11 ms·

I'm Ready To Help NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden Seek Asylum

405 points by llambda 13y ago

ck2 13y ago
The problem is people always screw up and a decade later they think it's okay to visit the US for a conference or something and don't realize they will never see the light of day again once they step into that airport. Or some country wants a political favor from the current US president so they turn him over. Very brave dude but his life is just about as over as Bradley Manning.
- untog 13y ago
  Something tells me he will not forget. However, it might suddenly become very difficult for his family to go and visit him, wherever he ends up.
- a3n 13y ago
  More likely, he could be flying somewhere and the plane either enters US airspace, or has to make an emergency (real or not) landing in the US.
  - jzwinck 13y ago
    Do you think passengers involved in an emergency landing go through immigration and customs? Can they shop at the duty free store as well?
    - a3n 13y ago
      I don't know what's supposed to happen. Do you think federal agents of some flavor would pass up the arrest? I think they'd do it no matter what, and then a judge will give them a stern talking to and uphold the arrest. At best the guy would be in prison for years pre-trial, possibly convicted and prison, and then when his useful life is over he'll win a Supreme Court challenge. Chilling effect served.
pvnick 13y ago
The memo claims they're trying to reach out to Snowden to verify his intentions to seek asylum. I wonder how they do that?
- mpyne 13y ago
  Ask the Guardian to put them in touch?
  - pvnick 13y ago
    Didn't think of that, seems obvious now that you mention it
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I don't even care if she straight up runs a "gay conversion therapy" business if she does the right thing in this situation. I cannot object to a bad politician doing the right thing (though of course that does not mean I would vote for them).
lawnchair_larry 13y ago
Birgitta Jonsdottir, member of parliament in Iceland and the woman extending this offer (edit: she doesn't have authority to offer asylum, so reaching out to offer assistance is more accurate), was previously the subject of these secret orders, which were served on all of the major tech companies. The only reason she knows is because Twitter actually challenged the gag order and managed to get it unsealed (MAJOR respect to twitter, they deserve credit for this), which is the only time that has happened. Several others who were supporters of Wikileaks had these served as well. "The information demanded by the DOJ is sweeping in scope. It includes all mailing addresses and billing information known for the user, all connection records and session times, all IP addresses used to access Twitter, all known email accounts, as well as the "means and source of payment," including banking records and credit cards. It seeks all of that information for the period beginning November 1, 2009, through the present" This is why the "protecting the country from terrorists" rhetoric is bullshit and should be ignored. They'll sweep up anything from anyone who has any success in opposing or embarrassing them. That's why this cannot be allowed to happen in secret. Once they have your entire life, it doesn't matter who you are, they'll find something. If not, they'll harass you for years. While only five people were individually named, according to lawyer Mark Stephens the order effectively entailed the collection in relation to criminal prosecution of the personal identifying information of over six hundred thousand Twitter users, namely those who were "followers" of WikiLeaks. They claim this type of activity is only for specific, targeted individuals, but apparently to them, that means things like "anyone following @wikileaks on twitter".
- malandrew 13y ago
  Who were the other four people named?
  - tlrobinson 13y ago
    Julian Assange, Bradley Manning, Birgitta Jonsdottir, Jacob Appelbaum and Rop Gonggrijp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks-related_Twitter_subpoenas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks-related_Twitter_subpo...
untog 13y ago
Slightly off-topic question, but why did he not just go to Iceland in the first place? Hong Kong does not seem like the best destination here.
- lawnchair_larry 13y ago
  He has probably considered that and knows more than we do about what his strategy is. He probably hasn't shown his whole hand either. He might not even be in Hong Kong.
  - mehmehshoe 13y ago
    This. We are seeing reports that are hours old. How he released the NSA data was thought about long ago. I doubt he is in HongKong.
    - samstave 13y ago
      Totally - welcome to the farking cyberpunk future we all dreamed about in the 80s. THis is amazing.
  - untog 13y ago
    If he lied to The Guardian I would be very surprised. It would be unlikely to help his case.
    - cozeulodorieso 13y ago
      I don't think you've been paying attention. Glenn Greenwald (who writes for the Guardian) and Laura Poitras (who's independent, but has had bylines for both the Guardian and WP) interviewed him in his hotel room in Hong Kong. He definitely was in Hong Kong for a while.
      - untog 13y ago
        That was kind of my point. I wasn't the one who said "he might not even be in Hong Kong."
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tagabek 13y ago
Mildly off topic question: How common are asylum applications submitted? How often are they accepted?
beggi 13y ago
FYI: Birgitta is in a minority opposition party (The Icelandic pirate party) with 3 representatives out of 63. Given the ruling government's track record, both regarding refugees seeking asylum as well as a strong will to have good relations with the U.S., I find it highly unlikely he will be given asylum in Iceland. Now, Bobby Fischer was given an asylum in Iceland in 2006 in a unanimous parliament vote - but that was without great objections from the U.S. This is (obviously) a completely different thing.
- SagelyGuru 13y ago
  Perhaps Snowden will not be given asylum this time but you bet that the Pirate Party, the only official political movement on his side, will have more than 3 members of parliament after the next election.
  - Ihmahr 13y ago
    Yes, we hope so. But that is up to the icelandic people and whether or not they care.
znowi 13y ago
This is very nice of Jonsdottir, but given the current conservative government in Iceland, I doubt it is a safe place for Snowden. In fact, given how widespread the American influence is, I can't think of a safe country for him. Apart from Ecuadorian embassy-like hideouts.
ekr 13y ago
On an unrelated note, there's this petition on the White House website, in need of signatures : https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...
- cheald 13y ago
  Does anyone actually believe that that'll have any positive impact on this situation whatsoever? Maybe I'm just jaded, but "clicktivism" seems like it's just about the least valuable way you could possibly make a political statement.
mseebach 13y ago
The funny thing is, if the US had only treated Bradley Manning 'decently' (ie. as they would any other criminal suspect), the case for asylum would be exceedingly poor - he openly admits to committing a crime, and that simply isn't grounds for asylum. But the Bradley Manning case shows that those under prosecution for that kind of crime will be subjected to 'extra-legal' treatment that it can well be argued amounts to 'persecution' (which is the requirement in the UN convention on refugees).

