7 ms·

1984

171 points by paulsutter 13y ago

prollyignored 13y ago
Does anyone watch american TV shows ? The idea that security > privacy is brainwashed into the american masses. Does anyone work as a sysadmin ? wheel users can read every one's data. Does anyone go to internet facebook/forums/mailing-lists ? They are mini totalitarian states where lusers are killed. The rhetoric ? Order and kill spam. The point is, internet has never been a shining example of democracy. There are no privacy laws for sysadmins. The internet ocean-tubes are owned by the government, the fact that they want to read email is no fairer than forum admin "banning" lusers or running sql. In 1984, every home has a cctv. Our 1984 is a paradise. TV's are the thought police. Hollywood takes care of public anger. Internet gives faux democracy. The government didn't do anything with it. The government only copied what admins since 1980 have been doing. You are interacting a with an interactive cctv !
- coherentpony 13y ago
  >The point is, internet has never been a shining example of democracy. There are no privacy laws for sysadmins. By using a system, you presumably agree to some terms and conditions you never read. Since I also never read them, I'm going to go ahead and presume that those terms and conditions state that any data or activity on said machine is and can be monitored by a sysadmin. If you don't want to be watched, you have to be the sysadmin. Since I'm too noob to downvote, I thought I'd just chime in here and inform you that you are wrong.
  - prollyignored 13y ago
    If NSA open sources their implementation, every country in the world, every telecom org, big-data companies like Google+Yahoo+Facebook+MS+Apple, forum software like HN+reddit+phpbb should run it on GPLv2 cloud linux boxes with the help of ninja sysadmins operating without laws to fight * spam * trolls * terrorists * people who disagree with status-quo * pedophiles * credit-card fraud * psychopaths on loose * rapists * Steve jobs haters I don't think HN has an admin interface, to kick all the hatrz. pg should contact the NSA ! Best of all, since state laws don't apply inside organizations, we can have "Terms and Conditions" that say > You guys trust us with your data ? > Ha ha ! > No guarantees > what ever
- abe_duarte 13y ago
  Interesting POV. The gov't laid that submarine cable with tax money though, the cables belong to us. The gov't controls them but we need them back.
jsankey 13y ago
I only finally read 1984 about a year ago. Everyone should read it: it's a great combination of entertainment and insight; funny, yet terrifying. The classics don't always live up to the hype, but there's a reason so many terms from the book ended up in our vocabulary.
- arethuza 13y ago
  Out of interest, what parts did you find funny? Personally, I thought it was one of the least amusing books I have ever read.
  - jsankey 13y ago
    It's a pretty dark form of humour, I guess. I found Winston to be quite comical character himself, which I think makes the book easier to endure in the darker parts. The extremity of some of the scenes/ministry policies and other characters made them both comical and scary. The former because they seem ridiculous, the latter because you feel it is not actually outside the realm of possibility (when you think on modern history).
- mark_l_watson 13y ago
  1984 is on my list. I just finished "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley and although it was a very good read, it was a little depressing since I could imagine the future turning out that way.
  - narag 13y ago
    The... future? Well, we still haven't in vitro gestation, right.
  - inerte 13y ago
    An interesting take on Brave New World vs 1984: http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/08/24/huxley-vs-orwell-infinite-distraction-or-government-oppression/ http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/08/24/huxley-...
  - 13y ago
zmitri 13y ago
It's nice seeing people like Fred stand up for privacy/human rights, but at the same time, it's little a bittersweet because speaking out directly against PRISM companies could affect business -- as companies he invests in are sometimes purchased by PRISM companies. That might hamper abilities to speak out more directly if he really wanted to make a difference. For example, Fred mentions he is proud that Twitter wasn't in PRISM, http://fredwilson.vc/post/52346663032/the-list-of-technology-companies-allegedly http://fredwilson.vc/post/52346663032/the-list-of-technology... but at the same time uses the fuckyeah tumblr meme to end the post. Tumblr was recently sold to PRISM-involved Yahoo. I'm not saying it's wrong, or bad, but it is very bittersweet.
- fredwilson 13y ago
  i could care less about pissing off google, yahoo, etc but it is less clear what else i should be doing to try to change things i am all ears
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    Sign the pardon petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... Not likely to make much difference, but it's something, and if Snowden is pardoned it will make a huge difference in terms of threat of transparency. Don't stop there, though.
  - zmitri 13y ago
    You're right, it is very unclear. My concern (and what seems to be Snowden's concern as well) is that business is going to keep going on as usual and everyone will let this slide. I don't think its your duty to do something more unless you really want to change things. That being said, doing something to really stand out, like boycotting those PRISM companies until they change their policies, wouldn't be in the fiduciary interests of your investors. It's a tough position to be in I think, and that's why I think it's bitter sweet. Mo money, mo problems.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
abe_duarte 13y ago
This is the audio of the 1984 quote, going to save this one. http://db.tt/gqOVbl9f http://db.tt/gqOVbl9f
bencollier49 13y ago
The chirpy voice actor seems rather unsuitable.
fredley 13y ago
Don't forget that this book was written in 1948. It's an astonishingly prescient book.
- tome 13y ago
  That particular quotation seems prescient, but there's plenty in the book that is nothing like what happens today, at least in a literal interpretation.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    War is peace? Ignorance is strength? Freedom is slavery? And my favourite, in Big Brother Iron (a 1984 "sequel" by Charlie Stross): Trust the Computer http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/toast/toast.html#bigbro http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/toast/to...
  - josephcooney 13y ago
    I think interpreting Orwell's books literally seems misguided. Animal Farm wasn't _REALLY_ about farm animals...was it.
    - WickyNilliams 13y ago
      I think 1984 is less allegory than Animal Farm though?
  - marcosdumay 13y ago
    You mean like the parts here the government rewrites history using a technology that is as similar to the Paladium as you can get with paper? Or how the governors are a different class that suport each other even on enemy states, thus the wars are nothing but a fabrication to keep the population under control? Or the parts where they control how the population perceive discidents, by controlling the press? Or maybe you mean the way how they so perfectly control the population that they must create the dissidents first at the Mini Love, before they turn the population against them. Yeah, reality isn't that way... Yet.
pdog 13y ago
It's nice to see people like Mr. Wilson stand up for the rights of U.S. citizens by quoting passages from 1984, but what can he and other influential members of the tech industry actually do to change the direction of the country?
- david927 13y ago
  It's up to all of us. We, the people, can stop what we're doing and create fundamental change. We have to eliminate the secret echelons that are above their bosses -- us. We can reboot the notion of congress, with elements of direct participation, campaign reform, and make lobbying illegal. It's easy to point a finger. It's hard to roll up our sleeves. But now is the time; now more than ever.
bane 13y ago
IMHO, the single most important book published in the 20th century and a heck of a read.

