4 ms·

You ask what the big mystery is, and then link to a lot of unrelated hacks/exploits. Yes, the article is that someone hacked/exploited the remote door open spec

You ask what the big mystery is, and then link to a lot of unrelated hacks/exploits. Yes, the article is that someone hacked/exploited the remote door open specifically, apparently on seemingly random cars. It is a mystery how they are doing it, though it is painfully obvious that they are exploiting something.

mindcrime 13y ago
You ask what the big mystery is, and then link to a lot of unrelated hacks/exploits. I don't see how you can say that is "unrelated". Even if our "mystery" thieves aren't using those exact exploits, there is NO "mystery" that hackers have demonstrated the ability to break car remote systems. But the article and the quotes from the police make it sound like the police are just staring at the wall, drooling and going "duuuhhh huhhh huhhhh... how'd they do that.. duhhuhhhh huhhhhh." Now that's probably not literally the case, but the article makes it sound like nobody has even the slightest clue that this stuff is possible, or how it's done. And that's just not true.
- corresation 13y ago
  The article makes it sound exactly like what it seems to be -- that the thieves are using an exploit that they don't know, and thus they want to know. One of the guys quoted makes a profession out of this and he doesn't know what they're doing. But apparently lots of people on HN do.
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    Nobody here has claimed to know exactly what exploit the thieves are using. But a lot of people are claiming (rightly) that general knowledge that these car systems have vulnerabilities is widespread. And that point is what seemed, to me, to be missing from TFA. If TFA had given some more context, and said "exploits which would allow this type of access were shown at a recent hacker conference, and some cars have known exploitable vulnerabilities... but we don't know if this crop of thieves are using that or a newer, unpublished exploit" then it would, IMO, have been a better article. Instead, it leaves people with the idea that this whole concept (hacking cars) is something brand new, unknown, and unexpected. And it's not.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - DigitalJack 13y ago
      It's certainly unexpected by the general public.
      - pyre 13y ago
        But not to the professionals (car thieves, police, etc).
      - bsaunder 13y ago
        There's much that goes on in the technology world that surprises the general public that doesn't surprise people here. This is more of the same.
      - jtheory 13y ago
        The general public thinks that if you open a jar and the lid goes "pop" that means it hasn't been opened before. Of course, elementary school science is enough to figure out that if you bought a jar of apple juice from the store, replaced some of the contents with hot goat urine and shook it up before fully closing the lid again, as the air inside cooled it would pull the clicker back down. And you could return it to the store. But if I read an article about mysterious tampering with "unopened" products in local grocery stores, I hope the police (and particularly, food packaging or food security experts) wouldn't be so baffled about it when discussing it with reporters.
    - corresation 13y ago
      But a lot of people are claiming (rightly) that general knowledge that these car systems have vulnerabilities is widespread. So you have a device that can open random car doors in seconds? Do you know where to get one? Do you know anyone who has one? The police apparently don't (and the police almost certainly know far more about crimes and how they are performed than you and most other HNers do). A guy who specializes in car electronics exploits doesn't. So yes, this is a mystery. The counter-argument seems to be some variation of the too-common world-weary-haughtiness that spreads like an infection on HN. Bank closes at night like always. The next morning the manager arrives and finds everything seemingly as it was, but when they look in the safe all of the money missing. Would that qualify as a mystery? Even though people have been robbing banks for centuries, even breaking into safes? Yes, of course it would, though I'm sure there'll be that guy who'll point out the obvious that somehow someone got in the safe.
- fragmede 13y ago
  > the article makes it sound like nobody has even the slightest clue that this stuff is possible It's almost as if the news has some sort of agenda!
guttermaw 13y ago
I agree. The technique described differs from anything OP linked. The fact that thieves are smashing windows to get at diagnostic ports suggests that this method of entering the vehicle is fairly novel. Exploits have been demonstrated by researchers, but are mostly pretty make/model specific. Certainly, I'd bet that every car with bluetooth/wifi integrated has some sort of flaw whereby it might be possible to use that to bridge to the cars Canbus and request a door unlock. That doesn't mean that these are easily exploitable by individuals willing to commit petty theft.

