5 ms·

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops? Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control wou

by onli 13y ago

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops? Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control would probably not be ready in time. The USA could just bomb germany down, like it was planned in case of a war with the UDSSR.

TallGuyShort 13y ago
Germany itself isn't the only reason I doubt the US would attack Germany. If the US attacked Germany, I'm sure most of Europe would side with Germany at this point. So it would be akin to attacking all of Europe. Not something that's worth a single NSA leak, I'm sure.
- onli 13y ago
  Of course not worth it. Think i just minded the "powerful".
- pekk 13y ago
  Why is everyone in this discussion assuming that the US would be attacking Germany if not for the awesome deterrent power of the EU? Seriously?
  - TallGuyShort 13y ago
    What in my post led you to believe I think there's even a remote chance of that happening?
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    Motive and deterrence are orthogonal. Nobody said anything about motive because there is no realistic motive. These 'assumptions' you're seeing are wholly in your own head. There is, however, real deterrence, and it's interesting to explore its shape.
  - digitalengineer 13y ago
    Sounds crazy but the US has plans to IN-f*cking-VADE Germany's neighbour, the Netherlands if they were ever to do a crazy thing, like arrest US soldiers for war crimes and bring them to the International Tribunal. ..."The Hague Invasion Act,[3][4] since such freeing of US citizens by force might only be possible through an invasion of The Hague, Netherlands, the seat of several international criminal courts and the seat of the Dutch government." See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pro...
    - arethuza 13y ago
      Countries have all kinds of crazy plans in place in case crazy things happen. e.g. The UK had plans involving "shooting guards at American nuclear weapon stores in England if they proved uncooperative" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/in-the-event-of-a-russian-nuclear-attack-call-the-aa-710672.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/in-the-eve...
      - digitalengineer 13y ago
        Correct. But the International Tribunal isn't exactly 'a crazy thing*. Would it be 'crazy' to uphold (Coalition) troops to the same standard as 'the bad guys'?
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        arethuza 13y ago
        Personally, I think it is a great thing (I'd ship a certain former Prime Minister off to it) - but I'm not American.
Swizec 13y ago
Except for the tiny fact that you attack Germany, you attack EU. And that's pretty much a world war right there. Nobody wants another world war, don't be silly. M.A.D. still exists by the way. It's still why all major nations are at peace and why the EU gave so much flak to the US a few years ago when Bush wanted to install a nuclear shield. He later had to back down or serious stuff would've happened. (afaik) Also, according to wikipedia, Europe has 150 to 240 nuclear warheads. Plenty enough to destroy all US major cities.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Nobody wants another world war, don't be silly. But... but... what about childish power fantasies and world conquest?
  - fosap 13y ago
    That's how the prequells started.
- gamblor956 13y ago
  Oh no! The EU! A political body which requires unanimity to make any decision! We tremble in fear... In all seriousness though, the EU does not currently extend to defense; it is currently only a political and economic union. France and Germany have proposed extending the EU to include common defense, but as of today it had not yet been ratified by either the European Council or the member states. See, e.g., the Treaty of Lisbon. (Note that the Treaty of Lisbon technically removes the unanimity requirement in place of a "double majority" threshold (meaning >55% of vote from >65% of countries) beginning in 2014.)
  - dsuth 13y ago
    And of course, war has no impact on politics and tightly interwoven economies...
  - nraynaud 13y ago
    good news, because there has been military help treaties between neighboring countries a long time before EU was really standing up. Fun factoid: France lets Switzerland use part of its territory to defend Geneva. And also let it fly its plane over FR territory because CH is so small that it's not practical for pilots training.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
fwenzel 13y ago
Slowly? They have been closing US military facilities in Germany for decades.
- onli 13y ago
  So it is slowly. If it would be fast, all of them would be closed by now.
tsotha 13y ago
But there wouldn't be any reason for the US to attack Germany. If they want us out we'll leave. Were I president we'd leave whether or not they wanted us to.
flyinRyan 13y ago
If the US attacked Germany, the rest of Europe would instantly go to war with the US. Russia would likely attack the US as well (as good a time as any) and who knows what China might do. The US spends the most on military but considering they haven't won a fight since WWII (which would have ended the same with or without them) I don't see that they're that good.

