5 ms·

Universities in Europe and the Bologna process

16 points by nopinsight 18y ago

arrrg 18y ago
Well, it’s complicated. The restructuring caused some chaos, quite a few problems and for many Professors to be unhappy. Universities are still reluctant to give one credit for things done somewhere else. Many universities offer increasingly specialized study courses. So what became supposedly easily possible for the first time due to the Bologna process (I’m talking about Germany here) – switching universities after the Bachelor (didn’t exist before in any way, shape or form in Germany) – became at the same time very difficult because nobody offers (exactly) the same. Much of this is Professors fretting about additional work – they have to talk to all those strange Bachelor people and actually negotiate about what they are going to give them credit for (“Oh come on, your seminar on medieval literature doesn’t count as fulfilling your modern literature requirement!“). I’m quite happy until now (first generation “Bologna”, now in the fourth semester), but the Bachelor’s degree seems pretty useless here in Germany. I’m not sure if anyone would hire someone with a Bachelor’s degree in Germany at the moment – we didn’t have anything like that before, companies are not exactly sure what having a Bachelor’s degree means. And my university seems even to think that it is necessary to write "Equivalent of the (old) diploma" on their Master’s degree. Was the Bologna process useful? – Hm, I’m really not sure right now. Ask me in five years.
- CrLf 18y ago
  Well, I'm not really sure the effect of the Bologna process in Portugal, because I finished my degree still in the "old" model. But I do know that it is a source of confusion. In the old model there were four degrees: Bachelor (3 years), Licenciado (5 years), Master (6+ years) and Doctorate. Now we have Licenciado (3 years), Master (5 years) and Doctorate (6+ years). This means "Licenciados" and "Masters" from the old model must disambiguate by adding "(n years)" as not to be confused with the new (shorter) versions. Madness.
  - Luc 18y ago
    A small price to pay for allowing cross-border competition, I think.It would be great if this were to allow universities to focus more on their strengths, instead of having to offer every degree under the sun. It would allow European universities to improve their worldwide rankings while still remaining free/affordable.
- miguelpais 18y ago
  In Portugal (hi CrLg, nice to see some portuguese around...) I guess its the opposite. At least in IT related courses. Companies are eager to hire bachelors, which will do the job they want them to do exactly the same as a Master, but with the difference of paying them only a fraction.
ovi256 18y ago
Back in 2005, the ECTS (European Credit Transfer System) and Erasmus program already worked perfectly - I have spent one year away in Spain without any problems (except too much partying which bombed my grades). And many of my colleagues did the same.
dejan 18y ago
I am surprised how many Europeans there are here. There just has to be done something in Europe so that we do not turn to US for developing ideas... Greetings to all European hackers! :)

16 points by nopinsight 18y ago

arrrg 18y ago

Well, it’s complicated. The restructuring caused some chaos, quite a few problems and for many Professors to be unhappy. Universities are still reluctant to give one credit for things done somewhere else. Many universities offer increasingly specialized study courses. So what became supposedly easily possible for the first time due to the Bologna process (I’m talking about Germany here) – switching universities after the Bachelor (didn’t exist before in any way, shape or form in Germany) – became at the same time very difficult because nobody offers (exactly) the same. Much of this is Professors fretting about additional work – they have to talk to all those strange Bachelor people and actually negotiate about what they are going to give them credit for (“Oh come on, your seminar on medieval literature doesn’t count as fulfilling your modern literature requirement!“). I’m quite happy until now (first generation “Bologna”, now in the fourth semester), but the Bachelor’s degree seems pretty useless here in Germany. I’m not sure if anyone would hire someone with a Bachelor’s degree in Germany at the moment – we didn’t have anything like that before, companies are not exactly sure what having a Bachelor’s degree means. And my university seems even to think that it is necessary to write "Equivalent of the (old) diploma" on their Master’s degree. Was the Bologna process useful? – Hm, I’m really not sure right now. Ask me in five years.

CrLf 18y ago
Well, I'm not really sure the effect of the Bologna process in Portugal, because I finished my degree still in the "old" model. But I do know that it is a source of confusion. In the old model there were four degrees: Bachelor (3 years), Licenciado (5 years), Master (6+ years) and Doctorate. Now we have Licenciado (3 years), Master (5 years) and Doctorate (6+ years). This means "Licenciados" and "Masters" from the old model must disambiguate by adding "(n years)" as not to be confused with the new (shorter) versions. Madness.
- Luc 18y ago
  A small price to pay for allowing cross-border competition, I think.It would be great if this were to allow universities to focus more on their strengths, instead of having to offer every degree under the sun. It would allow European universities to improve their worldwide rankings while still remaining free/affordable.
miguelpais 18y ago
In Portugal (hi CrLg, nice to see some portuguese around...) I guess its the opposite. At least in IT related courses. Companies are eager to hire bachelors, which will do the job they want them to do exactly the same as a Master, but with the difference of paying them only a fraction.

ovi256 18y ago

Back in 2005, the ECTS (European Credit Transfer System) and Erasmus program already worked perfectly - I have spent one year away in Spain without any problems (except too much partying which bombed my grades). And many of my colleagues did the same.

dejan 18y ago

I am surprised how many Europeans there are here. There just has to be done something in Europe so that we do not turn to US for developing ideas... Greetings to all European hackers! :)