1984

171 points by paulsutter 13y ago

Does anyone watch american TV shows ? The idea that security > privacy is brainwashed into the american masses. Does anyone work as a sysadmin ? wheel users can read every one's data. Does anyone go to internet facebook/forums/mailing-lists ? They are mini totalitarian states where lusers are killed. The rhetoric ? Order and kill spam. The point is, internet has never been a shining example of democracy. There are no privacy laws for sysadmins. The internet ocean-tubes are owned by the government, the fact that they want to read email is no fairer than forum admin "banning" lusers or running sql. In 1984, every home has a cctv. Our 1984 is a paradise. TV's are the thought police. Hollywood takes care of public anger. Internet gives faux democracy. The government didn't do anything with it. The government only copied what admins since 1980 have been doing. You are interacting a with an interactive cctv !

coherentpony 13y ago
>The point is, internet has never been a shining example of democracy. There are no privacy laws for sysadmins. By using a system, you presumably agree to some terms and conditions you never read. Since I also never read them, I'm going to go ahead and presume that those terms and conditions state that any data or activity on said machine is and can be monitored by a sysadmin. If you don't want to be watched, you have to be the sysadmin. Since I'm too noob to downvote, I thought I'd just chime in here and inform you that you are wrong.
- prollyignored 13y ago
  If NSA open sources their implementation, every country in the world, every telecom org, big-data companies like Google+Yahoo+Facebook+MS+Apple, forum software like HN+reddit+phpbb should run it on GPLv2 cloud linux boxes with the help of ninja sysadmins operating without laws to fight * spam * trolls * terrorists * people who disagree with status-quo * pedophiles * credit-card fraud * psychopaths on loose * rapists * Steve jobs haters I don't think HN has an admin interface, to kick all the hatrz. pg should contact the NSA ! Best of all, since state laws don't apply inside organizations, we can have "Terms and Conditions" that say > You guys trust us with your data ? > Ha ha ! > No guarantees > what ever
abe_duarte 13y ago
Interesting POV. The gov't laid that submarine cable with tax money though, the cables belong to us. The gov't controls them but we need them back.

jsankey 13y ago

I only finally read 1984 about a year ago. Everyone should read it: it's a great combination of entertainment and insight; funny, yet terrifying. The classics don't always live up to the hype, but there's a reason so many terms from the book ended up in our vocabulary.

