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You think the average computer user rarely approaches the limits imposed by proprietary software? You must have never met someone who: * Wanted to rip a video

You think the average computer user rarely approaches the limits imposed by proprietary software? You must have never met someone who: * Wanted to rip a video DVD * Wanted to copy songs from one iPod to another * Wanted to use Remote Desktop while another user is logged in * Tried to deal with HDCP problems between a cable receiver and television These are all software problems, all imposed by artificial restrictions, and all violations of Freedom 0. You seem to think Freedom 0 is about technical competence; yet weak technical skills are what proprietary software vendors take advantage of when they impose these sorts of restrictions.

TeMPOraL 13y ago
> These are all software problems, all imposed by artificial restrictions, and all violations of Freedom 0. Those problems can not be separated out and analyzed independently like this. > Wanted to rip a video DVD > Wanted to copy songs from one iPod to another Without those two limitations you wouldn't have either DVDs and iPods, as the economics of these technologies wouldn't made sense for companies which created them. > Wanted to use Remote Desktop while another user is logged in This sound like an accidental technical limitation. > Tried to deal with HDCP problems between a cable receiver and television This is, again, the limit that allows you to have those movies in the first place. I'm all for the open source and Freedom 0, but please don't forget that it's not about Freedom 0 being violated or not. It's about it being violated or not having anything at all.
- betterunix 13y ago
  First, to clarify, the remote desktop limitation was never accidental. It was a deliberate obstruction built into Windows XP that was meant to stop people from using the OS as a multiuser server. It is no different from Maltab contacting a license server to determine if there are too many people using the program at a time (as was the case at my undergrad university) or a parking garage refusing to release anyone's car because a license expired. The Windows Server version supported multiple simultaneous remote desktop sessions (with an artificial limit imposed by the software, that depended on the license; Windows XP Home/Professional simply had this limit hard-coded). I think you are lacking citations needed to prove your point that we would not have movie and music players if they were not deliberately restricted. There were digital music players prior to the iPod that were not so restricted. CDs never had any restrictions built in; what makes you think DVDs would never have happened without the restrictions? I know for a fact that you are wrong about HDCP, because the same cable receiver had HD component outputs that had no HDCP requirements. To put it another way, if people demanded Freedom 0, they would have it -- and there would still have been DVDs and iPods. The MPAA is not going to give up a multi-billion dollar market. They obviously want to restrict how people use their computers, because it increases their advantage in the market, but that market would not disappear if they did not have that increased advantage (if they only had all their other advantages). The same is true of the software market, the music industry, etc. It is not a choice between Freedom 0 and "some kind of empty void;" it is choice between Freedom 0, and not having Freedom 0, with everything else remaining largely the same.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  You seriously think that DVDs wouldn't exist if they couldn't have their little ROT-13? Well I don't think this is going to be a very fruitful conversation. Oh but while you're here how about you explain the popularity of DRM-free mp3 downloads :)
  - mavhc 13y ago
    That's why after DVDs encryption was cracked they stopped making DVDs
    - Jach 13y ago
      I thought that was because better formats came out... With no improvement on the 'encryption' end as far as I can tell, because I can find bluray rips for any movie that's come out on bluray.
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        He was being sarcastic. CSS (the pathetic 40-bit "encryption" used on DVDs) was cracked in 1999. Blu-ray wasn't commonplace until 8-10 years later. Blu-ray's AACS actually is much better than CSS ever was, and as far as I know it hasn't been attacked in either a brute-force or break-the-algorithm sense. But like all other DRM, there are inherent flaws it can't work around. You need only extract a player key and you can freely decrypt the data.

TeMPOraL 13y ago

> These are all software problems, all imposed by artificial restrictions, and all violations of Freedom 0. Those problems can not be separated out and analyzed independently like this. > Wanted to rip a video DVD > Wanted to copy songs from one iPod to another Without those two limitations you wouldn't have either DVDs and iPods, as the economics of these technologies wouldn't made sense for companies which created them. > Wanted to use Remote Desktop while another user is logged in This sound like an accidental technical limitation. > Tried to deal with HDCP problems between a cable receiver and television This is, again, the limit that allows you to have those movies in the first place. I'm all for the open source and Freedom 0, but please don't forget that it's not about Freedom 0 being violated or not. It's about it being violated or not having anything at all.

betterunix 13y ago
First, to clarify, the remote desktop limitation was never accidental. It was a deliberate obstruction built into Windows XP that was meant to stop people from using the OS as a multiuser server. It is no different from Maltab contacting a license server to determine if there are too many people using the program at a time (as was the case at my undergrad university) or a parking garage refusing to release anyone's car because a license expired. The Windows Server version supported multiple simultaneous remote desktop sessions (with an artificial limit imposed by the software, that depended on the license; Windows XP Home/Professional simply had this limit hard-coded). I think you are lacking citations needed to prove your point that we would not have movie and music players if they were not deliberately restricted. There were digital music players prior to the iPod that were not so restricted. CDs never had any restrictions built in; what makes you think DVDs would never have happened without the restrictions? I know for a fact that you are wrong about HDCP, because the same cable receiver had HD component outputs that had no HDCP requirements. To put it another way, if people demanded Freedom 0, they would have it -- and there would still have been DVDs and iPods. The MPAA is not going to give up a multi-billion dollar market. They obviously want to restrict how people use their computers, because it increases their advantage in the market, but that market would not disappear if they did not have that increased advantage (if they only had all their other advantages). The same is true of the software market, the music industry, etc. It is not a choice between Freedom 0 and "some kind of empty void;" it is choice between Freedom 0, and not having Freedom 0, with everything else remaining largely the same.
Dylan16807 13y ago
You seriously think that DVDs wouldn't exist if they couldn't have their little ROT-13? Well I don't think this is going to be a very fruitful conversation. Oh but while you're here how about you explain the popularity of DRM-free mp3 downloads :)
- mavhc 13y ago
  That's why after DVDs encryption was cracked they stopped making DVDs
  - Jach 13y ago
    I thought that was because better formats came out... With no improvement on the 'encryption' end as far as I can tell, because I can find bluray rips for any movie that's come out on bluray.
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      He was being sarcastic. CSS (the pathetic 40-bit "encryption" used on DVDs) was cracked in 1999. Blu-ray wasn't commonplace until 8-10 years later. Blu-ray's AACS actually is much better than CSS ever was, and as far as I know it hasn't been attacked in either a brute-force or break-the-algorithm sense. But like all other DRM, there are inherent flaws it can't work around. You need only extract a player key and you can freely decrypt the data.