5 ms·

The file system isn't going away. Even when I'm in consumer mode I access the file system on my phone daily. Maybe I've just transferred a file to my phone tha

The file system isn't going away. Even when I'm in consumer mode I access the file system on my phone daily. Maybe I've just transferred a file to my phone that I want to read. I'll look in the appropriate folder where files that are transferred by Bluetooth are saved, this being the easiest way to open such a file. Or perhaps I'll open up the Dropbox app and use its pseudo-filesystem to find a file. I delete large folders manually and I sometimes dig out a profile photo that Grindr cached if I'm creating a new contact in my phone and don't want to forget who they are. Also, the desktop isn't going to disappear, it's just going to be used in more niche cases, like development, graphic design, and even gaming. Some people just have a preference for that form factor, especially because it can be more comfortable for longer stretches. For casual users? They'll probably just have a laptop, a tablet (or a tablet with a decent keyboard), and a phone. People love to consume on phone and tablets and create on laptops and desktops with real keyboards. As long as a real keyboard is necessary true mobile devices are going to be a supplement but not a replacement.

andybak 13y ago
Files obviously aren't going anywhere as even document-based metaphors are files by another name. Folders? Well - maybe tags but hierarchical tags are essentially the same thing as folders with one restriction relaxed (a 'document' can be in more than one place). But removing them altogether is a step back to MS-DOS 1.0 with a single flat hierarchy and I don't see that helping anyone. The desktop however - I'm not even sure what you mean. A surface on which multiple overlapping windows are arranged? I don't think overlapping windows is anything other than a Xeroc PARC-induced collective mistake. I'd much rather have a tiling window interface of some kind. The only thing left for the desktop to provide is some kind of launcher and location for recently used files. It doesn't do a very good job of that when combined with overlapping windows (they tend to be blocking the desktop most of the time...) so I think that is something we can happily improve on.
- kunai 13y ago
  Think about what you said for just a minute. > A surface on which multiple overlapping windows are arranged? I don't think overlapping windows is anything other than a Xeroc PARC-induced collective mistake. I'd much rather have a tiling window interface of some kind Now, rearrange that a bit: > A surface on which multiple overlapping papers are arranged? I don't think overlapping windows is anything other than a paperwork-induced collective mistake. I'd much rather have a tiling desk paper interface of some kind. Sounds a bit absurd, right? Desktops on PCs are virtual analogues of desktops in real life, and desktops in real life are designed to be modular, flexible, so they can stack and scale to any given task.
  - nbouscal 13y ago
    The desktop analogy is actually a weakness. With a real life desktop, you can't have 10 different workspaces that you're capable of instantly switching between, so you have to have all of your papers overlapping. This leads to an inefficient workflow when you try to switch between them. With a computer desktop, you can have as many workspaces as you need, which paves the way for a tiling window manager to increase your efficiency.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  >A surface on which multiple overlapping windows are arranged? I don't think overlapping windows is anything other than a Xeroc PARC-induced collective mistake. I'd much rather have a tiling window interface of some kind. 25x80, EGA don't ring a bell i guess. It is nice to tile on a couple of 1920x1200 or 2560x1440 though.
- XorNot 13y ago
  The filesystem has also had the concept of "tags" for quite a while - since hard links essentially provide the same functionality (file may be in many places at once, is only deleted when reference count reaches 0).
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Yeah, but that's not surfaced to most UIs. Symlinks/"shortcuts" are, though.
    - XorNot 13y ago
      This is true and sensible since hard links have the bad property of not making it clear you're editing a file that may be elsewhere (which really speaks to the danger of tags in many respects as well I'd say). Most of this stuff is implemented by toolkits and DE-specific things though, so its not inconceivable it could be substantially improved in one swoop.
- kintamanimatt 13y ago
  Desktop = desktop computer. I put forward a counterargument to a point made in the second half of the article regarding desktop computers. Some people like tiling window managers, other people prefer stacking window managers. I feel constricted by tiling windows managers which is why I don't use them. I readily stack and deliberately overlap windows daily, and it's part of my workflow. But, at least with a *nix based system you have your choice. Replacing folders with metadata would make it more unwieldy. Files and folders are a familiar, logical, and easy metaphor that readily lends itself to a graphical environment. Heaps of data (at least in the non-programming sense) with excellent metadata is a second rate version of the former. It's been proposed and tried many times with little success because it doesn't lend itself to easy access of data, except when there are few content blobs ("files") in existence.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    except when there are few content blobs ("files") in existence Or many. Isn't that why search engines won to "directories"?
    - kintamanimatt 13y ago
      Well, no, they didn't. Search engines are useful when you've got a haystack of stuff and you're looking for a needle. They're particularly useful when you're looking for something novel, usually an answer to a question. Often you don't know where the content is and you probably didn't create it either. They have two benefits: removing the tedium of hunting intelligently through an unknown haystack for some content, and doing it faster than could be done manually. They also come with the benefit of returning alternate results. The file/directory model is useful when you know roughly (or exactly) where something is. It's easier and often quicker to clicky clicky all the way to your content than it is to describe what you're looking for, waiting, wading through possibly irrelevant results, and then refining your query if you didn't succeed first time around. This model also has the benefit of returning related content (other files in the same directory), as opposed to alternate results. It's for this reason the file system is going to live on, simply because there are many daily situations in which clicking or tapping on directories to get to a file is easier and perceptually quicker. Both filesystems and search engines are useful in different scenarios, which is why we use both depending on which is easier in a given scenario.