arethuza 13y ago
Out of interest, what parts did you find funny? Personally, I thought it was one of the least amusing books I have ever read.
- jsankey 13y ago
  It's a pretty dark form of humour, I guess. I found Winston to be quite comical character himself, which I think makes the book easier to endure in the darker parts. The extremity of some of the scenes/ministry policies and other characters made them both comical and scary. The former because they seem ridiculous, the latter because you feel it is not actually outside the realm of possibility (when you think on modern history).
mark_l_watson 13y ago
1984 is on my list. I just finished "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley and although it was a very good read, it was a little depressing since I could imagine the future turning out that way.
- narag 13y ago
  The... future? Well, we still haven't in vitro gestation, right.
- inerte 13y ago
  An interesting take on Brave New World vs 1984: http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/08/24/huxley-vs-orwell-infinite-distraction-or-government-oppression/ http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/08/24/huxley-...
- 13y ago

zmitri 13y ago

It's nice seeing people like Fred stand up for privacy/human rights, but at the same time, it's little a bittersweet because speaking out directly against PRISM companies could affect business -- as companies he invests in are sometimes purchased by PRISM companies. That might hamper abilities to speak out more directly if he really wanted to make a difference. For example, Fred mentions he is proud that Twitter wasn't in PRISM, http://fredwilson.vc/post/52346663032/the-list-of-technology-companies-allegedly http://fredwilson.vc/post/52346663032/the-list-of-technology... but at the same time uses the fuckyeah tumblr meme to end the post. Tumblr was recently sold to PRISM-involved Yahoo. I'm not saying it's wrong, or bad, but it is very bittersweet.

fredwilson 13y ago
i could care less about pissing off google, yahoo, etc but it is less clear what else i should be doing to try to change things i am all ears
- dllthomas 13y ago
  Sign the pardon petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... Not likely to make much difference, but it's something, and if Snowden is pardoned it will make a huge difference in terms of threat of transparency. Don't stop there, though.
- zmitri 13y ago
  You're right, it is very unclear. My concern (and what seems to be Snowden's concern as well) is that business is going to keep going on as usual and everyone will let this slide. I don't think its your duty to do something more unless you really want to change things. That being said, doing something to really stand out, like boycotting those PRISM companies until they change their policies, wouldn't be in the fiduciary interests of your investors. It's a tough position to be in I think, and that's why I think it's bitter sweet. Mo money, mo problems.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

abe_duarte 13y ago

This is the audio of the 1984 quote, going to save this one. http://db.tt/gqOVbl9f http://db.tt/gqOVbl9f

bencollier49 13y ago

The chirpy voice actor seems rather unsuitable.

fredley 13y ago

Don't forget that this book was written in 1948. It's an astonishingly prescient book.

tome 13y ago
That particular quotation seems prescient, but there's plenty in the book that is nothing like what happens today, at least in a literal interpretation.
- arethuza 13y ago
  War is peace? Ignorance is strength? Freedom is slavery? And my favourite, in Big Brother Iron (a 1984 "sequel" by Charlie Stross): Trust the Computer http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/toast/toast.html#bigbro http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/toast/to...
- josephcooney 13y ago
  I think interpreting Orwell's books literally seems misguided. Animal Farm wasn't _REALLY_ about farm animals...was it.
  - WickyNilliams 13y ago
    I think 1984 is less allegory than Animal Farm though?
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  You mean like the parts here the government rewrites history using a technology that is as similar to the Paladium as you can get with paper? Or how the governors are a different class that suport each other even on enemy states, thus the wars are nothing but a fabrication to keep the population under control? Or the parts where they control how the population perceive discidents, by controlling the press? Or maybe you mean the way how they so perfectly control the population that they must create the dissidents first at the Mini Love, before they turn the population against them. Yeah, reality isn't that way... Yet.

pdog 13y ago

It's nice to see people like Mr. Wilson stand up for the rights of U.S. citizens by quoting passages from 1984, but what can he and other influential members of the tech industry actually do to change the direction of the country?

david927 13y ago
It's up to all of us. We, the people, can stop what we're doing and create fundamental change. We have to eliminate the secret echelons that are above their bosses -- us. We can reboot the notion of congress, with elements of direct participation, campaign reform, and make lobbying illegal. It's easy to point a finger. It's hard to roll up our sleeves. But now is the time; now more than ever.

bane 13y ago

IMHO, the single most important book published in the 20th century and a heck of a read.