by onli 13y ago

TallGuyShort 13y ago

Germany itself isn't the only reason I doubt the US would attack Germany. If the US attacked Germany, I'm sure most of Europe would side with Germany at this point. So it would be akin to attacking all of Europe. Not something that's worth a single NSA leak, I'm sure.

onli 13y ago
Of course not worth it. Think i just minded the "powerful".
pekk 13y ago
Why is everyone in this discussion assuming that the US would be attacking Germany if not for the awesome deterrent power of the EU? Seriously?
- TallGuyShort 13y ago
  What in my post led you to believe I think there's even a remote chance of that happening?
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  Motive and deterrence are orthogonal. Nobody said anything about motive because there is no realistic motive. These 'assumptions' you're seeing are wholly in your own head. There is, however, real deterrence, and it's interesting to explore its shape.
- digitalengineer 13y ago
  Sounds crazy but the US has plans to IN-f*cking-VADE Germany's neighbour, the Netherlands if they were ever to do a crazy thing, like arrest US soldiers for war crimes and bring them to the International Tribunal. ..."The Hague Invasion Act,[3][4] since such freeing of US citizens by force might only be possible through an invasion of The Hague, Netherlands, the seat of several international criminal courts and the seat of the Dutch government." See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pro...
  - arethuza 13y ago
    Countries have all kinds of crazy plans in place in case crazy things happen. e.g. The UK had plans involving "shooting guards at American nuclear weapon stores in England if they proved uncooperative" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/in-the-event-of-a-russian-nuclear-attack-call-the-aa-710672.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/in-the-eve...
    - digitalengineer 13y ago
      Correct. But the International Tribunal isn't exactly 'a crazy thing*. Would it be 'crazy' to uphold (Coalition) troops to the same standard as 'the bad guys'?
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - arethuza 13y ago
        Personally, I think it is a great thing (I'd ship a certain former Prime Minister off to it) - but I'm not American.

Swizec 13y ago

Except for the tiny fact that you attack Germany, you attack EU. And that's pretty much a world war right there. Nobody wants another world war, don't be silly. M.A.D. still exists by the way. It's still why all major nations are at peace and why the EU gave so much flak to the US a few years ago when Bush wanted to install a nuclear shield. He later had to back down or serious stuff would've happened. (afaik) Also, according to wikipedia, Europe has 150 to 240 nuclear warheads. Plenty enough to destroy all US major cities.

sliverstorm 13y ago
Nobody wants another world war, don't be silly. But... but... what about childish power fantasies and world conquest?
- fosap 13y ago
  That's how the prequells started.
gamblor956 13y ago
Oh no! The EU! A political body which requires unanimity to make any decision! We tremble in fear... In all seriousness though, the EU does not currently extend to defense; it is currently only a political and economic union. France and Germany have proposed extending the EU to include common defense, but as of today it had not yet been ratified by either the European Council or the member states. See, e.g., the Treaty of Lisbon. (Note that the Treaty of Lisbon technically removes the unanimity requirement in place of a "double majority" threshold (meaning >55% of vote from >65% of countries) beginning in 2014.)
- dsuth 13y ago
  And of course, war has no impact on politics and tightly interwoven economies...
- nraynaud 13y ago
  good news, because there has been military help treaties between neighboring countries a long time before EU was really standing up. Fun factoid: France lets Switzerland use part of its territory to defend Geneva. And also let it fly its plane over FR territory because CH is so small that it's not practical for pilots training.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

fwenzel 13y ago

Slowly? They have been closing US military facilities in Germany for decades.

onli 13y ago
So it is slowly. If it would be fast, all of them would be closed by now.

tsotha 13y ago

But there wouldn't be any reason for the US to attack Germany. If they want us out we'll leave. Were I president we'd leave whether or not they wanted us to.

flyinRyan 13y ago

If the US attacked Germany, the rest of Europe would instantly go to war with the US. Russia would likely attack the US as well (as good a time as any) and who knows what China might do. The US spends the most on military but considering they haven't won a fight since WWII (which would have ended the same with or without them) I don't see that they're that good.