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Edward Snowden 'missing' in Hong Kong
- octo_t 13y agoWelp he's dead. Edit: (Sarcasm, I can't imagine the US being this obvious/idiotic)
- rfnslyr 13y agoYou're still giving the US the benefit of the doubt post 9/11? Brave.
- lambda 13y agoYou mean, you can't imagine the US government executing its own citizens for speaking out against the government in a foreign country without trial? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki
- Steko 13y agoThe idea that Anwar al-Awlaki was only guilty of 'speaking out against the government' is bananas.
- ihsw 13y agoAnwar al-Awlaki may have been a terrorist or he may not have been, however he wasn't tried in a court of law so he wasn't guilty of anything. The above statement looks very awkward but we shouldn't advocate extra-judicial killings.
- mpyne 13y agoOn the other hand, America would have shown no regard for the citizenship of the enemy in the equivalent situation of a German-American serving in the Nazi armies. Congress has told the President to use military force to eradicate Al Qaeda, al-Awlaki was in AQ, so even that isn't what you make it seem.
- markdown 13y agoI am a guy in a 3rd world country. Your government could assassinate me tomorrow, and then simply say that I was in Al Qaeda. They have proof of this, but of course they can't reveal that information for reasons of "National Security". You think this is OK, because your Congress has given the president authority to kill anyone who (according to whoever is holding the trigger) is involved in that organisation. Fuck you.
- mpyne 13y ago"Military force" doesn't actually mean indiscriminate killing is OK, otherwise we wouldn't consider My Lai a massacre. So my government would have to, at the very least, demonstrate that you actually play some operational role within AQ where a targeted killing of you would appreciably impair the military capacity of AQ. This was the logic used by the U.S. to send what was essentially a kill mission against the Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto during WWII, but it probably helped end that war faster so people don't seem to complain as much about that one, for some reason. But either way, if you're a non-U.S. citizen in a 3rd world country then for whatever reason you're not someone that our civil libertarians in the U.S. care about, as they only care about the extrajudicial killing of American citizens. I'm assuming when you say that they have proof that you are implying that the government is pretending they have proof but won't show it. If you're actually in AQ and involved in the violent death and destruction of Muslims, Americans, civilians and our allies throughout the world then I can't honestly say that I'd feel too sorry for you...
- jacquesm 13y agoIf 'you' (not you personally) really thought My Lai was a massacre then there would have been some more serious sentencing around that event. From the relevant wikipedia page: "While 26 U.S. soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at Mỹ Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest." Putting this event forward as an example of how well the US deals with military excesses is really not clever. See Fallujah for a more recent example.
- olefoo 13y agoAnwar-alAlaqui was a lot closer to being an Alex Jones, or Glenn Beck type of figure than being some terrorist mastermind; he was basically killed for calling for spiritual struggle against the United States Government. There's not much in the way of evidence that he was more than a loudmouth with a youtube channel. And while I wouldn't feel to broken up if Glenn Beck's RV were taken out in the parking lot of the Preakness; I would still object on principle if it were the US Government doing it, rather than one of his creditors.
- Steko 13y ago"There's not much in the way of evidence that he was more than a loudmouth with a youtube channel." That he recruited and trained Abdulmutallab (underwear bomber) alone puts him several categories out of "loudmouth" status. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/world/middleeast/anwar-al-awlaki-a-us-citizen-in-americas-cross-hairs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/world/middleeast/anwar-al-...
- mpyne 13y agoAnd also IIRC he had contact with Major Nidal Hasan before Hasan killed all those soldiers at Ft. Hood. PSYOPS is a military specialty just as much as shooting rifles and digging ditches...
- octo_t 13y agoThis close after the leak? Surely give it some time before snatching him, this is such a hot story right now that people are going to draw this conclusion... (Although obviously China etc might also want him for a few "questions")
- drivebyacct2 13y agoHahaha. Way too much credit is being given.
- conroe64 13y agoChina is a big player here, too. And they don't shy away from kidnapping.
- bgentry 13y agoSounds like it's not so much "he's missing" as "he checked out of his hotel".
- zwtaylor 13y agoThus far it seems like Mr. Snowden has taken the utmost precaution in maintaining OPSEC while releasing these documents. I wouldn't be surprised if he was long gone from Hong Kong days ago or never there to begin with.