405 points by llambda 13y ago

ck2 13y ago

The problem is people always screw up and a decade later they think it's okay to visit the US for a conference or something and don't realize they will never see the light of day again once they step into that airport. Or some country wants a political favor from the current US president so they turn him over. Very brave dude but his life is just about as over as Bradley Manning.

untog 13y ago
Something tells me he will not forget. However, it might suddenly become very difficult for his family to go and visit him, wherever he ends up.
a3n 13y ago
More likely, he could be flying somewhere and the plane either enters US airspace, or has to make an emergency (real or not) landing in the US.
- jzwinck 13y ago
  Do you think passengers involved in an emergency landing go through immigration and customs? Can they shop at the duty free store as well?
  - a3n 13y ago
    I don't know what's supposed to happen. Do you think federal agents of some flavor would pass up the arrest? I think they'd do it no matter what, and then a judge will give them a stern talking to and uphold the arrest. At best the guy would be in prison for years pre-trial, possibly convicted and prison, and then when his useful life is over he'll win a Supreme Court challenge. Chilling effect served.

pvnick 13y ago

The memo claims they're trying to reach out to Snowden to verify his intentions to seek asylum. I wonder how they do that?

mpyne 13y ago
Ask the Guardian to put them in touch?
- pvnick 13y ago
  Didn't think of that, seems obvious now that you mention it

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

jlgreco 13y ago
I don't even care if she straight up runs a "gay conversion therapy" business if she does the right thing in this situation. I cannot object to a bad politician doing the right thing (though of course that does not mean I would vote for them).

