9 ms·

Humans are wired to see a physical item (disks, etc.) and think mine. Well, yes, but you oversimplify. There is a long-established doctrine of first-sale in

Humans are wired to see a physical item (disks, etc.) and think *mine.* Well, yes, but you oversimplify. There is a long-established doctrine of first-sale in the US, and it's not just part of case law, it's part of the culture. The non-resaleability of Kindle books or anything else digital is still new to the popular mind, and carries with it a certain implicit devaluation. Even though most people at least abstractly understand the non-resaleability of bits (whether due to the infinite duplicability of DRM-free media, or the practical inflexibility of DRM systems), a big reason they don't complain about iPhone apps or Steam games is likely the frequently low prices they pay. A $60 game demands at least a bit of fungibility for most consumers. A $0.99 one doesn't, regardless of whether it came from a disc or an app store. If, as the supposed insider claims, XBO games can actually retail for half what a resale-friendly game would, then that offsets the implicit devaluation of non-resaleable media. If Call of Duty 8 retails for $59.99 on the PS4 and $29.99 on the XBO, that suddenly makes the DRM a very appealing tradeoff. If they're both $59.99, Xbox is dead in the water.

wtvanhest 13y ago
>If Call of Duty 8 retails for $59.99 on the PS4 and $29.99 on the XBO, that suddenly makes the DRM a very appealing tradeoff. If they're both $59.99, Xbox is dead in the water. Exactly, if MS had been thinking this all along, they could have proved it with a low price game option announced with the DRM. That would have been really appealing to a lot of people.
- sirclueless 13y ago
  That doesn't really work. The game is still supposed to be $60 at launch, that's when games make the most money, they really are worth that much (and more) as evidenced by the many people who pay that much for them, even on DRM-laden platforms like Steam. The point is to let the price fall faster after launch. Xbox can't exactly promise "Our games' prices will fall faster than the other guys" because the market will determine that -- in aggregate they will, but there's a reason Skyrim is still $30 on Steam. Microsoft wants a world where you have account-locked games tied to disks, because it gives them the benefits of Steam-like DRM but also the game conveniently on a disk to take to a friend's so he doesn't have to download it, and to let the poor schmuck in rural Nebraska with 25 kb/s to play the game some time in the next week. Honestly, Sony can take the same pricing strategies as Microsoft on their digital downloads -- Microsoft just wants to have more convenient digital downloads, while Sony just wants more convenient disks. My guess is that long-term Microsoft will prove to be on the right side of history (the success of Steam is evidence). Sony can probably do just fine for now, they can always transition in later generations when the downsides are no longer breaking news stories.
  - ensignavenger 13y ago
    The poor schmuck in rural Nebraska with 25kb service won't be able to play the Xbox One period- MS has already proposed a min speed of 1.5mbps. And if you are in an area (like pretty much most of the US and the majority of the rest of the world) where your service goes down periodically for more than 24 hours, you will be locked out of playing any games while it is offline. Or if MS gets hacked like Sony and their network goes down for an extended period (at least PS3 owners could still play offline!). Or when MS decides to abandon the platform ad turn off the servers... no pulling out your old Xbox One to play some classic games (I still have an old Atari I like to play occasionally!). Or if you have to cancel your Internet for a few months to catch up on the bills or while moving you have to wait a few days to get you Internet turned on- there are so many points of failure in this fiasco. As a (former) Xbox fan and advocate, I won't be going anywhere near this one.
    - rsync 13y ago
      You have elegantly and succinctly described "defective by design".
    - sigkill 13y ago
      >of 1.5mbps. Wow. There's this whole rest of the world that would kill to get that speeds. I'm confused as to why MS would try to alienate basically everyone not in NA, EU with that kind of a minimum requirement. People in Asia and Africa can pay up that kind of money for the console, but there aren't infrastructure to get you that kind of internet speeds in a budget.
      - gtirloni 13y ago
        There are PS1's being sold until today for people who can't afford the other version. My point is: I doubt XBOX360 will disappear. Got fast internet, crazy TV and can afford it? Get XBOX1. Your internet is really bad, XBOX360 just like always.
        dragontamer 13y ago
saidajigumi 13y ago
We'll see how the story plays out leading up to launch, but Amazon pre-orders for Destiny[1] are currently running $59 (give or take a few $) for all supported platforms (XBox One, XBox 360, PS4, PS3). [1] http://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Xbox-One/dp/B00CX9T598/ http://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Xbox-One/dp/B00CX9T598/
Kylekramer 13y ago
I dunno if price is really the issue. People pay much more for downloads of desktop software and at equal prices with the physical counterparts. You rarely see anyone arguing that they should be able to resell Photoshop or Word.
- tomkarlo 13y ago
  Those kind of apps don't have the same purchase cycle as entertainment items like games, movies or books. They don't grow less valuable the more hours you spend using them (in fact, they generally become more valuable the more you've invested in learning them.) Folks either want to rent entertainment , or buy it knowing they can resell it, because they know that the act of consumption will devalue that item for them but it will retain greater value for others who have not yet consumed its entertainment.
b3b0p 13y ago
The price doesn't concern me too much. With Steam I am in control of the hardware. I can build a new, faster, better PC at any time and still play my games. When Xbox Two comes out and they discontinue production of Xbox One what happens to my games? What happens when the servers are shut down? Are they stuck in the cloud or a computer recycling center someplace? When my Xbox One stops working (I'm sure it will) can I buy a used one on eBay, plug it in and continue to play my games? At least with my PC I can build a new one if it breaks. With my NES I don't need to rely on a server some where in a data center still operating. Also, I still have more faith in my NES lasting and working longer than any console put out in recent years, including the Xbox One (or any Playstation model) even though it's over 20 years old now.
- ameen 13y ago
  Your analogy doesn't really make sense. Your Xbox account is similar to a Steam account works on PC/360/One and you control the hardware if your One breaks, buy a new one and authenticate it with your account. All your games would now be accessible.
  - chrisbolt 13y ago
    The problem is that the One isn't backwards compatible with any of the 360 games I already bought and are stored in the cloud, which leads me to believe they'll do the same with the Two.
    - ewzimm 13y ago
      There's no way any of this will reasonably apply if we stick to this seven year cycle. By 2020, this will all be so obsolete, nobody will care about backward compatibility. Do you care that your PS4 is backward compatible with an abacus?
      - inportb 13y ago
        Do you care that your PS4 is backward compatible with an abacus? I find it handy that different iterations of abacuses tend to be cross-compatible. There may occasionally be minor architectural variations, but it usually isn't too difficult to port your abacus drivers.
pico303 13y ago
Totally agree that it's a completely different market, a $60 game vs. a $1 game, and anyone comparing digital iPhone and Android downloads to X1 downloads should stop. I will, however, guarantee we will never see $30 release-day games of the quality of GTA or COD. If anyone was willing to do that, they would have done it on Steam, XBox Live, or Playstation Store already--they all have DRM'd digital downloads, and it would immediately switch all of their users to that distribution platform. If I could buy GTA5 for $60 physical or $30 digital, there's no contest. If anything, my bet is some of the new games will be $69.99 for X1 and $59.99 for X360, justified by the additional graphics and "extra" content. See DVD vs. Blu-ray. The entire original post is wishful thinking from an engineer. As an engineer myself, the first thing I ever learned was that management, sales, and marketing aren't just blowing smoke at the public. The point of always on confirmation is to shut down used sales and stop piracy. That's it. There's no noble endeavor to save us from scratched disks. They love scratched disks; it means you have to buy another copy.
- pizza 13y ago
  CS:GO launched for $15 on Steam.
  - chii 13y ago
    unfortunatley, CS:GO is not a AAA, high production value game (think far cry 3). It is a multiplayer only game, and i m certain its production costs are vastly lower.
debian69 13y ago
Why disc ? The problem is downloading 50 gb a game is pretty impossible for most..
danzig13 13y ago
I don't see how the possibility of a revenue stream they have never depended on is going to encourage to decrease the price. I predict they will just take advantage of people's willingness to pay $60 and collect on it.

