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Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
- opinali 13y agoPlease fix the typo "a a full"...
- beloch 13y agoIt may as well read: Sign here to admit you are treasonous terrorist-loving scum who should be under constant surveillance by the NSA for the protection of all fine, upstanding, compliant 'merican citizens.
- wavefunction 13y agoThey apparently already think that about us, so why not put it on the line. When we say "put your John Hancock" on it, there's a reason...
- riggins 13y agoI don't understand your comment. Are you suggesting it's stupid to sign this petition because doing so is asking for trouble?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoFine with me. Hell, petition to award Snowden the Presidential Medal of Freedom and Congressional Gold Medal.
- alan_cx 13y agoYou already potentially are. That is why the US gov spies industrially on its own people.
- saraid216 13y agoNah, they know that the people who'd sign a petition like this aren't a threat whatsoever.
- tome 13y agoIsn't it a bit soon for this? We don't even know if he's released anything of substantial value. As I understand it Glenn Greenwald is retaining the "best" for later.
- jlgreco 13y agoIf his leak was not of particular value, then he is more deserving of punishment? This would have a chilling effect on leaking, to say the least. Miscalculating the public's capacity to care should not increase your sentence.
- tome 13y agoYou're right that there is a certain paradox in what I wrote. "If he has leaked something of value to America and the world then he should not be punished. But if he has leaked nothing of value then there was no need for it to be secret, and he should not be punished!" I dunno. At the very least it would be nice to have the evidence out in full before jumping to conclusions.
- benatkin 13y agoNo, because by the time they have to post a response, the dust will have settled.
- codehalo 13y agoIt is the government that should be petitioning the public and the planet for a pardon.
- tome 13y agoThat would be an interesting world to live in.
- codezero 13y agoThis seems like a bit much. Why not a petition not to prosecute him, or not to extradite him? A blanket free-ride for any and all crimes just won't ever happen. What if he murdered several people along the way, let's say they weren't government employees or involved in PRISM at all, does that mean he should be pardoned for that? The language on this petition needs serious work to get real support, or to have a reasonable chance of being addressed.
- jlgreco 13y ago"Edward Snowden is a national hero and should be immediately issued a a full, free, and absolute pardon for any crimes he has committed or may have committed related to blowing the whistle on secret NSA surveillance programs." If Edward Snowden murdered people that were not government employees or involved in PRISM, then that plainly would not be crimes related to blowing the whistle on secret NSA surveillance programs. If it was at all ambiguous, it could be argued in court.
- codezero 13y agoNot necessarily, also, I was using an extreme example to make a point, I can imagine many scenarios where he killed a civilian "related to blowing the whistle," but since that obvious exaggeration failed to get my point across I'll move along.
- gggggggg 13y agoWhy would it be only a one day partition. One day to reach 100,000.
- zainny 13y agoOne month.
- gggggggg 13y agoMy mistake, thanks.
- aba_sababa 13y agoBelieve it's a month long.
- detcader 13y agoWe're going to have to go to the streets to do this. This is something where a government needs to see physical people to be swayed.
- swalsh 13y agoThe sole purpose of these petitions is to collect mailing lists for people concerned about specific issues. Here is an example where I may not want to be associated with... though I guess they probably have access to my bank accounts, and taxes, and can see I donate to the EFF every year... on a separate note, I really do worry about the well being of this guy.
- RivieraKid 13y agoNo, it isn't.
- btilly 13y agoThanks for creating this. Signed. How many others dare to let the administration know your opinion about transparency?
- samstave 13y agoShould submit it with many public figures public email address: zuck@fb.com etc...
- user24 13y agoFirefox can't find the server at petitions.whitehouse.gov.
- logn 13y agoShow support and solidarity. I submitted this about changing GitHub avatars: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5850659 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5850659
- dopamean 13y agoLike I'm actually going to sign that...
- nikcub 13y agoYou need to have been convicted to receive a pardon, the petition should be not to prosecute. Despite the semantics, this is a good idea to let the administration know that a lot of citizens do not consider what Snowden did to be a crime and support his actions.
- dpearson 13y agoNixon received a "full, free, and absolute pardon" from Gerald Ford [0], despite not actually having even stood trial, let alone having been convicted. [0]: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26847.html http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26847.html
- Tloewald 13y agoIt's not clear if this would have stood up in court, since Nixon was never prosecuted.
