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I love watching people moan about this yet unreleased product. I think the new Mac Pro episode will resemble the iPad one - lots of "ohemgee it's like just a b

I love watching people moan about this yet unreleased product. I think the new Mac Pro episode will resemble the iPad one - lots of "ohemgee it's like just a bigger ipod, lol, how stupid do they think we are, kthx?" reactions, when in fact this product will probably push a new paradigm shift in the way workstations are built i.e. moving away from the plastic pieces of shit ubiquitously sold now. Seriously, I dare you to look around a regular "PC customization" website e.g. [1]. Apart from Razer and maybe Alienware nobody has even tried to really innovate the workstation landscape. I remember when I was building one of my first desktops with my dad - 20 years ago. A final thought: Apple has a million flaws (mostly software and systems, grr), but they didn't get where they are for being stupid or for not understanding the market, so at least give them some fucking credit. [1] http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/view/Vortex-500-gaming-pc/ http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/view/Vortex-500-gaming-pc/

doktrin 13y ago
> part from Razer and maybe Alienware nobody has even tried to really innovate the workstation landscape By and large this holds true, however an increasing number of manufacturers are offering pre-built slim form factor PCs. They may not be radical re-designs of the sort Apple is trying to push, but they're certainly a departure from the norm [1]. [1] http://www.falcon-nw.com/desktops/tiki http://www.falcon-nw.com/desktops/tiki
pdog 13y ago
For those that don't remember, the biggest innovation in workstations is that we can build them out of consumer-grade PC parts.
mojuba 13y ago
Curiously, my first association was "jet engine", was amused to learn that to many it's a trash can. Am I the only one whose breath was taken away by this new design? Power desktop seriously revisited for the first time since the 80's, anyone?
- bargl 13y ago
  This was my first thought. http://goo.gl/nVBNJ http://goo.gl/nVBNJ
  - sp332 13y ago
    You don't need link shorteners on HN. It's (a little) rude to hide the destination you're asking people to click. The link goes to http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/dyson-table-fan-10-air-multiplier?ID=692392&cm_mmc=Google_DMA_Home_Electricc_PLA-_-PLA+Home+Brands+-+Electrics+Coop_PLA+-+Electricc+-+Dyson+-+Sale-_-23382488937_-_-_mkwid_VRS7VyAW|d{device}_23382488937|-|VRS7VyAW http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/dyson-table-fan-10-air-mu... which is Dyson's fan.
    - bargl 13y ago
      Well snap. Sorry man. It was more of a function of not knowing versus trying to be rude. I actually went out of my way to shorten it to be (what I thought was) courteous, but you make a valid point and I can see how that is actually quite sketchy. I can see how that would be taboo. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
- stock_toaster 13y ago
  It reminded me of a big battery. I thought it was cool!
- sinnerswing 13y ago
  Everyone made fun of the i"Pad" 3 years ago. Now everyone owns one.
  - angersock 13y ago
    Everyone in the Valley, maybe. I don't think that statement is true for the rest of America, or much outside of the US.
    - glenra 13y ago
kryten 13y ago
We reserve our right to moan at consumer junk with the workstation label glued on. Innovation is not something I really want in the workstation market. I want something utterly reliable that works flawlessly for several years and if something goes wrong I can swap the bits out in minutes. If I need more disks, just throw them inside it without playing around with half knackered frayed cables, external enclosures, power management and cable routing, volume management etc. More RAM? chuck it in. More CPU, chuck another CPU in. Apple aren't offering ANY of that. To be honest, neither Alienware or Razer are even workstation class machines either. People have a low expectation of the term "workstation" these days. Citation: http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/workstations/z820_features.html http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/workstations/z820_... Edit: will the "downvoters" please bother to stop and explain what their idea of a workstation is?
- millstone 13y ago
  I didn't downvote you, but I don't think your criticism is well founded. For example, on the existing Mac Pro, adding a hard drive not require any cables at all. Neither does adding RAM. So it's not the case that "Apple aren't offering any of that." I also don't see how the machine you linked to supports "chuck another CPU in". It looks like it limits you to two, which is the same as the Mac Pro.