mindcrime 13y ago

You ask what the big mystery is, and then link to a lot of unrelated hacks/exploits. I don't see how you can say that is "unrelated". Even if our "mystery" thieves aren't using those exact exploits, there is NO "mystery" that hackers have demonstrated the ability to break car remote systems. But the article and the quotes from the police make it sound like the police are just staring at the wall, drooling and going "duuuhhh huhhh huhhhh... how'd they do that.. duhhuhhhh huhhhhh." Now that's probably not literally the case, but the article makes it sound like nobody has even the slightest clue that this stuff is possible, or how it's done. And that's just not true.

corresation 13y ago
The article makes it sound exactly like what it seems to be -- that the thieves are using an exploit that they don't know, and thus they want to know. One of the guys quoted makes a profession out of this and he doesn't know what they're doing. But apparently lots of people on HN do.
- mindcrime 13y ago
  Nobody here has claimed to know exactly what exploit the thieves are using. But a lot of people are claiming (rightly) that general knowledge that these car systems have vulnerabilities is widespread. And that point is what seemed, to me, to be missing from TFA. If TFA had given some more context, and said "exploits which would allow this type of access were shown at a recent hacker conference, and some cars have known exploitable vulnerabilities... but we don't know if this crop of thieves are using that or a newer, unpublished exploit" then it would, IMO, have been a better article. Instead, it leaves people with the idea that this whole concept (hacking cars) is something brand new, unknown, and unexpected. And it's not.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - DigitalJack 13y ago
    It's certainly unexpected by the general public.
    - pyre 13y ago
      But not to the professionals (car thieves, police, etc).
    - bsaunder 13y ago
      There's much that goes on in the technology world that surprises the general public that doesn't surprise people here. This is more of the same.
    - jtheory 13y ago
      The general public thinks that if you open a jar and the lid goes "pop" that means it hasn't been opened before. Of course, elementary school science is enough to figure out that if you bought a jar of apple juice from the store, replaced some of the contents with hot goat urine and shook it up before fully closing the lid again, as the air inside cooled it would pull the clicker back down. And you could return it to the store. But if I read an article about mysterious tampering with "unopened" products in local grocery stores, I hope the police (and particularly, food packaging or food security experts) wouldn't be so baffled about it when discussing it with reporters.
  - corresation 13y ago
    But a lot of people are claiming (rightly) that general knowledge that these car systems have vulnerabilities is widespread. So you have a device that can open random car doors in seconds? Do you know where to get one? Do you know anyone who has one? The police apparently don't (and the police almost certainly know far more about crimes and how they are performed than you and most other HNers do). A guy who specializes in car electronics exploits doesn't. So yes, this is a mystery. The counter-argument seems to be some variation of the too-common world-weary-haughtiness that spreads like an infection on HN. Bank closes at night like always. The next morning the manager arrives and finds everything seemingly as it was, but when they look in the safe all of the money missing. Would that qualify as a mystery? Even though people have been robbing banks for centuries, even breaking into safes? Yes, of course it would, though I'm sure there'll be that guy who'll point out the obvious that somehow someone got in the safe.
fragmede 13y ago
> the article makes it sound like nobody has even the slightest clue that this stuff is possible It's almost as if the news has some sort of agenda!

guttermaw 13y ago

I agree. The technique described differs from anything OP linked. The fact that thieves are smashing windows to get at diagnostic ports suggests that this method of entering the vehicle is fairly novel. Exploits have been demonstrated by researchers, but are mostly pretty make/model specific. Certainly, I'd bet that every car with bluetooth/wifi integrated has some sort of flaw whereby it might be possible to use that to bridge to the cars Canbus and request a door unlock. That doesn't mean that these are easily exploitable by individuals willing to commit petty theft.