- dpearson 13y agoHowever, when the president of the United States issues a pardon, even one that is of questionable legality, it's still a powerful statement: Ford placed the power and influence of the Oval Office in between Nixon and any prosecutor. This petition suggests a similar maneuver with Obama and Snowden.
- dak1 13y agoIn 1866, the Supreme Court ruled in Ex parte Garland that the pardon power "extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment."
- thaumasiotes 13y agoA petition not to prosecute, even if it was granted, would be worthless. If someone's pardoned, then they can't be prosecuted again. If they're just not-prosecuted, they can easily be prosecuted later.
- desireco42 13y agoI see signatures growing at steady clip, I am happy. This witch hunt where rapist are walking and decent people get locked up is not right.
- pvnick 13y agoHave to put your full name in to sign (I did). Ominous captcha: http://i.imgur.com/P0Ff5Kd.jpg http://i.imgur.com/P0Ff5Kd.jpg
- wslh 13y agoWhy can't I login with my Google or Facebook accounts? :-)
- abductee 13y agolol
- dylangs1030 13y agoI don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what it can achieve. Do you want change? Show the government how badly you want it. Fight for your rights. Don't just click a link. They've demonstrated they don't care for the voice of the people. So change the domain to something they do care about.
- jfoutz 13y agoJust to be clear, which law was it that you think they broke? I'd happily agree what the NSA did was just as wrong as, say, making it to easy to get mortgages. But the law and morality don't always agree.
- samstave 13y agoTaxation without representation. Personally, I think that anyone against this should show a civil disobedience by refusing to pay taxes.
- WildUtah 13y ago"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
- joeblau 13y agoIt's a trap by the NSA!
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- rdl 13y agoA trial would be FAR better for everyone, at least if it happened openly (which it wouldn't) Imagine the US Government having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this disclosure caused "exceptionally grave damage to US national security."
- amirmc 13y agoIf it got that far I wouldn't be surprised if they claimed to have strong and compelling evidence of grave harm ... But cannot reveal it due to security concerns.
- timberlane 13y agoPlease sign this petition now. Upvoting and discussion on HN is important, but if 50% of the people who read this take 30 seconds to sign the petition, it could truly help.
- parollo 13y agowomen and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children why won't someone think of the women and children women and children WOMEN AND CHILDREN women and children why aren't you crying yet (referred to this thread -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5846391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5846391) (i'll keep posting this, enjoy)
- wavefunction 13y agoDon't worry, this means an awful lot to many out here, even in America
- xelipe 13y agoI would sign the petition to pardon Edward Snowden but to create an account they require an email address and I didn't want that to be tracked.
- apsec112 13y agowww.hushmail.com
- apsec112 13y agoThis won't do any good. White House policy is to not comment directly on pardons, but to direct such petitioners to the Office of the Pardon Attorney (http://www.justice.gov/pardon/ http://www.justice.gov/pardon/). See eg. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/grant-full-pardon-chris-williams-man-facing-80-years-prison-legally-growing-medical-marijuana/PgtWfvFg https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/grant-full-pardon-..., a past pardon petition.
- tokenadult 13y agoI'm still making my mind up about what I think about the activities of Edward Snowden. (I was just reading some of the press coverage about him, especially the extensive story about him in The Guardian.) And I am on record here on HN sharing information about mass popular movements to fight tyranny https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5840000 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5840000 and commenting on cases I have personally observed and participated in of turning a country from dictatorship with a secret police including political assassins into a representative democracy with a free press, fair elections, and independent judiciary, and constitutionally protected civil liberties. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5844864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5844864 That said, I am also on record somewhere on HN expressing the general opinion that it is pointless for us to submit White House petitions here as new stories. That's not really on-topic for HN, and it's not clear to me (in light of my knowledge of what kind of protest movements have worked in the past to overcome dictatorships) that posting a White House petition here does any good in the real world. Your opinion may differ, but I offer the thought that we have better means http://www.aeinstein.org/organizationsde07.html http://www.aeinstein.org/organizationsde07.html of tackling your concern about government data-gathering programs than posting White House petitions. If you like the petitions, share them in your social networks in which you see your friends, but discuss the real, powerful democracy hacker tools here.