  - kryten 13y ago
    I'm talking about the "new Mac Pro". The existing one a better piece of kit if you ask me. You can change the CPUs officially with the HP. I doubt Apple will offer that option. My current "workstation" is configured with 2x 4 core Xeons, 32Gb of RAM, 2x Samsung 840's, a 5 drive SAS array, a 32Gb PCIe RAMdisk and 2 Quadro cards. That won't fit in the new Mac Pro...
- deleted 13y ago
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- chongli 13y ago
  >Apple aren't offering ANY of that. I think Apple's philosophy here is to push all the expansion to external devices. The new Mac Pro has 6 thunderbolt 2 ports on it. I'd assume you could probably connect some extremely large and fast storage enclosures with that kind of bandwidth. A regular workstation will always be limited by the space available inside of it. Not with this.
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smackfu 13y ago
This is going to be a $3000 workstation. Its processor will cost more than that "workstation" you linked to. They aren't even competing in the same space. The new "paradigm" this is pushing is that you don't need PCIe cards or internal storage. We'll see about that.
- mark-r 13y ago
  This is not the first time they've decided there are elements that don't need to be part of the base machine. Each time there were outcries but they were proven right in the end. When's the last time you needed an optical drive for example? And did you see the mention under Thunderbolt 2 of "add a PCI expansion chassis" - that's their answer for those who really really need expansion.
  - jalons 13y ago
    This appears to be a lot like the Cube. Some thought it was ahead of its time then. Looks to me like Apple is giving it another try.
  - droithomme 13y ago
    > When's the last time you needed an optical drive for example? About a dozen times each month.
    - mark-r 13y ago
      And is an external unit adequate for your needs? I understand that an internal unit might have been more convenient for you, but Apple tends to optimize for the more common needs.
      - droithomme 13y ago
        I do in fact use an external unit, but only because the internal units on every Mac I have owned have failed due to Apple using very low quality, poorly designed Chinese sourced hardware components. This same low quality internal "SuperDrive" unit is in the add on Apple external optical disc. The external third unit is pretty noisy, has a large wall wart, and takes up desk space which contributes two cables, power and USB, as well as taking up one of the small number of USB ports on the Mac. This is an exceptionally poor design compared to the experience of using a PC which reasonable comes with an optical drive, something that I use very frequently, as do most computer users.
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bargl 13y ago
I wonder if there is a patent for this design or if we'll start seeing PCs that embrace the idea of one heat sink. It is a pretty cool idea, and takes advantage of some of the properties of aerodynamics. I wonder if they tested this in a wind tunnel.
bargl 13y ago
I wonder if there is a patent for this design or if we'll start seeing PCs that embrace the idea of one heat sink. It is a pretty cool idea, and takes advantage of some of the properties of aerodynamics. I wonder if they tested this in a wind tunnel. Edit: I know this is up here twice, getting a weird Error from the page when I try to delete or post... Sorry.
sinnerswing 13y ago
These are the same people who bitched and whined about the iPad and the iPhone. :D
deleted 13y ago
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bangkoknights 13y ago
The new Mac Pro is going be a spaghetti junction of cables, power supplies, external enclosures... whereas previously everything fit neatly into one single box which could be easily picked up and moved to another desk.
r0s 13y ago
The most interesting mods aren't OEM builds. Alienware for instance, has always focused on complete package game systems. There's a ton of innovation in that space by companies like Digital Storm: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/digital_storm_black_ops_hailstorm_review http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/digital_... Or Falcon Northwest: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/falcon_northwest_tiki_review http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/falcon_n... A major benefit of these systems is extensibility and repair options, which is why the layout isn't welded together with vendor lock-in proprietary components. Regardless... The ultimate in performance, price and flexibility is still to build it yourself. Personally, I'd prefer to build a workstation with better specs for a third the price. I'm sure lots of people are terrified to open a computer, and will gladly pay premium prices for something that will look chic for the first nine months. Let's talk about the real paradigm shift here: Black.
