you better have some good technical skills, and really understand what's going on and how hard or easy is to do some stuff. One thing that is very annoying, is how non-technical people think it is sooooo easy to just have an ajax drop down, or that little thing here, that little thing there, without having the slightly idea how much work it really takes.

rkabir 19y ago

might be the obvious question here - but do you have any friends? (that have programming knowledge). My non-hacker buddies come to me with ideas all the time.

thehigherlife 19y ago
yeah, i do the problem is i am more of a techie computer guy as in my skills in the computer industry are more troubleshooting based ie, if it is broken in some way be it cabling issue or DHCP server, i can fix it, not programming based, a lot of my friends who would be interested in this are so busy with school and things of that nature that they don't really have time to be completely involved in a project.

german 19y ago

If it is a webapp, the first thing that you should read is about HTML and CSS, then Javascript. Then start with Python.

fauigerzigerk 19y ago

Ideas DO matter if you define "idea" as knowledge about what a particular group of people needs. It's not just about one isolated idea of course. That kind of idea is indeed worthless. It's about your ability to make good judgements within a particular application context. If you have that kind of knowledge and you are able to communicate with users then please please don't waste your time learning to program. If you have no special knowledge about a particular user community or industry then you should learn to program.

yaacovtp 19y ago

I did too! Found a partner who can program and we're well on our way.

white 19y ago

Find a partner. Like me.

Kaizyn 19y ago

Solution 1: Higher cost, shorter turn around time. Spend the money to hire several programmers to implement your ideas for you. However, keep in mind that you should become technically proficient enough to communicate with and monitor the programmers. Otherwise, they're apt to take advantage of you. Solution 2: Low cost. Long turnaround time. Start learning now how to program and build the web startup yourself. The biggest drawback with this option is that there's more to learn to correctly build a web application than to build a more traditional desktop program. It could take you six months before you've got a comfortable enough grasp of web programming to make progress on building your program. Although if it can be built as a Facebook widget or on top of existing services like those offered by Amazon, that may cut down on overall development time. Solution 3: Higher cost than #2 but much lower than #1. Turnaround time would also be somewhere in the middle between #1 and #2. Partner with a friend of yours who also knows how to program. This way, if you decide to learn how to program you have someone right there to help you. You also have the option of dividing the work where you handle the business side and let your partner(s) handle the technical end.