- aj700 13y agoThis should be read as an indictment of what the site has become, not just an example of it. "Where's the petition to NOT pardon him!!" I will do it. I will ragequit. This site is turning into a libertarian silicon valley version of freerepublic. When you've found civilisation, America, in 1000 years or so you'll realise that autoritarianism works and that's why you've got it. If we had a fascist government, everyone would be in prison except me. I'm sick of the police failing to do their job because they don't know that it IS: to provide a level playing field, that I can see, so I have no need or temptation to cheat in the first place. As an average HN reader, you know this is correct. Ever been pulled over for speeding on a road where everyone else gets away with worse? Until the state STOPS the bad guys having all the fun, you, the state, down to every beat cop, haven't done this. More government now. Much much much much more. Make 50% of the population into prison officers and cops if necessary. There'll be zero unemployment. Well whaddya know. The great recession has caused Europeans to return to fascism. Way to go Dick Fuld(!) @pg : either ban all politics from the site or deal with the fires of hell that start in 5 4 3 2 1 Hi there NSA readers, keep it up.
- oinksoft 13y agoWhy not just stand up and cool off? The focus of the story is privacy on the internet, and predictably it gets huge play on this website.
- repler 13y agoYou'd think that the crowd who reads hacker news would understand that the data on Twitter, Facebook, and Google is not their own property. You are not entitled to outrage over data you freely gave away. And the NSA has had domestic phone metadata since the 1970's, the only thing different is the speed and scale. The real focus should be on the guy who gave up state secrets and then defected to China. Did he make some kind of deal? There were a dozen better ways to handle the abuse he perceived at the NSA - he chose what was most convenient for him. He does not get my respect, and he is certainly not a hero.
- bifrost 13y ago> This site is turning into a libertarian silicon valley version of freerepublic GOOD!
- rd108 13y agoWeb tools finally able to tip the balance of government more towards direct democracy rather than representative. Signed. eventually, these networked tools will threaten to snowball into actual political change, and their makers will shut them down. but it's pretty easy to make a clone once people have an expectation that this is how government should work.
- Xanza 13y agoThere's a lot of negativity in this thread, so I'll simply say two things. 1) If you do nothing, nothing will change. Protesting might not be the best choice, but it's better than no action at all. This petition will change absolutely nothing, especially if it only reaches the minimum required signatures. There are 311,000,000 people in the United States which means a menial 100,000 signatures accounts for 0.0003215434% of the total population. Not even 0.01%. 2) Martin Luther King Jr changed the course of a nation with civil disobedience. To say it can't be done again is ignorant and foolish.
- skcin7 13y agoI find it an oxymoron that you have to sign up for an account to a government website to sign a petition asking for them to stop invading my privacy. Maybe I'm just being cynical.
- ndesaulniers 13y agoIf you sign the petition, your name goes on another list, too. ;)
- inselkampf 13y agoDon't you have to be convicted first before you can be pardoned?
- kevinSuttle 13y agoA pardon implies that someone broke the law. This isn't the case here.
- MikeKusold 13y agoIn the West Wing, a US TV Show that is no longer on air after 8 seasons, the White House communications director leaked to the press that the US had a military space shuttle. He leaked this so that astronauts on board a disabled shuttle could be rescued. In the TV show, the public generally agreed with what he did and treated him as a hero. (This is where the relevant part comes into play) Before the communications director was unceremoniously fired by the President, the President told the communications director: "When you walk out of here, there'll be people out there, perhaps a great many, who'll think of you as a hero. I just don't for a moment want you thinking I'll be one of them." (disclaimer/spoiler: The communications director was pardoned by the President after much deliberation on the President's part. This was mainly due to his very close friendship, and the fact that the communications director had a family on the way)
- jwatte 13y agoThere is no way this petition can succeed. The powers that be speak realpolitik, and you don't. It's just that, with easier worldwide media outlets, their secrecy is occasionally exposed for a brief while until we forget. Go home. Get on with your life. If you're not already playing in the big leagues, there is literally nothing you can do.
- Myrmornis 13y agoMark Zuckerberg should apologize for calling the press reports stemming from Snowden's actions "outrageous".
- eupharis 13y agoThis is the perfect distillation of everything that is right and hopeful and beautiful about the internet.
- joelthelion 13y agoTo everyone saying the petition is useless: It's a good start. If enough people sign, it will force the administration to answer the petition. Even if it doesn't push the administration to give a positive answer, it can help fuel more protests and actions.
- flyinRyan 13y agoIt doesn't force anything. The petition can be completely ignored, some bullshit answer given, etc., etc. How many more ineffective petitions will you people piss away your time with before you understand it's just a distraction?
- daughart 13y agoThis petition has less of a chance than the one about building a death star.