- ansimionescu 13y ago
  Ha! I really enjoyed the ending! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  > Let's talk about the real paradigm shift here: Black. The shape! I really wish they could have gone with a cube or a sphere...not a cylinder! But I understand why those options are not optimal thermally while the sphere is not optimal spatially.
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vacri 13y ago
Come on. If you're getting a customised PC, the items have to interoperate, but you gain flexibility. The Mac Pro customises... how? You're comparing apples and oranges. Besides, while the new design has some interesting features (well... one plus a different look), it's not like you could have built an 'all-in-one' with your dad 20 years ago. Stop with the hyperbole.
- inthewind 13y ago
  In 1981 I built an all in one with my Dad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zx81 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zx81 (Or rather he built it and I played the games.)
  - vacri 13y ago
    There is no video screen on a ZX81, so it's not really the same as what we call an 'all-in-one' these days.
vacri 13y ago
Come on. If you're getting a customised PC, the items have to interoperate, but you gain flexibility. The Mac Pro customises... how? You're comparing apples and oranges. Besides, while the new design has some interesting features (well... one plus a different look), it's not like you could have built an 'all-in-one' with your dad 20 years ago. Stop with the hyperbole.
mpyne 13y ago
Honestly I saw the page after seeing the 'trash can' comments and expected to be unimpressed. But I actually quite like the concept, though maybe that's the nuclear engineer in me talking.
tammer 13y ago
Precisely. No one has taken the real human usability of the box design into question for far too long. The cylinder doesn't inform a way of using it, it invites multiple. I picture myself using it "sideways," half turned for easy access/cable management. Rack mounting will require innovation as well, but imagine how densely you could pack them and how dynamic you could make the cooling. A single fan in a workstation machine. Unbelievable.
- inthewind 13y ago
  There are fanless workstations. I have two large silent fans: one in the power supply and one over the cpu in my monolithic 2007 PC. How about a load of mini-itx boards suspended in cooking fat? I agree in that most workstation units have are visually lack lustre. I was asking someone the other day why they don't wrap X model of iPhone in alumunium or titananium, and he said that it costs too much. But surely they are so small that it wouldn't hurt to add some luxury materials - a can of pop comes with a free alu can. The design actually reminds me perhaps of a precursor to the R1 astromech droids (on the inside.)
- rhizome 13y ago
  Rackmounting? Looks like that's always been a junky proposition anyway: https://www.google.com/search?q=rack+mount+mac+pro https://www.google.com/search?q=rack+mount+mac+pro Halfway down this page and it really appears a lot of people are just inventing reasons to have a problem with it.
deleted 13y ago
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subspaceman 13y ago
> Apart from Razer and maybe Alienware nobody has even tried to really innovate the workstation landscape. How about Thermaltake? http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001542 http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001...
snarkyturtle 13y ago
It's not going to change anything. For awhile now, they've been constantly shrinking and slimming their Mac Mini and iMac line and until today it looked like that's what they were focusing on in terms of desktop. It's always been a choice of a compact fully-configured iMac or a bulky cheaper, configurable PC tower and the towers didn't go anywhere. Now they're taking away the configurable part of the Mac Pro, so there are even more people who'll move to PC towers from their outdated last-gen Mac Pro.
taude 13y ago
This thing looks like a '90s sub-woofer. As of now, I wouldn't want this sitting on my desk as showy bling.
jlarocco 13y ago
Workstations are not gaming PCs or consumer desktop systems. Gaming PCs and consumer level desktops may be "plastic pieces of shit," but the workstations I've used are always solid - both hardware and software. The ones I have used have the build quality of a rack server, but in a desktop system. They typically use Xeon processors, ECC memory, etc.

