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The key issue here is that Google and the other companies may have no idea this is going on. My read is that the NSA has managed to gain access to the data cen

The key issue here is that Google and the other companies may have no idea this is going on. My read is that the NSA has managed to gain access to the data centers either through inside help, spy craft, hardware/router back doors, or some other means we have no idea about.

macchina 13y ago
It's hard for me to believe they could access to the data centers without Google's knowledge. Isn't it more plausible that they're intercepting data flowing in and out of Google servers?
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  an old time option - a few employees "compelled" to provide access and keep mouth shout. a new time option - Larry is lying because of the gag order. in between - Larry said "on such scale". Well, Google probably is of a bigger scale than Verizon. Anyway, once the data is out there, it is only a matter of time and determination for a government (or any financially well backed up player) to get to it. This scandal will be a great boost for any services involving "crypto", and probably would spring a new ones like an encrypted phone exchange/switch service, where one can see incoming and outcoming phone numbers, yet not which one connected to which :)
- bigiain 13y ago
  Hmmm… <conspiracy theory> We haven't seen posts from the CEOs of Cisco/Juniper/Dell/HP or other manufacturers of datacenter grade network equipment. Who needs Google/Facebook's "knowledge" if you've got root on all the border network gear (and SSL termination hardware)? I know here in .au, Huawei have been excluded from the government-deployed National Broadband Network due to suspicions that the Chinese government has too much control/access to Huawei newtwork hardware.
  - infographic- 13y ago
    Huawei's exclusion was based purely on FUD. There was no evidence to suggest such a thing.
- wyck 13y ago
  This was my initial assumption, that Prism referred to fiber optic prisms that are used to duplicate data with zero interference. These can be installed at the trunk level with virtually no one knowing about it (maybe a couple of on site managers). They can handle massive data and pipe it directly to the NSA. The problem of course is you're dealing with raw data which isn't nearly as easy to work with then if you had direct access to internals. These are already installed on every major backbone so I also don't see why they would bother to involve anyone, so there must be more to it. ps. It would be nice if another whistleblower came out with the data on optic splitters and how the NSA uses them.
djim 13y ago
possible the timeline on the slide is when NSA successfully began making sense of the raw data they could be collecting at internet backbones? also possible that the document purposefully threw the public off track by implicating these players, thus limiting the legitimacy of the claim if it ever came to light?
adventured 13y ago
AT&T and Verizon are two of the most powerful companies in the US, and have massive lobbying power. The notion that those companies were compelled to sign on to huge espionage programs, with their chiefs being fully aware of it - but yet somehow Facebook / Google / Microsoft / Apple etc. did not have to sign on to anything related to Prism (which has been openly admitted to exist by the Feds), nor were they aware of anything, is just about impossible.
tomkarlo 13y ago
Consider the sheer volume of data we're talking about here. Unless you think these companies would miss a fiber optic trunk running out the back door of their data centers, does that make any sense?
- adventured 13y ago
  The Feds have direct taps into every major telecom carrier in the US. You can't fire off a search query to Google without the Feds technically being able to pick it up. Access is trivial, volume is a much more interesting problem.
  - zero_intp 13y ago
    This is accurate. When your service provider is having a scheduled maintenance, it might be a passive optical tap or port replicator.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  How much data is leaving? There could be a lot less data leaving than you think.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]

macchina 13y ago

It's hard for me to believe they could access to the data centers without Google's knowledge. Isn't it more plausible that they're intercepting data flowing in and out of Google servers?

VladRussian2 13y ago
an old time option - a few employees "compelled" to provide access and keep mouth shout. a new time option - Larry is lying because of the gag order. in between - Larry said "on such scale". Well, Google probably is of a bigger scale than Verizon. Anyway, once the data is out there, it is only a matter of time and determination for a government (or any financially well backed up player) to get to it. This scandal will be a great boost for any services involving "crypto", and probably would spring a new ones like an encrypted phone exchange/switch service, where one can see incoming and outcoming phone numbers, yet not which one connected to which :)
bigiain 13y ago
Hmmm… <conspiracy theory> We haven't seen posts from the CEOs of Cisco/Juniper/Dell/HP or other manufacturers of datacenter grade network equipment. Who needs Google/Facebook's "knowledge" if you've got root on all the border network gear (and SSL termination hardware)? I know here in .au, Huawei have been excluded from the government-deployed National Broadband Network due to suspicions that the Chinese government has too much control/access to Huawei newtwork hardware.
- infographic- 13y ago
  Huawei's exclusion was based purely on FUD. There was no evidence to suggest such a thing.
wyck 13y ago
This was my initial assumption, that Prism referred to fiber optic prisms that are used to duplicate data with zero interference. These can be installed at the trunk level with virtually no one knowing about it (maybe a couple of on site managers). They can handle massive data and pipe it directly to the NSA. The problem of course is you're dealing with raw data which isn't nearly as easy to work with then if you had direct access to internals. These are already installed on every major backbone so I also don't see why they would bother to involve anyone, so there must be more to it. ps. It would be nice if another whistleblower came out with the data on optic splitters and how the NSA uses them.

djim 13y ago

possible the timeline on the slide is when NSA successfully began making sense of the raw data they could be collecting at internet backbones? also possible that the document purposefully threw the public off track by implicating these players, thus limiting the legitimacy of the claim if it ever came to light?

adventured 13y ago

AT&T and Verizon are two of the most powerful companies in the US, and have massive lobbying power. The notion that those companies were compelled to sign on to huge espionage programs, with their chiefs being fully aware of it - but yet somehow Facebook / Google / Microsoft / Apple etc. did not have to sign on to anything related to Prism (which has been openly admitted to exist by the Feds), nor were they aware of anything, is just about impossible.

tomkarlo 13y ago

Consider the sheer volume of data we're talking about here. Unless you think these companies would miss a fiber optic trunk running out the back door of their data centers, does that make any sense?

adventured 13y ago
The Feds have direct taps into every major telecom carrier in the US. You can't fire off a search query to Google without the Feds technically being able to pick it up. Access is trivial, volume is a much more interesting problem.
- zero_intp 13y ago
  This is accurate. When your service provider is having a scheduled maintenance, it might be a passive optical tap or port replicator.
einhverfr 13y ago
How much data is leaving? There could be a lot less data leaving than you think.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]