4 ms·

My taxes pay for the expensive university education of foreigners, without guarantee they can stay? Great.

by genwin 13y ago

astrodust 13y ago
Many, if not most developed countries do this. Don't be such a jackass. The idea is that these students enrich the university, and there's a chance they'll stay on as professors. Billions are spent chasing foreign students that can throw a football and you chose to save your rage for this?
- genwin 13y ago
  It's hardly being a jackass to wish that my taxes weren't wasted, in any way whatsoever.
  - astrodust 13y ago
    It's not like you're footing the bill for all foreign students single-handedly. There's this thing called society. You're part of it. If you think your taxes are being "wasted" on foreign students, as if those freeloaders are being forced on institutions like MIT by the government, take it up with your representative or senator. The academic world is bigger than the US. It might shock you but there are some very capable students outside those borders and MIT would very much like to have them doing research at MIT rather than somewhere else.
    - genwin 13y ago
      Then let MIT pay for that, not me, when there's no likelihood the student will be paying me back in the form of US taxes. The research leads to patents that MIT gets compensated for, not me. My taxes are likely being wasted here, working against the society I support. It doesn't matter if it's only a dime of mine since all waste is bad and adds up to a lot. No I'm not going to take it up with my representative, falling on deaf ears. I'm going to make my point here on HN instead, where it belongs.
      - tjgq 13y ago
        You are aware that not all research leads to concrete, patentable ideas, right?
        genwin 13y ago
        Yes, just like not all startups are successful for VCs. The revenue generated by some of the research can pay for all the research, and patents are just one of many revenue sources for them. Johns Hopkins has an endowment of $2.5 billion. MIT has $10 billion. They can afford to pay for foreigners' educations without getting taxpayers involved. Taxpayers are involved so they can have even more money in the bank.
        tjgq 13y ago
        > Yes, just like not all startups are successful for VCs. A dangerous analogy, because the sole criterion of success for a startup is to be financially successful, whereas there are lots of research ideas that cannot be translated into a profitable business, yet are still worthwhile to pursue. Think fundamental results in maths and physics. I am all for universities to have sources of revenue other than taxpayer money. But I fear that making those the only sources of revenue (you did defend that in your original post) will instill a climate where researchers are prevented from pursuing research topics that cannot possibly bring in any money for their universities. And this is not just about "knowledge for knowledge's sake", either. Think about, say, quantum mechanics or complex analysis. Would anyone have paid for the early research in these areas with the expectation of financial returns? And yet, here they are today at the basis of a number of highly profitable industries.
        genwin 13y ago
        I'm fine with spending public money for research done by domestic students or those foreign students who have stated their intention to stay in the US and have their path to citizenship approved in advance. For other students the university should pay for it out of their endowment. In other words the public's money should be spent judiciously, not frivolously.
- daraul 13y ago
  I interpreted his rage as being directed toward the "without any guarantee they can stay?" part of the statement. It IS quite wasteful that he was given this opportunity, and then thrown out before he even had the chance to complete his education. Absent any real reasoning (which we're likely to never see) it's tremendously irresponsible.
acuozzo 13y ago
Stop carving the world into football teams, genwin. There's value in having a highly-educated __world__ population.
- genwin 13y ago
  Yes there's value in that, but it's surely a net loss to pay more for a single foreigner's education than 5 average Americans have in assets put together.

My taxes pay for the expensive university education of foreigners, without guarantee they can stay? Great.

by genwin 13y ago

My taxes pay for the expensive university education of foreigners, without guarantee they can stay? Great.

Many, if not most developed countries do this. Don't be such a jackass. The idea is that these students enrich the university, and there's a chance they'll stay on as professors. Billions are spent chasing foreign students that can throw a football and you chose to save your rage for this?

genwin 13y ago
It's hardly being a jackass to wish that my taxes weren't wasted, in any way whatsoever.
- astrodust 13y ago
  It's not like you're footing the bill for all foreign students single-handedly. There's this thing called society. You're part of it. If you think your taxes are being "wasted" on foreign students, as if those freeloaders are being forced on institutions like MIT by the government, take it up with your representative or senator. The academic world is bigger than the US. It might shock you but there are some very capable students outside those borders and MIT would very much like to have them doing research at MIT rather than somewhere else.
  - genwin 13y ago
    Then let MIT pay for that, not me, when there's no likelihood the student will be paying me back in the form of US taxes. The research leads to patents that MIT gets compensated for, not me. My taxes are likely being wasted here, working against the society I support. It doesn't matter if it's only a dime of mine since all waste is bad and adds up to a lot. No I'm not going to take it up with my representative, falling on deaf ears. I'm going to make my point here on HN instead, where it belongs.
    - tjgq 13y ago
      You are aware that not all research leads to concrete, patentable ideas, right?
      - genwin 13y ago
        Yes, just like not all startups are successful for VCs. The revenue generated by some of the research can pay for all the research, and patents are just one of many revenue sources for them. Johns Hopkins has an endowment of $2.5 billion. MIT has $10 billion. They can afford to pay for foreigners' educations without getting taxpayers involved. Taxpayers are involved so they can have even more money in the bank.
        tjgq 13y ago
        > Yes, just like not all startups are successful for VCs. A dangerous analogy, because the sole criterion of success for a startup is to be financially successful, whereas there are lots of research ideas that cannot be translated into a profitable business, yet are still worthwhile to pursue. Think fundamental results in maths and physics. I am all for universities to have sources of revenue other than taxpayer money. But I fear that making those the only sources of revenue (you did defend that in your original post) will instill a climate where researchers are prevented from pursuing research topics that cannot possibly bring in any money for their universities. And this is not just about "knowledge for knowledge's sake", either. Think about, say, quantum mechanics or complex analysis. Would anyone have paid for the early research in these areas with the expectation of financial returns? And yet, here they are today at the basis of a number of highly profitable industries.
        genwin 13y ago
        I'm fine with spending public money for research done by domestic students or those foreign students who have stated their intention to stay in the US and have their path to citizenship approved in advance. For other students the university should pay for it out of their endowment. In other words the public's money should be spent judiciously, not frivolously.
daraul 13y ago
I interpreted his rage as being directed toward the "without any guarantee they can stay?" part of the statement. It IS quite wasteful that he was given this opportunity, and then thrown out before he even had the chance to complete his education. Absent any real reasoning (which we're likely to never see) it's tremendously irresponsible.

acuozzo 13y ago

Stop carving the world into football teams, genwin. There's value in having a highly-educated __world__ population.

genwin 13y ago
Yes there's value in that, but it's surely a net loss to pay more for a single foreigner's education than 5 average Americans have in assets put together.