Humans are wired to see a physical item (disks, etc.) and think *mine.* Well, yes, but you oversimplify. There is a long-established doctrine of first-sale in

wtvanhest 13y ago

>If Call of Duty 8 retails for $59.99 on the PS4 and $29.99 on the XBO, that suddenly makes the DRM a very appealing tradeoff. If they're both $59.99, Xbox is dead in the water. Exactly, if MS had been thinking this all along, they could have proved it with a low price game option announced with the DRM. That would have been really appealing to a lot of people.

sirclueless 13y ago
That doesn't really work. The game is still supposed to be $60 at launch, that's when games make the most money, they really are worth that much (and more) as evidenced by the many people who pay that much for them, even on DRM-laden platforms like Steam. The point is to let the price fall faster after launch. Xbox can't exactly promise "Our games' prices will fall faster than the other guys" because the market will determine that -- in aggregate they will, but there's a reason Skyrim is still $30 on Steam. Microsoft wants a world where you have account-locked games tied to disks, because it gives them the benefits of Steam-like DRM but also the game conveniently on a disk to take to a friend's so he doesn't have to download it, and to let the poor schmuck in rural Nebraska with 25 kb/s to play the game some time in the next week. Honestly, Sony can take the same pricing strategies as Microsoft on their digital downloads -- Microsoft just wants to have more convenient digital downloads, while Sony just wants more convenient disks. My guess is that long-term Microsoft will prove to be on the right side of history (the success of Steam is evidence). Sony can probably do just fine for now, they can always transition in later generations when the downsides are no longer breaking news stories.
- ensignavenger 13y ago
  The poor schmuck in rural Nebraska with 25kb service won't be able to play the Xbox One period- MS has already proposed a min speed of 1.5mbps. And if you are in an area (like pretty much most of the US and the majority of the rest of the world) where your service goes down periodically for more than 24 hours, you will be locked out of playing any games while it is offline. Or if MS gets hacked like Sony and their network goes down for an extended period (at least PS3 owners could still play offline!). Or when MS decides to abandon the platform ad turn off the servers... no pulling out your old Xbox One to play some classic games (I still have an old Atari I like to play occasionally!). Or if you have to cancel your Internet for a few months to catch up on the bills or while moving you have to wait a few days to get you Internet turned on- there are so many points of failure in this fiasco. As a (former) Xbox fan and advocate, I won't be going anywhere near this one.
  - rsync 13y ago
    You have elegantly and succinctly described "defective by design".
  - sigkill 13y ago
    >of 1.5mbps. Wow. There's this whole rest of the world that would kill to get that speeds. I'm confused as to why MS would try to alienate basically everyone not in NA, EU with that kind of a minimum requirement. People in Asia and Africa can pay up that kind of money for the console, but there aren't infrastructure to get you that kind of internet speeds in a budget.
    - gtirloni 13y ago
      There are PS1's being sold until today for people who can't afford the other version. My point is: I doubt XBOX360 will disappear. Got fast internet, crazy TV and can afford it? Get XBOX1. Your internet is really bad, XBOX360 just like always.
      - dragontamer 13y ago