- freshyill 13y agoOr, maybe he was there and didn't fully think through his choice of hiding places until it became abundantly obvious that Hong Kong was a terrible choice.
- quackerhacker 13y agoSo far all of his decisions have been very well calculated. I think this is apart of his reveal, to either keep the focus on the story, or maintain some type of safety and appear to have disappeared into China's intelligence agency....the real point I think is to keep the focus on the reveal.
- joelrunyon 13y agoIf you watch the video - the interviewee says that he's been planning this for a few years. I bet this is more calculated than people would like to imagine.
- cpleppert 13y agoBooz Allen said he was an employee for less than three months. That sounds really interesting, I thought he would have worked there for longer since he claims he was planning this for a long time and the reporter said he was in contact for months. If you read what the Wash Post reporter said Snowden tried to get him to release the entire slide deck. Why couldn't he put it on the internet? It is also interesting to me that he said this required a lot of preparation. If he had the accesses he claimed he had copying classified slide decks would be risky for him but not something that would take a long time. He also claimed that the NSA could track all emails in the USA and he (or an analyst not sure what he meant) could access the email of the president if he had the personal address. If that is the case, surely evidence of that type of deep telecommunications interception would be more important than PRISM especially since he raised that claim specifically to explain why he did it. With the access he had it would be easy to prove. I don't know what to make of his decisions. Not saying he isn't who he said he is but I think there are a lot of unanswered questions.
- jpalomaki 13y agoTaking classified data away from the organization in question may not be trivial. Email is probably monitored, using USB storage is probably not allowed, printers are probably monitored as well, CDR drives might not be readily available, internet access is probably quite limited and monitored.
- joelrunyon 13y agoThat didn't take long.
- scottshea 13y agoI imagine that he will keep moving until he gets asylum or some guarantees from the Chinese government.
- dllthomas 13y ago... or is pardoned: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... Not that I am holding out a lot of hope, but the more signatures the better. It does seem like the best outcome; we need greater transparency, and whistle-blowers help with that substantially. See also: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/government_secr.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/government_sec...
- zalew 13y agonot sure how it works in the US, but my understanding of a pardon is that you have to be trialed and convicted first, you can't be pardoned in blanco.
- wtn 13y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford#Pardon_of_Nixon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford#Pardon_of_Nixon
- zalew 13y agooh wow. ridiculous petitions aside, too bad he doesn't have any reason to pardon him - it's his last office anyway and the poor dude already put all his cards on the table.
- dllthomas 13y agoIf we collect enough signatures, he'll have to revisit if he wants to retain any credibility. Of course, "enough signatures" might well be upwards of 300 million...
- citricsquid 13y agoI wonder if this will go the way of Mcafee.
- pekk 13y agoThat depends, is Edward Snowden plainly out of his mind like McAfee clearly was even before the murder flap?
- anujabro 13y agoWhat if he is not actually in Hong Kong? Just a ploy
- VegaDoll 13y agoHopefully he's making his was to a country with not extradition back to the States.
- TillE 13y agoI'm certain that the US government is able to easily track someone traveling on their own legitimate passport. So that kind of ruse makes no sense. It's sort of a shame he didn't travel to the EU, as I suspect he'd get better support from most countries and would be able to travel in the EU without a passport.
- redwood 13y agoThis guy is former CIA...
- pyre 13y agoCIA does not imply field agent. If you worked for the CIA behind a desk for years, does that give you 'secret agent' skills?
- tekromancr 13y agoNo, but I bet you would allude to it at the bar.
- tdfx 13y agoHe worked as a "technical assistant" for the CIA. He probably picked up a few tricks during his tenure but he didn't go through the clandestine service trainee program, which are the people you're thinking of when you think of spooky CIA types.
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- sethbannon 13y agoThis is sensationalist use of the word "missing". The BBC doesn't know where Snowden currently is -- that's all the article says.
- joelrunyon 13y agoEspecially if he "checked out" of his hotel. That suggests it's a lot more purposeful than the maid coming to his room and finding him "gone."
- jfoster 13y ago... and the reason he checked out might be that the BBC (along with other media and governments) knew where he was.
- baby 13y agoExactly, this article doesn't deserve to be on the frontpage of HN. It's sensationalism, we really don't need to know where is Snowden at all time. It's not a sitcom.
- detcader 13y agoTrust me -- if Snowden wasn't anywhere he wanted to be, Greenwald would know and would be letting everyone else know.
