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The article makes it sound exactly like what it seems to be -- that the thieves are using an exploit that they don't know, and thus they want to know. One of th

The article makes it sound exactly like what it seems to be -- that the thieves are using an exploit that they don't know, and thus they want to know. One of the guys quoted makes a profession out of this and he doesn't know what they're doing. But apparently lots of people on HN do.

mindcrime 13y ago
Nobody here has claimed to know exactly what exploit the thieves are using. But a lot of people are claiming (rightly) that general knowledge that these car systems have vulnerabilities is widespread. And that point is what seemed, to me, to be missing from TFA. If TFA had given some more context, and said "exploits which would allow this type of access were shown at a recent hacker conference, and some cars have known exploitable vulnerabilities... but we don't know if this crop of thieves are using that or a newer, unpublished exploit" then it would, IMO, have been a better article. Instead, it leaves people with the idea that this whole concept (hacking cars) is something brand new, unknown, and unexpected. And it's not.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- DigitalJack 13y ago
  It's certainly unexpected by the general public.
  - pyre 13y ago
    But not to the professionals (car thieves, police, etc).
  - bsaunder 13y ago
    There's much that goes on in the technology world that surprises the general public that doesn't surprise people here. This is more of the same.
  - jtheory 13y ago
    The general public thinks that if you open a jar and the lid goes "pop" that means it hasn't been opened before. Of course, elementary school science is enough to figure out that if you bought a jar of apple juice from the store, replaced some of the contents with hot goat urine and shook it up before fully closing the lid again, as the air inside cooled it would pull the clicker back down. And you could return it to the store. But if I read an article about mysterious tampering with "unopened" products in local grocery stores, I hope the police (and particularly, food packaging or food security experts) wouldn't be so baffled about it when discussing it with reporters.
- corresation 13y ago
  But a lot of people are claiming (rightly) that general knowledge that these car systems have vulnerabilities is widespread. So you have a device that can open random car doors in seconds? Do you know where to get one? Do you know anyone who has one? The police apparently don't (and the police almost certainly know far more about crimes and how they are performed than you and most other HNers do). A guy who specializes in car electronics exploits doesn't. So yes, this is a mystery. The counter-argument seems to be some variation of the too-common world-weary-haughtiness that spreads like an infection on HN. Bank closes at night like always. The next morning the manager arrives and finds everything seemingly as it was, but when they look in the safe all of the money missing. Would that qualify as a mystery? Even though people have been robbing banks for centuries, even breaking into safes? Yes, of course it would, though I'm sure there'll be that guy who'll point out the obvious that somehow someone got in the safe.
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    So you have a device that can open random car doors in seconds? Do you know where to get one? Do you know anyone who has one? No, and I haven't claimed to do so. You're just setting up straw-men and attacking them now, and I don't know for what purpose. I've already said that I was talking in terms of a general sentiment that I think I detected in TFA, and not the specifics of this batch of incidents.
  - joe_the_user 13y ago
    open random car doors You've been at this "random car" thing over the whole thread. But there no indication that these thieves can steal random cars in the sense of any car they choose. Thieves have stolen particular cars and the cops might not know the connecting thread but there's no situation where the thieves passed a "show us a random car and we'll use our device to steal it" challenge and that would be the kind of hard evidence you'd need for a "these guys can steel any car" rhetoric.
    - corresation 13y ago
      The police are concerned. Random self-proclaimed experts on HN say it's no big deal. But how about Honda -- do you have a remote door unlock exploit that can do what is being discussed on just Honda vehicles?
- deleted 13y ago
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mindcrime 13y ago

Nobody here has claimed to know exactly what exploit the thieves are using. But a lot of people are claiming (rightly) that general knowledge that these car systems have vulnerabilities is widespread. And that point is what seemed, to me, to be missing from TFA. If TFA had given some more context, and said "exploits which would allow this type of access were shown at a recent hacker conference, and some cars have known exploitable vulnerabilities... but we don't know if this crop of thieves are using that or a newer, unpublished exploit" then it would, IMO, have been a better article. Instead, it leaves people with the idea that this whole concept (hacking cars) is something brand new, unknown, and unexpected. And it's not.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
DigitalJack 13y ago
It's certainly unexpected by the general public.
- pyre 13y ago
  But not to the professionals (car thieves, police, etc).
- bsaunder 13y ago
  There's much that goes on in the technology world that surprises the general public that doesn't surprise people here. This is more of the same.
- jtheory 13y ago
  The general public thinks that if you open a jar and the lid goes "pop" that means it hasn't been opened before. Of course, elementary school science is enough to figure out that if you bought a jar of apple juice from the store, replaced some of the contents with hot goat urine and shook it up before fully closing the lid again, as the air inside cooled it would pull the clicker back down. And you could return it to the store. But if I read an article about mysterious tampering with "unopened" products in local grocery stores, I hope the police (and particularly, food packaging or food security experts) wouldn't be so baffled about it when discussing it with reporters.
corresation 13y ago
But a lot of people are claiming (rightly) that general knowledge that these car systems have vulnerabilities is widespread. So you have a device that can open random car doors in seconds? Do you know where to get one? Do you know anyone who has one? The police apparently don't (and the police almost certainly know far more about crimes and how they are performed than you and most other HNers do). A guy who specializes in car electronics exploits doesn't. So yes, this is a mystery. The counter-argument seems to be some variation of the too-common world-weary-haughtiness that spreads like an infection on HN. Bank closes at night like always. The next morning the manager arrives and finds everything seemingly as it was, but when they look in the safe all of the money missing. Would that qualify as a mystery? Even though people have been robbing banks for centuries, even breaking into safes? Yes, of course it would, though I'm sure there'll be that guy who'll point out the obvious that somehow someone got in the safe.
- mindcrime 13y ago
  So you have a device that can open random car doors in seconds? Do you know where to get one? Do you know anyone who has one? No, and I haven't claimed to do so. You're just setting up straw-men and attacking them now, and I don't know for what purpose. I've already said that I was talking in terms of a general sentiment that I think I detected in TFA, and not the specifics of this batch of incidents.
- joe_the_user 13y ago
  open random car doors You've been at this "random car" thing over the whole thread. But there no indication that these thieves can steal random cars in the sense of any car they choose. Thieves have stolen particular cars and the cops might not know the connecting thread but there's no situation where the thieves passed a "show us a random car and we'll use our device to steal it" challenge and that would be the kind of hard evidence you'd need for a "these guys can steel any car" rhetoric.
  - corresation 13y ago
    The police are concerned. Random self-proclaimed experts on HN say it's no big deal. But how about Honda -- do you have a remote door unlock exploit that can do what is being discussed on just Honda vehicles?
deleted 13y ago
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