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The first think I think of when somebody (usually a developer trying to predict the future) says the file system is going away, is: So, without a file system,

by abruzzi 13y ago

The first think I think of when somebody (usually a developer trying to predict the future) says the file system is going away, is: So, without a file system, how do you organize the Linux kernel code? Or the WebKit code? The reality is the lack of a front facing file system (like iOS, even thou there is still a file system down there) would probably work for 80% of users, but what do the rest of us do? And the reality is that 20% are developers, music editors, video editors, enterprise, and similar types of users where not having the file system isn't an inconvenience, but a show stopper. I'm in that 20% for some of my uses, and I'll say that my #1 complaint about my ipad (which I love) is the lack of a file system.

macspoofing 13y ago
>So, without a file system, how do you organize the Linux kernel code? Or the WebKit code? He means the File System metaphor. There most certainly is a File System underpinning iPads and iPhones but the end-user need not know it even exists.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
One could build a development environment that was not dependent on a filesystem for code organization. Actually, its been done at least once with Smalltalk's class browser and persistent images. Also, music and video editors really only care about their content, not fancy directory structures. I've never wanted a filesystem for my ipad. What use would it be?
- aidenn0 13y ago
  I don't own an i{Pad,Pod,Phone}; how would you (for example) open up an MP3 in a music editor, make some changes, and then open up the same MP3 in the music player? The solution on the desktop is to give it a unique identifier in the form of a hierarchical filesystem.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    This is a really niche use case, but let's try anyways since you can do it with Garage Band [1]. Music exists in its own data space on iOS organized by artist, genre, album, and so on...you know...what the user wants for playing music. Now, this definitely wouldn't work very well for meta-data free content...but how many users deal with data that lacks meta-data? File system path is just one awkward form of meta-data that they could manually specify. [1] http://www.midnightmusic.com.au/2012/08/how-to-get-garageband-songs-off-your-ipad/ http://www.midnightmusic.com.au/2012/08/how-to-get-garageban...
    - aidenn0 13y ago
      Separate viewing and editing applications isn't that rare; perhaps every single example of it is niche, but in aggregate I'm not convinced it is. What you have described is just a non-hierarchic file-system which has been tried in the past; it is possible that the time has finally come for it though. Some issues are that a general-purpose one is much harder than a special purpose one (e.g. music only) and getting vendor buy-in has been hard. Apple is in a position to force vendor buy in so it will be interesting to see how things play out.

by abruzzi 13y ago

macspoofing 13y ago

>So, without a file system, how do you organize the Linux kernel code? Or the WebKit code? He means the File System metaphor. There most certainly is a File System underpinning iPads and iPhones but the end-user need not know it even exists.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

One could build a development environment that was not dependent on a filesystem for code organization. Actually, its been done at least once with Smalltalk's class browser and persistent images. Also, music and video editors really only care about their content, not fancy directory structures. I've never wanted a filesystem for my ipad. What use would it be?

aidenn0 13y ago
I don't own an i{Pad,Pod,Phone}; how would you (for example) open up an MP3 in a music editor, make some changes, and then open up the same MP3 in the music player? The solution on the desktop is to give it a unique identifier in the form of a hierarchical filesystem.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  This is a really niche use case, but let's try anyways since you can do it with Garage Band [1]. Music exists in its own data space on iOS organized by artist, genre, album, and so on...you know...what the user wants for playing music. Now, this definitely wouldn't work very well for meta-data free content...but how many users deal with data that lacks meta-data? File system path is just one awkward form of meta-data that they could manually specify. [1] http://www.midnightmusic.com.au/2012/08/how-to-get-garageband-songs-off-your-ipad/ http://www.midnightmusic.com.au/2012/08/how-to-get-garageban...
  - aidenn0 13y ago
    Separate viewing and editing applications isn't that rare; perhaps every single example of it is niche, but in aggregate I'm not convinced it is. What you have described is just a non-hierarchic file-system which has been tried in the past; it is possible that the time has finally come for it though. Some issues are that a general-purpose one is much harder than a special purpose one (e.g. music only) and getting vendor buy-in has been hard. Apple is in a position to force vendor buy in so it will be interesting to see how things play out.