doktrin 13y ago

> part from Razer and maybe Alienware nobody has even tried to really innovate the workstation landscape By and large this holds true, however an increasing number of manufacturers are offering pre-built slim form factor PCs. They may not be radical re-designs of the sort Apple is trying to push, but they're certainly a departure from the norm [1]. [1] http://www.falcon-nw.com/desktops/tiki http://www.falcon-nw.com/desktops/tiki

pdog 13y ago

For those that don't remember, the biggest innovation in workstations is that we can build them out of consumer-grade PC parts.

mojuba 13y ago

Curiously, my first association was "jet engine", was amused to learn that to many it's a trash can. Am I the only one whose breath was taken away by this new design? Power desktop seriously revisited for the first time since the 80's, anyone?

bargl 13y ago
This was my first thought. http://goo.gl/nVBNJ http://goo.gl/nVBNJ
- sp332 13y ago
  You don't need link shorteners on HN. It's (a little) rude to hide the destination you're asking people to click. The link goes to http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/dyson-table-fan-10-air-multiplier?ID=692392&cm_mmc=Google_DMA_Home_Electricc_PLA-_-PLA+Home+Brands+-+Electrics+Coop_PLA+-+Electricc+-+Dyson+-+Sale-_-23382488937_-_-_mkwid_VRS7VyAW|d{device}_23382488937|-|VRS7VyAW http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/dyson-table-fan-10-air-mu... which is Dyson's fan.
  - bargl 13y ago
    Well snap. Sorry man. It was more of a function of not knowing versus trying to be rude. I actually went out of my way to shorten it to be (what I thought was) courteous, but you make a valid point and I can see how that is actually quite sketchy. I can see how that would be taboo. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
stock_toaster 13y ago
It reminded me of a big battery. I thought it was cool!
sinnerswing 13y ago
Everyone made fun of the i"Pad" 3 years ago. Now everyone owns one.
- angersock 13y ago
  Everyone in the Valley, maybe. I don't think that statement is true for the rest of America, or much outside of the US.
  - glenra 13y ago

kryten 13y ago

We reserve our right to moan at consumer junk with the workstation label glued on. Innovation is not something I really want in the workstation market. I want something utterly reliable that works flawlessly for several years and if something goes wrong I can swap the bits out in minutes. If I need more disks, just throw them inside it without playing around with half knackered frayed cables, external enclosures, power management and cable routing, volume management etc. More RAM? chuck it in. More CPU, chuck another CPU in. Apple aren't offering ANY of that. To be honest, neither Alienware or Razer are even workstation class machines either. People have a low expectation of the term "workstation" these days. Citation: http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/workstations/z820_features.html http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/workstations/z820_... Edit: will the "downvoters" please bother to stop and explain what their idea of a workstation is?

millstone 13y ago
I didn't downvote you, but I don't think your criticism is well founded. For example, on the existing Mac Pro, adding a hard drive not require any cables at all. Neither does adding RAM. So it's not the case that "Apple aren't offering any of that." I also don't see how the machine you linked to supports "chuck another CPU in". It looks like it limits you to two, which is the same as the Mac Pro.
- kryten 13y ago
  I'm talking about the "new Mac Pro". The existing one a better piece of kit if you ask me. You can change the CPUs officially with the HP. I doubt Apple will offer that option. My current "workstation" is configured with 2x 4 core Xeons, 32Gb of RAM, 2x Samsung 840's, a 5 drive SAS array, a 32Gb PCIe RAMdisk and 2 Quadro cards. That won't fit in the new Mac Pro...
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chongli 13y ago
>Apple aren't offering ANY of that. I think Apple's philosophy here is to push all the expansion to external devices. The new Mac Pro has 6 thunderbolt 2 ports on it. I'd assume you could probably connect some extremely large and fast storage enclosures with that kind of bandwidth. A regular workstation will always be limited by the space available inside of it. Not with this.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

smackfu 13y ago

This is going to be a $3000 workstation. Its processor will cost more than that "workstation" you linked to. They aren't even competing in the same space. The new "paradigm" this is pushing is that you don't need PCIe cards or internal storage. We'll see about that.

mark-r 13y ago
This is not the first time they've decided there are elements that don't need to be part of the base machine. Each time there were outcries but they were proven right in the end. When's the last time you needed an optical drive for example? And did you see the mention under Thunderbolt 2 of "add a PCI expansion chassis" - that's their answer for those who really really need expansion.
- jalons 13y ago
  This appears to be a lot like the Cube. Some thought it was ahead of its time then. Looks to me like Apple is giving it another try.
- droithomme 13y ago
  > When's the last time you needed an optical drive for example? About a dozen times each month.
  - mark-r 13y ago
    And is an external unit adequate for your needs? I understand that an internal unit might have been more convenient for you, but Apple tends to optimize for the more common needs.
    - droithomme 13y ago
      I do in fact use an external unit, but only because the internal units on every Mac I have owned have failed due to Apple using very low quality, poorly designed Chinese sourced hardware components. This same low quality internal "SuperDrive" unit is in the add on Apple external optical disc. The external third unit is pretty noisy, has a large wall wart, and takes up desk space which contributes two cables, power and USB, as well as taking up one of the small number of USB ports on the Mac. This is an exceptionally poor design compared to the experience of using a PC which reasonable comes with an optical drive, something that I use very frequently, as do most computer users.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

bargl 13y ago

I wonder if there is a patent for this design or if we'll start seeing PCs that embrace the idea of one heat sink. It is a pretty cool idea, and takes advantage of some of the properties of aerodynamics. I wonder if they tested this in a wind tunnel. Edit: I know this is up here twice, getting a weird Error from the page when I try to delete or post... Sorry.