andybak 13y ago

Files obviously aren't going anywhere as even document-based metaphors are files by another name. Folders? Well - maybe tags but hierarchical tags are essentially the same thing as folders with one restriction relaxed (a 'document' can be in more than one place). But removing them altogether is a step back to MS-DOS 1.0 with a single flat hierarchy and I don't see that helping anyone. The desktop however - I'm not even sure what you mean. A surface on which multiple overlapping windows are arranged? I don't think overlapping windows is anything other than a Xeroc PARC-induced collective mistake. I'd much rather have a tiling window interface of some kind. The only thing left for the desktop to provide is some kind of launcher and location for recently used files. It doesn't do a very good job of that when combined with overlapping windows (they tend to be blocking the desktop most of the time...) so I think that is something we can happily improve on.

kunai 13y ago
Think about what you said for just a minute. > A surface on which multiple overlapping windows are arranged? I don't think overlapping windows is anything other than a Xeroc PARC-induced collective mistake. I'd much rather have a tiling window interface of some kind Now, rearrange that a bit: > A surface on which multiple overlapping papers are arranged? I don't think overlapping windows is anything other than a paperwork-induced collective mistake. I'd much rather have a tiling desk paper interface of some kind. Sounds a bit absurd, right? Desktops on PCs are virtual analogues of desktops in real life, and desktops in real life are designed to be modular, flexible, so they can stack and scale to any given task.
- nbouscal 13y ago
  The desktop analogy is actually a weakness. With a real life desktop, you can't have 10 different workspaces that you're capable of instantly switching between, so you have to have all of your papers overlapping. This leads to an inefficient workflow when you try to switch between them. With a computer desktop, you can have as many workspaces as you need, which paves the way for a tiling window manager to increase your efficiency.
VladRussian2 13y ago
>A surface on which multiple overlapping windows are arranged? I don't think overlapping windows is anything other than a Xeroc PARC-induced collective mistake. I'd much rather have a tiling window interface of some kind. 25x80, EGA don't ring a bell i guess. It is nice to tile on a couple of 1920x1200 or 2560x1440 though.
XorNot 13y ago
The filesystem has also had the concept of "tags" for quite a while - since hard links essentially provide the same functionality (file may be in many places at once, is only deleted when reference count reaches 0).
- icebraining 13y ago
  Yeah, but that's not surfaced to most UIs. Symlinks/"shortcuts" are, though.
  - XorNot 13y ago
    This is true and sensible since hard links have the bad property of not making it clear you're editing a file that may be elsewhere (which really speaks to the danger of tags in many respects as well I'd say). Most of this stuff is implemented by toolkits and DE-specific things though, so its not inconceivable it could be substantially improved in one swoop.
kintamanimatt 13y ago
Desktop = desktop computer. I put forward a counterargument to a point made in the second half of the article regarding desktop computers. Some people like tiling window managers, other people prefer stacking window managers. I feel constricted by tiling windows managers which is why I don't use them. I readily stack and deliberately overlap windows daily, and it's part of my workflow. But, at least with a *nix based system you have your choice. Replacing folders with metadata would make it more unwieldy. Files and folders are a familiar, logical, and easy metaphor that readily lends itself to a graphical environment. Heaps of data (at least in the non-programming sense) with excellent metadata is a second rate version of the former. It's been proposed and tried many times with little success because it doesn't lend itself to easy access of data, except when there are few content blobs ("files") in existence.
- icebraining 13y ago
  except when there are few content blobs ("files") in existence Or many. Isn't that why search engines won to "directories"?
  - kintamanimatt 13y ago
    Well, no, they didn't. Search engines are useful when you've got a haystack of stuff and you're looking for a needle. They're particularly useful when you're looking for something novel, usually an answer to a question. Often you don't know where the content is and you probably didn't create it either. They have two benefits: removing the tedium of hunting intelligently through an unknown haystack for some content, and doing it faster than could be done manually. They also come with the benefit of returning alternate results. The file/directory model is useful when you know roughly (or exactly) where something is. It's easier and often quicker to clicky clicky all the way to your content than it is to describe what you're looking for, waiting, wading through possibly irrelevant results, and then refining your query if you didn't succeed first time around. This model also has the benefit of returning related content (other files in the same directory), as opposed to alternate results. It's for this reason the file system is going to live on, simply because there are many daily situations in which clicking or tapping on directories to get to a file is easier and perceptually quicker. Both filesystems and search engines are useful in different scenarios, which is why we use both depending on which is easier in a given scenario.