saidajigumi 13y ago

We'll see how the story plays out leading up to launch, but Amazon pre-orders for Destiny[1] are currently running $59 (give or take a few $) for all supported platforms (XBox One, XBox 360, PS4, PS3). [1] http://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Xbox-One/dp/B00CX9T598/ http://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Xbox-One/dp/B00CX9T598/

Kylekramer 13y ago

I dunno if price is really the issue. People pay much more for downloads of desktop software and at equal prices with the physical counterparts. You rarely see anyone arguing that they should be able to resell Photoshop or Word.

tomkarlo 13y ago
Those kind of apps don't have the same purchase cycle as entertainment items like games, movies or books. They don't grow less valuable the more hours you spend using them (in fact, they generally become more valuable the more you've invested in learning them.) Folks either want to rent entertainment , or buy it knowing they can resell it, because they know that the act of consumption will devalue that item for them but it will retain greater value for others who have not yet consumed its entertainment.

b3b0p 13y ago

The price doesn't concern me too much. With Steam I am in control of the hardware. I can build a new, faster, better PC at any time and still play my games. When Xbox Two comes out and they discontinue production of Xbox One what happens to my games? What happens when the servers are shut down? Are they stuck in the cloud or a computer recycling center someplace? When my Xbox One stops working (I'm sure it will) can I buy a used one on eBay, plug it in and continue to play my games? At least with my PC I can build a new one if it breaks. With my NES I don't need to rely on a server some where in a data center still operating. Also, I still have more faith in my NES lasting and working longer than any console put out in recent years, including the Xbox One (or any Playstation model) even though it's over 20 years old now.

ameen 13y ago
Your analogy doesn't really make sense. Your Xbox account is similar to a Steam account works on PC/360/One and you control the hardware if your One breaks, buy a new one and authenticate it with your account. All your games would now be accessible.
- chrisbolt 13y ago
  The problem is that the One isn't backwards compatible with any of the 360 games I already bought and are stored in the cloud, which leads me to believe they'll do the same with the Two.
  - ewzimm 13y ago
    There's no way any of this will reasonably apply if we stick to this seven year cycle. By 2020, this will all be so obsolete, nobody will care about backward compatibility. Do you care that your PS4 is backward compatible with an abacus?
    - inportb 13y ago
      Do you care that your PS4 is backward compatible with an abacus? I find it handy that different iterations of abacuses tend to be cross-compatible. There may occasionally be minor architectural variations, but it usually isn't too difficult to port your abacus drivers.

pico303 13y ago

Totally agree that it's a completely different market, a $60 game vs. a $1 game, and anyone comparing digital iPhone and Android downloads to X1 downloads should stop. I will, however, guarantee we will never see $30 release-day games of the quality of GTA or COD. If anyone was willing to do that, they would have done it on Steam, XBox Live, or Playstation Store already--they all have DRM'd digital downloads, and it would immediately switch all of their users to that distribution platform. If I could buy GTA5 for $60 physical or $30 digital, there's no contest. If anything, my bet is some of the new games will be $69.99 for X1 and $59.99 for X360, justified by the additional graphics and "extra" content. See DVD vs. Blu-ray. The entire original post is wishful thinking from an engineer. As an engineer myself, the first thing I ever learned was that management, sales, and marketing aren't just blowing smoke at the public. The point of always on confirmation is to shut down used sales and stop piracy. That's it. There's no noble endeavor to save us from scratched disks. They love scratched disks; it means you have to buy another copy.

pizza 13y ago
CS:GO launched for $15 on Steam.
- chii 13y ago
  unfortunatley, CS:GO is not a AAA, high production value game (think far cry 3). It is a multiplayer only game, and i m certain its production costs are vastly lower.

debian69 13y ago

Why disc ? The problem is downloading 50 gb a game is pretty impossible for most..

danzig13 13y ago

I don't see how the possibility of a revenue stream they have never depended on is going to encourage to decrease the price. I predict they will just take advantage of people's willingness to pay $60 and collect on it.