lawnchair_larry 13y ago

Birgitta Jonsdottir, member of parliament in Iceland and the woman extending this offer (edit: she doesn't have authority to offer asylum, so reaching out to offer assistance is more accurate), was previously the subject of these secret orders, which were served on all of the major tech companies. The only reason she knows is because Twitter actually challenged the gag order and managed to get it unsealed (MAJOR respect to twitter, they deserve credit for this), which is the only time that has happened. Several others who were supporters of Wikileaks had these served as well. "The information demanded by the DOJ is sweeping in scope. It includes all mailing addresses and billing information known for the user, all connection records and session times, all IP addresses used to access Twitter, all known email accounts, as well as the "means and source of payment," including banking records and credit cards. It seeks all of that information for the period beginning November 1, 2009, through the present" This is why the "protecting the country from terrorists" rhetoric is bullshit and should be ignored. They'll sweep up anything from anyone who has any success in opposing or embarrassing them. That's why this cannot be allowed to happen in secret. Once they have your entire life, it doesn't matter who you are, they'll find something. If not, they'll harass you for years. While only five people were individually named, according to lawyer Mark Stephens the order effectively entailed the collection in relation to criminal prosecution of the personal identifying information of over six hundred thousand Twitter users, namely those who were "followers" of WikiLeaks. They claim this type of activity is only for specific, targeted individuals, but apparently to them, that means things like "anyone following @wikileaks on twitter".

malandrew 13y ago
Who were the other four people named?
- tlrobinson 13y ago
  Julian Assange, Bradley Manning, Birgitta Jonsdottir, Jacob Appelbaum and Rop Gonggrijp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks-related_Twitter_subpoenas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks-related_Twitter_subpo...

untog 13y ago

Slightly off-topic question, but why did he not just go to Iceland in the first place? Hong Kong does not seem like the best destination here.

lawnchair_larry 13y ago
He has probably considered that and knows more than we do about what his strategy is. He probably hasn't shown his whole hand either. He might not even be in Hong Kong.
- mehmehshoe 13y ago
  This. We are seeing reports that are hours old. How he released the NSA data was thought about long ago. I doubt he is in HongKong.
  - samstave 13y ago
    Totally - welcome to the farking cyberpunk future we all dreamed about in the 80s. THis is amazing.
- untog 13y ago
  If he lied to The Guardian I would be very surprised. It would be unlikely to help his case.
  - cozeulodorieso 13y ago
    I don't think you've been paying attention. Glenn Greenwald (who writes for the Guardian) and Laura Poitras (who's independent, but has had bylines for both the Guardian and WP) interviewed him in his hotel room in Hong Kong. He definitely was in Hong Kong for a while.
    - untog 13y ago
      That was kind of my point. I wasn't the one who said "he might not even be in Hong Kong."

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

tagabek 13y ago

Mildly off topic question: How common are asylum applications submitted? How often are they accepted?

beggi 13y ago

FYI: Birgitta is in a minority opposition party (The Icelandic pirate party) with 3 representatives out of 63. Given the ruling government's track record, both regarding refugees seeking asylum as well as a strong will to have good relations with the U.S., I find it highly unlikely he will be given asylum in Iceland. Now, Bobby Fischer was given an asylum in Iceland in 2006 in a unanimous parliament vote - but that was without great objections from the U.S. This is (obviously) a completely different thing.

SagelyGuru 13y ago
Perhaps Snowden will not be given asylum this time but you bet that the Pirate Party, the only official political movement on his side, will have more than 3 members of parliament after the next election.
- Ihmahr 13y ago
  Yes, we hope so. But that is up to the icelandic people and whether or not they care.

znowi 13y ago

This is very nice of Jonsdottir, but given the current conservative government in Iceland, I doubt it is a safe place for Snowden. In fact, given how widespread the American influence is, I can't think of a safe country for him. Apart from Ecuadorian embassy-like hideouts.

ekr 13y ago

On an unrelated note, there's this petition on the White House website, in need of signatures : https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...

cheald 13y ago
Does anyone actually believe that that'll have any positive impact on this situation whatsoever? Maybe I'm just jaded, but "clicktivism" seems like it's just about the least valuable way you could possibly make a political statement.

mseebach 13y ago

The funny thing is, if the US had only treated Bradley Manning 'decently' (ie. as they would any other criminal suspect), the case for asylum would be exceedingly poor - he openly admits to committing a crime, and that simply isn't grounds for asylum. But the Bradley Manning case shows that those under prosecution for that kind of crime will be subjected to 'extra-legal' treatment that it can well be argued amounts to 'persecution' (which is the requirement in the UN convention on refugees).