4 ms·

Go on Larry, run it into the ground! You may not care about this, owning your own personal Hawaiian island, but there's a reason people give a shit about Bill

Go on Larry, run it into the ground! You may not care about this, owning your own personal Hawaiian island, but there's a reason people give a shit about Bill Gates and even that notorious asshole Steve Jobs, but you, you're just an object of derision!

michaelwww 13y ago
> Steve Jobs De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est (“Of the dead nothing but good is to be said”)
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  This is not a correction, as the provided translation is fine. But because I have a personal interest in the subject, here's one that tracks the Latin a little more closely: De mortuis [On the dead, ] nil [nothing] nisi bonum [unless it is good] dicendum est [should be said].
  - michaelwww 13y ago
    I've heard this phrase floating around my whole life, so I was prompted to look it up on Wikipedia. I used the freer translation. According to Wikipedia, it's a Greek aphorism τὸν τεθνηκóτα μὴ κακολογεῖν (“Don’t badmouth a dead man”) attributed to Chilon of Sparta (ca. 600 BC), one of the Seven Sages of Greece. As for Ellison, I think the Christian warning about mammon applies: "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." - Matthew 6:19-21,24 (KJV)
  - asveikau 13y ago
    Been a while, but I was taught that the gerund in Latin implied worthiness. So "dicendum" could be "worth saying".
    - thaumasiotes 13y ago
      I find it unlikely (though I have no Latin training beyond high school). That "dicendum" isn't appearing by itself; it's part of a syntactic construction, the horribly named 'passive periphrastic' with "est". http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/latinlearning/qt/passiveperiphra.htm http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/latinlearning/qt/passivep... As that page notes, it's the same construction as in "Carthago delenda est [Carthage must be destroyed]".
      - asveikau 13y ago
        It would seem that Wikipedia agrees with my interpretation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerundive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerundive > It is used to indicate that someone or something (the referent of the noun it modifies) needs or deserves to be the object of an action. Also some of this spills into common names of people today: > The name Amanda is the feminine gerundive of amare ("to love"), and thus means roughly ... "worthy of being loved", ... Similarly with the name Miranda; ... "worthy of admiration" ...
- PakG1 13y ago
  So Steve Jobs' reality distortion field should be able to have everlasting effect then? He was an asshole by all accounts in the workplace (I won't extend this comment to his personal life because on accounts, he seemed nice in his personal life). He was demanding, hard-driving, effective, and generally right. But he was an asshole. I don't think he gave a damn what people thought about his personality, because he could often say he was right. That doesn't change the fact that he was an asshole by all accounts in the workplace.
  - michaelwww 13y ago
    Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just stating the wisdom of the ages (Western Civ.) I would say it means the dead can't defend themselves. The dead are retired from the game and resting in peace. I would also guess that it means you should take your fight to the living acolytes where your words might have more effect. Also, I don't see Jobs' reality distortion field having much influence anymore: Apple seems adrift.
    - PakG1 13y ago
      To be clear, I wasn't shooting the messenger, only the messenger's message. You'll note I didn't do any shooting at you directly. :) And I think there is a lot to be gained from learning from dead people, both their positives and negatives. Whether or not they can defend themselves is of little consequence to me, as I think they can contribute many lessons to society from beyond the grave if society is allowed to examine their past lives.
      - michaelwww 13y ago
        I didn't feel shot at, and I agree with you that we can learn from the dead. Calling Steve an asshole at this point doesn't seem right to me. Another phrase comes to mind is "Let us now praise famous men," which Wikipedia tells me is from a passage in the Wisdom of Sirach (2nd century B.C.) that begins, "Let us now praise famous men, and our fathers that begat us." I better get off this kick because I have work to do! The wisdom of the ages is a fascinating subject though.
- meatsock 13y ago
  To the living we owe respect, but to the dead we owe only the truth. -voltaire
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    Cheers, that's a wonderful quote.
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    And the truth is usually much more complex than a quick message like that allows. It's easy to forget, but even very powerful people are just people and are prone to each and every failing less powerful humans, such as you and I, are.
melling 13y ago
Maybe next time you should wait before shooting from the hip with some pointless rant. Other people have already provided some real insight into the issue. It doesn't sound like it's a major issue. Larry just wants people to pay or do the work themselves, if they're going to lag behind on older versions. It costs him extra money and development wasted time. He should make it even more painful so companies must upgrade. When I hear people tell me they're still using Java 1.4, I find it very hard to think they're not being extremely lazy.
- chii 13y ago
  > they're still using Java 1.4, I find it very hard to think they're not being extremely lazy. or they are running an app that they either don't have the source, or don't have the budget to update.
  - lttlrck 13y ago
    Or don't need to. A decade is not so long.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  If you knew me IRL, you'd know that's not my MO (not shooting from the hip with a rant, though there was a point to it, sir) Besides, like you said, there were other people to provide real insight into the issue. My post was just what it was, and you can downvote it accordingly...
- eli 13y ago
  Old runtime == "extremely lazy"? Who's shooting from the hip now?
  - arkitaip 13y ago
    1.4 was released in 2002. If you haven't updated your code in over a DECADE, you are being incredibly lazy or incompetent.
    - 13y ago