- contingencies 13y agoAppears from cursory video vs. hotel website that he was using the less expensive room types at this hotel: 'club rooms' or 'mira suites'. http://www.themirahotel.com/en/rooms/room-choices.aspx http://www.themirahotel.com/en/rooms/room-choices.aspx There's some really good food around there. Seems such a shame to limit yourself to room service when you're facing jail! (Edit: What kind of warped mind would downvote such witty and perceptive analysis? Hahaha.)
- noonespecial 13y agoCould just as easily be Edward Snowden 'hiding' in Hong Kong. In his position, I wouldn't exactly be checking in on foursquare right now either.
- raverbashing 13y ago"You just became the mayor of Snowden's Hiding Place, congratulations!"
- bane 13y agoStuck in Hong Kong? Short on money? On the run from the Triads or the Man? Come stay at the (formerly) fabulous Chung King Mansions! The only hotel you can live in 24/7, get a job and raise a family in. In balmy Kowloon! Rooms start at $30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiRF1OOuw8&list=PL12CEAFFE67656EDB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiRF1OOuw8&list=PL12CEAFFE67...
- quantumpotato_ 13y agoHave you stayed there?
- bane 13y agoNo, but I've heard stories.
- smky80 13y agoI have, as a young oblivious backpacker. I chuckled. As far as I remember, the room was basically a broom closet with just enough room for a single bed and the door to swing open. Downstairs was ... interesting. But I enjoyed my mansion :)
- conroe64 13y agoI've stayed there, too. I felt like I was living in the movie Blade Runner.
- neolefty 13y agoStayed right next door in another "Mansion" place -- with my whole 5-person family. Had a great time. We got one of the few family-sized rooms. Big enough for two beds + a bathroom. And if one person got out of the way, the other could walk through the room. Plus, when we asked the housekeeper, she gave us a third mattress and extra towel! Actually, the kids loved it -- the previous two nights we stayed in a Teepee on a beach. First night great. By the second night we'd had enough of the mosquitoes and rugby-playing boy scouts. By comparison, the Mansion was "Mom, Dad, there are no mosquitoes! And it's so quiet when we close the windows! And air conditioning!" They didn't want to leave the room for two days. Had to tell the kids not to wander the building without us though.
- untog 13y agoIt seems entirely sensible that after he gave the interview to The Guardian, he left his hotel and found other accommodations before his identity became public. I would not be surprised if The Guardian are in touch with him, but are not publicly stating so until they have a good reason to.
- zatara 13y agoThere is all this talk about how he made a mistake going to Hong Kong because Hong Kong actually has a strong extradition treaty with the United States (although ultimately, mainland China can veto anything if it chooses to do so). Snowden did not make a mistake going to Hong Kong, he was exceptionally clever because most likely he knows more about NSA spying than just the domestic spying that he revealed. He probably knows details of international spying and how the U.S. manages to snoop on countries through technological means. By sitting in Hong Kong he is signaling that he could easily defect to the Chinese and reveal real damage to National Security or perhaps the U.S. will cut a deal with him to let him go home without much jail time. Also, at a time when the U.S. has been admonishing the Chinese for spying, this would be a propaganda gold mine for the Chinese as well as an intelligence windfall if he were to defect to their country. The U.S. would be seething if this were to happen but the Chinese know that the Americans are so tied up with business deals with China that they would not or could not do much to damage relations between the two countries. Snowden could have went to Iceland first but his trump card is sensitive security information that U.S. real adversaries would like to have. Iceland could not use that information.
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- tzs 13y agoWhy would anyone who worked at NSA and is publicly known to have had a very high security clearance go to Hong Kong in the first place? Wouldn't Chinese intelligence agencies love to get a hold of such a person and interrogate him?
- ck2 13y agoCIA was down the road from his hotel at the embassy. I am not sure if he really had a plan there.
- junto 13y agoThe CIA has a office 'down the road' from every hotel.
- josscrowcroft 13y agoHypothetically, I mean I'm sure he's got it all planned out, but he could convincingly change his appearance, stock up on supplies and a backpack, and grab a ferry over to one of the nearby islands to hide out until the news dies down a little bit. Then it's pretty trivial to make your way south-east. I mean he can't expect to get back safely to any Western country any time soon..
- workbench 13y agoCan't they use the NSA logs to find him? hah