sinnerswing 13y ago

These are the same people who bitched and whined about the iPad and the iPhone. :D

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

bangkoknights 13y ago

The new Mac Pro is going be a spaghetti junction of cables, power supplies, external enclosures... whereas previously everything fit neatly into one single box which could be easily picked up and moved to another desk.

r0s 13y ago

The most interesting mods aren't OEM builds. Alienware for instance, has always focused on complete package game systems. There's a ton of innovation in that space by companies like Digital Storm: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/digital_storm_black_ops_hailstorm_review http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/digital_... Or Falcon Northwest: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/falcon_northwest_tiki_review http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/falcon_n... A major benefit of these systems is extensibility and repair options, which is why the layout isn't welded together with vendor lock-in proprietary components. Regardless... The ultimate in performance, price and flexibility is still to build it yourself. Personally, I'd prefer to build a workstation with better specs for a third the price. I'm sure lots of people are terrified to open a computer, and will gladly pay premium prices for something that will look chic for the first nine months. Let's talk about the real paradigm shift here: Black.

ansimionescu 13y ago
Ha! I really enjoyed the ending! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
> Let's talk about the real paradigm shift here: Black. The shape! I really wish they could have gone with a cube or a sphere...not a cylinder! But I understand why those options are not optimal thermally while the sphere is not optimal spatially.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

vacri 13y ago

Come on. If you're getting a customised PC, the items have to interoperate, but you gain flexibility. The Mac Pro customises... how? You're comparing apples and oranges. Besides, while the new design has some interesting features (well... one plus a different look), it's not like you could have built an 'all-in-one' with your dad 20 years ago. Stop with the hyperbole.

inthewind 13y ago
In 1981 I built an all in one with my Dad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zx81 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zx81 (Or rather he built it and I played the games.)
- vacri 13y ago
  There is no video screen on a ZX81, so it's not really the same as what we call an 'all-in-one' these days.

vacri 13y ago

mpyne 13y ago

Honestly I saw the page after seeing the 'trash can' comments and expected to be unimpressed. But I actually quite like the concept, though maybe that's the nuclear engineer in me talking.

tammer 13y ago

Precisely. No one has taken the real human usability of the box design into question for far too long. The cylinder doesn't inform a way of using it, it invites multiple. I picture myself using it "sideways," half turned for easy access/cable management. Rack mounting will require innovation as well, but imagine how densely you could pack them and how dynamic you could make the cooling. A single fan in a workstation machine. Unbelievable.

inthewind 13y ago
There are fanless workstations. I have two large silent fans: one in the power supply and one over the cpu in my monolithic 2007 PC. How about a load of mini-itx boards suspended in cooking fat? I agree in that most workstation units have are visually lack lustre. I was asking someone the other day why they don't wrap X model of iPhone in alumunium or titananium, and he said that it costs too much. But surely they are so small that it wouldn't hurt to add some luxury materials - a can of pop comes with a free alu can. The design actually reminds me perhaps of a precursor to the R1 astromech droids (on the inside.)
rhizome 13y ago
Rackmounting? Looks like that's always been a junky proposition anyway: https://www.google.com/search?q=rack+mount+mac+pro https://www.google.com/search?q=rack+mount+mac+pro Halfway down this page and it really appears a lot of people are just inventing reasons to have a problem with it.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

subspaceman 13y ago

> Apart from Razer and maybe Alienware nobody has even tried to really innovate the workstation landscape. How about Thermaltake? http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001542 http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001...

snarkyturtle 13y ago

It's not going to change anything. For awhile now, they've been constantly shrinking and slimming their Mac Mini and iMac line and until today it looked like that's what they were focusing on in terms of desktop. It's always been a choice of a compact fully-configured iMac or a bulky cheaper, configurable PC tower and the towers didn't go anywhere. Now they're taking away the configurable part of the Mac Pro, so there are even more people who'll move to PC towers from their outdated last-gen Mac Pro.

taude 13y ago

This thing looks like a '90s sub-woofer. As of now, I wouldn't want this sitting on my desk as showy bling.

jlarocco 13y ago

Workstations are not gaming PCs or consumer desktop systems. Gaming PCs and consumer level desktops may be "plastic pieces of shit," but the workstations I've used are always solid - both hardware and software. The ones I have used have the build quality of a rack server, but in a desktop system. They typically use Xeon processors, ECC memory, etc.