9 ms·

This is disgusting. A news agency that is known for defending its own governments' dirty stuff, twisting truth, and manipulating public opinions, is now appreci

by songgao 13y ago

This is disgusting. A news agency that is known for defending its own governments' dirty stuff, twisting truth, and manipulating public opinions, is now appreciating a freedom fighter and a human rights activist. It's apparently not because what Snowden did matches their core values, or they want the same thing happen in China. Oh yes, they certainly like Snowden. It's because Snowden exposed some bad things done by US authorities, and they can use this as political tool; furthermore they can finally take this and say to Chinese people, hey, US does this too. You like the freedom in US? That's all bullshit. If you are interested in what their reactions were when this kind of thing happened in China, back in 2010, this [1] (google translate: [2]) was xinhuanet's opinion on Chinese human rights activist, Nobel Peace Prize recipient, Liu Xiaobo [3]. They described Liu Xiaobo as an evil man used by western countries to attack Chinese government, while the truth is Liu Xiaobo spent years striving for Chinese people's freedom, human rights, and constitution enforcement in China. Xinhuanet basically writes what the government tells them to write, and say what the government tells them to say. [1] http://news.xinhuanet.com/world/2010-10/15/c_12664760.htm http://news.xinhuanet.com/world/2010-10/15/c_12664760.htm [2] http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://news.xinhuanet.com/world/2010-10/15/c_12664760.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%2596%25B0%25E5%258D%258E%25E7%25BD%2591%2B%25E5%2588%2598%25E6%2599%2593%25E6%25B3%25A2%2Bsite:xinhuanet.com%26biw%3D1304%26bih%3D776 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http:... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiaobo#Nobel_Peace_Prize http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiaobo#Nobel_Peace_Prize EDIT: typos