michaelwww 13y ago

> Steve Jobs De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est (“Of the dead nothing but good is to be said”)

thaumasiotes 13y ago
This is not a correction, as the provided translation is fine. But because I have a personal interest in the subject, here's one that tracks the Latin a little more closely: De mortuis [On the dead, ] nil [nothing] nisi bonum [unless it is good] dicendum est [should be said].
- michaelwww 13y ago
  I've heard this phrase floating around my whole life, so I was prompted to look it up on Wikipedia. I used the freer translation. According to Wikipedia, it's a Greek aphorism τὸν τεθνηκóτα μὴ κακολογεῖν (“Don’t badmouth a dead man”) attributed to Chilon of Sparta (ca. 600 BC), one of the Seven Sages of Greece. As for Ellison, I think the Christian warning about mammon applies: "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." - Matthew 6:19-21,24 (KJV)
- asveikau 13y ago
  Been a while, but I was taught that the gerund in Latin implied worthiness. So "dicendum" could be "worth saying".
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    I find it unlikely (though I have no Latin training beyond high school). That "dicendum" isn't appearing by itself; it's part of a syntactic construction, the horribly named 'passive periphrastic' with "est". http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/latinlearning/qt/passiveperiphra.htm http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/latinlearning/qt/passivep... As that page notes, it's the same construction as in "Carthago delenda est [Carthage must be destroyed]".
    - asveikau 13y ago
      It would seem that Wikipedia agrees with my interpretation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerundive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerundive > It is used to indicate that someone or something (the referent of the noun it modifies) needs or deserves to be the object of an action. Also some of this spills into common names of people today: > The name Amanda is the feminine gerundive of amare ("to love"), and thus means roughly ... "worthy of being loved", ... Similarly with the name Miranda; ... "worthy of admiration" ...
PakG1 13y ago
So Steve Jobs' reality distortion field should be able to have everlasting effect then? He was an asshole by all accounts in the workplace (I won't extend this comment to his personal life because on accounts, he seemed nice in his personal life). He was demanding, hard-driving, effective, and generally right. But he was an asshole. I don't think he gave a damn what people thought about his personality, because he could often say he was right. That doesn't change the fact that he was an asshole by all accounts in the workplace.
- michaelwww 13y ago
  Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just stating the wisdom of the ages (Western Civ.) I would say it means the dead can't defend themselves. The dead are retired from the game and resting in peace. I would also guess that it means you should take your fight to the living acolytes where your words might have more effect. Also, I don't see Jobs' reality distortion field having much influence anymore: Apple seems adrift.
  - PakG1 13y ago
    To be clear, I wasn't shooting the messenger, only the messenger's message. You'll note I didn't do any shooting at you directly. :) And I think there is a lot to be gained from learning from dead people, both their positives and negatives. Whether or not they can defend themselves is of little consequence to me, as I think they can contribute many lessons to society from beyond the grave if society is allowed to examine their past lives.
    - michaelwww 13y ago
      I didn't feel shot at, and I agree with you that we can learn from the dead. Calling Steve an asshole at this point doesn't seem right to me. Another phrase comes to mind is "Let us now praise famous men," which Wikipedia tells me is from a passage in the Wisdom of Sirach (2nd century B.C.) that begins, "Let us now praise famous men, and our fathers that begat us." I better get off this kick because I have work to do! The wisdom of the ages is a fascinating subject though.
meatsock 13y ago
To the living we owe respect, but to the dead we owe only the truth. -voltaire
- wavefunction 13y ago
  Cheers, that's a wonderful quote.
- rbanffy 13y ago
  And the truth is usually much more complex than a quick message like that allows. It's easy to forget, but even very powerful people are just people and are prone to each and every failing less powerful humans, such as you and I, are.

melling 13y ago

Maybe next time you should wait before shooting from the hip with some pointless rant. Other people have already provided some real insight into the issue. It doesn't sound like it's a major issue. Larry just wants people to pay or do the work themselves, if they're going to lag behind on older versions. It costs him extra money and development wasted time. He should make it even more painful so companies must upgrade. When I hear people tell me they're still using Java 1.4, I find it very hard to think they're not being extremely lazy.

chii 13y ago
> they're still using Java 1.4, I find it very hard to think they're not being extremely lazy. or they are running an app that they either don't have the source, or don't have the budget to update.
- lttlrck 13y ago
  Or don't need to. A decade is not so long.
wavefunction 13y ago
If you knew me IRL, you'd know that's not my MO (not shooting from the hip with a rant, though there was a point to it, sir) Besides, like you said, there were other people to provide real insight into the issue. My post was just what it was, and you can downvote it accordingly...
eli 13y ago
Old runtime == "extremely lazy"? Who's shooting from the hip now?
- arkitaip 13y ago
  1.4 was released in 2002. If you haven't updated your code in over a DECADE, you are being incredibly lazy or incompetent.
  - 13y ago