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Fourth point about Hong Kong being under China probably has a significant effect that public cannot know about to full extent. It's not a outright conspiracy t

by jsnk 13y ago

Fourth point about Hong Kong being under China probably has a significant effect that public cannot know about to full extent. It's not a outright conspiracy to believe that there's a largely hidden but real power struggle between US and China. China probably likes the fact that Snowden has brought NSA and US government into public scrutiny and they are probably plotting a way to make the best out of it.

gbog 13y ago
I don't think so. China has so many problems, it's government always preferred the status quo, anything new like this is considered a threat to political stability: imagine if a few Chinese decided to go Snowden way?
- pyre 13y ago
  It can be spun other ways too. Snowden could be heralded as "proof" that China is better than the US. "US citizen flees oppressive government, seeking refuge in China." I'm sure that this incident will also enter the lexicon of North Korea when they try to bring up the bad things that US has/may have done in order to justify their own actions.
  - gbog 13y ago
    Do you think that Chinese are that stupid? They all know their wealthy elite send kids and wife to the US, why would they do that if China was better?
    - pyre 13y ago
      The way that I understand it, a lot of the propaganda that the Chinese see in the media is known to be propaganda (i.e. it's not fooling anyone). Why would this be any different?
- adventured 13y ago
  China can and does easily suppress dissent. They love opportunities to jab back at the US regarding human rights issues. That's worth a lot more than the very very very small risk that Snowden presents toward inspiring emulators.
  - gbog 13y ago
    > China can and does easily suppress dissent. Why do you feel the need to add "easily"? It is not easy at all. Some dissident like the artist Ai Weiwei recently are playing all the time with the sensitive nerves of the regime but he managed to make himself famous enough, and to never crosses the red line too far as to get "suppressed". For instance, there is this picture of him giving the finger to Mao in Tiananmen square, but it is labelled "art". With these guys trying the system all the time and the highly reactive web sphere, suppressing dissent is far from an "easy" job.
    - glurgh 13y ago
      How is it not easy? For every Ai Weiwei whose fame gives him some protection (and who still ends up getting harassed and put under house arrest) there are many Li Wangyangs http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/world/asia/chinese-activist-li-wangyang-death-called-suicide-but-supporters-are-suspicious.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/world/asia/chinese-activis... They don't seem to have had much trouble at all keeping him in jail for 22 years from where he probably didn't get to do a lot of public dissenting.
      - gbog 13y ago
        What I meant is that, against the cliche, Chinese people are not easy to control, because they have a very long experience gaming the rules and enjoy this sport. In this sense they resemble the French more than the Japanese.
        glurgh 13y ago
        Is this a cliche you've actually encountered? I have a hard time imagining anyone actually believes such a ridiculous generalization. Although if you worry about such things, you probably want to give a second thought about how you generalize about others, be they French or Japanese.
- mhartl 13y ago
  *its government

by jsnk 13y ago

gbog 13y ago

I don't think so. China has so many problems, it's government always preferred the status quo, anything new like this is considered a threat to political stability: imagine if a few Chinese decided to go Snowden way?

pyre 13y ago
It can be spun other ways too. Snowden could be heralded as "proof" that China is better than the US. "US citizen flees oppressive government, seeking refuge in China." I'm sure that this incident will also enter the lexicon of North Korea when they try to bring up the bad things that US has/may have done in order to justify their own actions.
- gbog 13y ago
  Do you think that Chinese are that stupid? They all know their wealthy elite send kids and wife to the US, why would they do that if China was better?
  - pyre 13y ago
    The way that I understand it, a lot of the propaganda that the Chinese see in the media is known to be propaganda (i.e. it's not fooling anyone). Why would this be any different?
adventured 13y ago
China can and does easily suppress dissent. They love opportunities to jab back at the US regarding human rights issues. That's worth a lot more than the very very very small risk that Snowden presents toward inspiring emulators.
- gbog 13y ago
  > China can and does easily suppress dissent. Why do you feel the need to add "easily"? It is not easy at all. Some dissident like the artist Ai Weiwei recently are playing all the time with the sensitive nerves of the regime but he managed to make himself famous enough, and to never crosses the red line too far as to get "suppressed". For instance, there is this picture of him giving the finger to Mao in Tiananmen square, but it is labelled "art". With these guys trying the system all the time and the highly reactive web sphere, suppressing dissent is far from an "easy" job.
  - glurgh 13y ago
    How is it not easy? For every Ai Weiwei whose fame gives him some protection (and who still ends up getting harassed and put under house arrest) there are many Li Wangyangs http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/world/asia/chinese-activist-li-wangyang-death-called-suicide-but-supporters-are-suspicious.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/world/asia/chinese-activis... They don't seem to have had much trouble at all keeping him in jail for 22 years from where he probably didn't get to do a lot of public dissenting.
    - gbog 13y ago
      What I meant is that, against the cliche, Chinese people are not easy to control, because they have a very long experience gaming the rules and enjoy this sport. In this sense they resemble the French more than the Japanese.
      - glurgh 13y ago
        Is this a cliche you've actually encountered? I have a hard time imagining anyone actually believes such a ridiculous generalization. Although if you worry about such things, you probably want to give a second thought about how you generalize about others, be they French or Japanese.
mhartl 13y ago
*its government