joe_the_user 13y ago
A news agency that is known for defending its own governments' dirty stuff, twisting truth, and manipulating public opinions, is now appreciating a freedom fighter and a human rights activist. Oh indeed, like the New York Times, say? Obviously, the point isn't that China has democratic integrity. Rather, it is that China is happy to push the theme that the US is not looking that much better than China given this scandal. And that's good for everyone, in the sense that it keeps Snowden safe and it puts pressure on the US to really prove that it takes democracy and transparency seriously.
- songgao 13y ago
  I wouldn't trust China for a safe shelter. If you are used as a tool, you never know when it's gonna change.
  - jafaku 13y ago
    I wouldn't trust USA for a safe shelter. If you are used as a tool, you never know when it's gonna change.
    - wavefunction 13y ago
      don't be a tool then, is the lesson
  - gwgarry 13y ago
    Snowden's job is done. They will leave him alone as the US leaves alone dissidents once they have briefed the CIA and various other organizations and given testimony on how they have a secret, secret plan on the basis of which the US can start a war with the country.
justinschuh 13y ago
I'd say what Snowden is doing fits fits their core values and goals perfectly. He's spreading gross misinformation and propaganda that's damaging to the US government and major US based technology companies. The fact that he may be doing it out of well-intentioned ignorance rather than willfully doesn't strike me as a big sticking point from their perspective. [edit: I'm not surprised this is getting downmodded without any actual counterarguments. My comment is a bit too flippant, and the Snowden story really plays to the prevailing biases of the tech crowd. Still this whole episode does have me a little saddened by how otherwise intelligent people can behave so irrationally when something fits what they want to believe.]
- wavefunction 13y ago
  oh man...
- forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
  "He's spreading gross misinformation and propaganda that's damaging to the US government and major US based technology companies." It is not propaganda if it is true, like the members of congress have admitted. American companies and country own the world, they have power to abuse and they do. Is that hard to understand? Like any other Empire, they fall down over its own weight.
  - justinschuh 13y ago
    We already know the majority of his claims are not true, or are grossly misrepresented. The latest bit of noise is a congressman with no background on intelligence who misunderstood a briefing he received and just made an ass of himself in public. Just like all the other articles on this, we'll get corrections and clarifications over the next several days that basically amount to a retraction, but I expect that's not what you'll remember.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >I'd say what Snowden is doing fits fits their core values and goals perfectly. He's spreading gross misinformation and propaganda that's damaging to the US government and major US based technology companies. Err, what? Perhaps you haven't been following the news. Or 10,000 HN stories on this and related issues. As for it being "damaging US government and major US based technology companies", OK, I get what your priorities are...
olalonde 13y ago
> say what the government tells them to say. While it might be, this is not necessarily true. If Snowden were to win the Nobel peace prize, there would most likely be US newspapers describing him as an evil man and a traitor. The same newspapers would probably describe a Chinese whistleblower as a hero. All of that without government intervention. Just like in the US, a lot of people in China blindly support their government without having a gun pointed at their head. This might somehow be related to the Stockholm syndrom or simply a strong sense of nationalism.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 13y ago
>This is disgusting. A news agency that is known for defending its own governments' dirty stuff, twisting truth, and manipulating public opinions, is now appreciating a freedom fighter and a human rights activist. So, exactly like the major US news outlets, from the Times to the Post to CNN? It's very hard, as a European, to find any news coverage of world affairs in the US that doesn't subscribe to the official Washington party line (with small diversions, according to which of the two parties the outlet/author supports). >If you are interested in what their reactions were when this kind of thing happened in China, back in 2010, this [1] (google translate: [2]) was xinhuanet's opinion on Chinese human rights activist, Nobel Peace Prize recipient, Liu Xiaobo [3]. They described Liu Xiaobo as an evil man used by western countries to attack Chinese government, while the truth is Liu Xiaobo spent years striving for Chinese people's freedom, human rights, and constitution enforcement in China. So? There is a way to strive for your people's "freedom, human rights, and constitution enforcement" that's in accordance to your countries and your people's needs (even if your government hates it) AND there is another way to fight for "freedom, human rights, and constitution enforcement" that serves the agenda of foreign powers. The second way is mostly how you earn a "Nobel Prize" (which Obama also got, oh, the irony). It's difficult to convey the above distinction to an American, not because they can't understand it, but because they haven't experienced it. See, the US is a world leader, so there's not another country that can even think of using people to influence American politics, topple politicians, grab it's resources, etc. Things that happen all the time in smaller countries -- and more often than not, those people ("freedom fighters", etc) are agents of US foreign policy (or French, or UK, etc -- it's what's called neo-colonialism).
- tptacek 13y ago
  Unfortunately, the idea that you'd compare Xinhua to CNN says more about your biases than it does about Xinhua or CNN. Xinhua is an instrument of the Chinese state.
  - gasull 13y ago
    You are implying CNN isn't an instrument.
gwgarry 13y ago
Kettle, I mean American, meet pot, I mean Chinese.
SilasX 13y ago
Before anyone else does it, let me adapt the old joke: An American and Chinese businessman are talking about their respective governments. The American says, "See, you in China don't have the liberties that we do. Why, if someone exposed an unflattering truth about the US government, they would be lauded as heroes for standing up for our rights! You can't say that about your own country." The Chinese responds, "Not true, not true. If someone exposed unflattering truths about the US government, they would be very welcome here too!"

by songgao 13y ago

joe_the_user 13y ago

A news agency that is known for defending its own governments' dirty stuff, twisting truth, and manipulating public opinions, is now appreciating a freedom fighter and a human rights activist. Oh indeed, like the New York Times, say? Obviously, the point isn't that China has democratic integrity. Rather, it is that China is happy to push the theme that the US is not looking that much better than China given this scandal. And that's good for everyone, in the sense that it keeps Snowden safe and it puts pressure on the US to really prove that it takes democracy and transparency seriously.

songgao 13y ago
I wouldn't trust China for a safe shelter. If you are used as a tool, you never know when it's gonna change.
- jafaku 13y ago
  I wouldn't trust USA for a safe shelter. If you are used as a tool, you never know when it's gonna change.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    don't be a tool then, is the lesson
- gwgarry 13y ago
  Snowden's job is done. They will leave him alone as the US leaves alone dissidents once they have briefed the CIA and various other organizations and given testimony on how they have a secret, secret plan on the basis of which the US can start a war with the country.

justinschuh 13y ago

I'd say what Snowden is doing fits fits their core values and goals perfectly. He's spreading gross misinformation and propaganda that's damaging to the US government and major US based technology companies. The fact that he may be doing it out of well-intentioned ignorance rather than willfully doesn't strike me as a big sticking point from their perspective. [edit: I'm not surprised this is getting downmodded without any actual counterarguments. My comment is a bit too flippant, and the Snowden story really plays to the prevailing biases of the tech crowd. Still this whole episode does have me a little saddened by how otherwise intelligent people can behave so irrationally when something fits what they want to believe.]

wavefunction 13y ago
oh man...
forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
"He's spreading gross misinformation and propaganda that's damaging to the US government and major US based technology companies." It is not propaganda if it is true, like the members of congress have admitted. American companies and country own the world, they have power to abuse and they do. Is that hard to understand? Like any other Empire, they fall down over its own weight.
- justinschuh 13y ago
  We already know the majority of his claims are not true, or are grossly misrepresented. The latest bit of noise is a congressman with no background on intelligence who misunderstood a briefing he received and just made an ass of himself in public. Just like all the other articles on this, we'll get corrections and clarifications over the next several days that basically amount to a retraction, but I expect that's not what you'll remember.
coldtea 13y ago
>I'd say what Snowden is doing fits fits their core values and goals perfectly. He's spreading gross misinformation and propaganda that's damaging to the US government and major US based technology companies. Err, what? Perhaps you haven't been following the news. Or 10,000 HN stories on this and related issues. As for it being "damaging US government and major US based technology companies", OK, I get what your priorities are...

olalonde 13y ago

> say what the government tells them to say. While it might be, this is not necessarily true. If Snowden were to win the Nobel peace prize, there would most likely be US newspapers describing him as an evil man and a traitor. The same newspapers would probably describe a Chinese whistleblower as a hero. All of that without government intervention. Just like in the US, a lot of people in China blindly support their government without having a gun pointed at their head. This might somehow be related to the Stockholm syndrom or simply a strong sense of nationalism.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

coldtea 13y ago

>This is disgusting. A news agency that is known for defending its own governments' dirty stuff, twisting truth, and manipulating public opinions, is now appreciating a freedom fighter and a human rights activist. So, exactly like the major US news outlets, from the Times to the Post to CNN? It's very hard, as a European, to find any news coverage of world affairs in the US that doesn't subscribe to the official Washington party line (with small diversions, according to which of the two parties the outlet/author supports). >If you are interested in what their reactions were when this kind of thing happened in China, back in 2010, this [1] (google translate: [2]) was xinhuanet's opinion on Chinese human rights activist, Nobel Peace Prize recipient, Liu Xiaobo [3]. They described Liu Xiaobo as an evil man used by western countries to attack Chinese government, while the truth is Liu Xiaobo spent years striving for Chinese people's freedom, human rights, and constitution enforcement in China. So? There is a way to strive for your people's "freedom, human rights, and constitution enforcement" that's in accordance to your countries and your people's needs (even if your government hates it) AND there is another way to fight for "freedom, human rights, and constitution enforcement" that serves the agenda of foreign powers. The second way is mostly how you earn a "Nobel Prize" (which Obama also got, oh, the irony). It's difficult to convey the above distinction to an American, not because they can't understand it, but because they haven't experienced it. See, the US is a world leader, so there's not another country that can even think of using people to influence American politics, topple politicians, grab it's resources, etc. Things that happen all the time in smaller countries -- and more often than not, those people ("freedom fighters", etc) are agents of US foreign policy (or French, or UK, etc -- it's what's called neo-colonialism).

tptacek 13y ago
Unfortunately, the idea that you'd compare Xinhua to CNN says more about your biases than it does about Xinhua or CNN. Xinhua is an instrument of the Chinese state.
- gasull 13y ago
  You are implying CNN isn't an instrument.

gwgarry 13y ago

Kettle, I mean American, meet pot, I mean Chinese.

SilasX 13y ago

Before anyone else does it, let me adapt the old joke: An American and Chinese businessman are talking about their respective governments. The American says, "See, you in China don't have the liberties that we do. Why, if someone exposed an unflattering truth about the US government, they would be lauded as heroes for standing up for our rights! You can't say that about your own country." The Chinese responds, "Not true, not true. If someone exposed unflattering truths about the US government, they would be very welcome here too!"