4 ms·

> Then I pointed that their prophet had a 9 year old wife The age of Aisha when her marriage to Muhammad was consummated is unknown. Different reports of an ag

> Then I pointed that their prophet had a 9 year old wife The age of Aisha when her marriage to Muhammad was consummated is unknown. Different reports of an age of 9 to 16. > that by the way this girl also wrote good part of their holy book No. She is a Hafez (one who recites the Quran by heart) and among those who helped in the efforts to collect the Quran, she did not _write_ it, or any parts of it. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran#The_Collection_of_the_Qur.27an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran#The_Colle...

speeder 13y ago
16 is still less than 18 (that is what I was arguing about with that friend). And wrote I mean the Hafez part or whatever, I don't know enough about the subject to use correct technical terms like that. For example the Bible (I am christian) has parts of it that were inspired by God, but we still say that whoever put it on the paper is author to simplify some (non-theological) discussions.
- LaGrange 13y ago
  16 years old is also no longer considered minor as far as sex is concerned in many, many countries. A bit on the creepy side for someone on the other side of 20 to date, yes, but not illegal.
  - darkxanthos 13y ago
    Of the age range from 9-16 years old, 3/4s of the ages are 14 or younger and fairly taboo. Picking the age of 16 and invalidating his point is obtuse.
  - darkchasma 13y ago
    Sixteen is still considered a minor in almost all countries. The age of consent is not the same as the age of majority.
    - corin_ 13y ago
      He did say "minor as far as sex is concerned" - i.e. talking about the age of consent.
  - gngeal 13y ago
    A bit on the creepy side for someone on the other side of 20 to date For some people, perhaps. Individuals differ, I've met a few 16yo girls who were very much adult, as far as their intellect, personality and temperament were concerned, and I have a very hard time trying to picture a relationship with someone more mature than an average 20yo male as "creepy".
    - LaGrange 13y ago
      The thing that matters is the power imbalance, which would be nearly always present. This is highly undesirable, as it invalidates consent to a large degree (i.e. while the initial consent might be unquestionable, it gets really murky when things get into withdrawing it). It's similar as with employee-boss relationships and teacher-student. All of those can imaginably be okay, but the amount of dominance that the superior has over their partner makes things at least suspicious. In fact, the "temperament" thing is one of the most commonly invalid, as having the "temperament" higher at 16 than 25 is not really that uncommon, intellect basically stays the same until 30, just gaining experience (!). And yet your 16 year old is (most likely) going to be dependent on their parents, and people will treat the older partner significantly more seriously even if they're a drunken slob, because the younger one is "a child" (and despite the older one being perceived as creepy. Ain't society great?).
- untog 13y ago
  Pretty big difference between 9 and 16, though. Like, say, 16 being the age of consent in most countries. And I've come to the conclusion that if you don't know about someone's religion, it's best not to criticise it, because you might just end up looking like an ignorant idiot.
  - wnight 13y ago
    Pft. Religion can be safely criticized because it's made up.
speeder 13y ago
I cannot downvote you (I dunno why, several people I cannot downvote, others I can... someone know the rules regarding that?) But I am guessing most people that downvoted you, did because you was pedant, not really defending a point. I myself appreciate the correct info... Although I still think the manner done was pedant.
- youngerdryas 13y ago
  You cannot downvote comments that are direct responses to your comment.
heed 13y ago
I am now downvoting you because of your edit.
dinduks 13y ago
Bullshit. He married her at six and had sex with (raped?) her at nine. These are information from "respected" sources and are known by anyone with a bit of knowledge about islam. https://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%AD_%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%84%D9%85_-_%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D9%83%D8%A7%D8%AD#.D8.A8.D8.A7.D8.A8_.D8.AA.D8.B2.D9.88.D9.8A.D8.AC_.D8.A7.D9.84.D8.A3.D8.A8_.D8.A7.D9.84.D8.A8.D9.83.D8.B1_.D8.A7.D9.84.D8.B5.D8.BA.D9.8A.D8.B1.D8.A9 https://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%AD_%D9%...
- qubitsam 13y ago
  I'm not interested in an argument over this, since it's off topic to the OP. My original comment's purpose was to point out the inaccuracies in the comment I replied to. Otherwise, this article [1] is a good read. [1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/m...
  - pbhjpbhj 13y ago
    I'm not surprised you don't want to argue it if your source is that revisionist diatribe. According to the article it's certain that Aisha went on to be an incredible stateswoman but equivalent sources that say she was 9 when [she and] Mohammed consummated their marriage can't be trusted? Also it cunningly ignores Mohammed's [other] documented rapes - like Saffiyah - and breaking of the rules he'd laid down (taking more than 4 wives, taking the wife of his [adopted] son). Such records paint a pretty consistent picture.

speeder 13y ago

16 is still less than 18 (that is what I was arguing about with that friend). And wrote I mean the Hafez part or whatever, I don't know enough about the subject to use correct technical terms like that. For example the Bible (I am christian) has parts of it that were inspired by God, but we still say that whoever put it on the paper is author to simplify some (non-theological) discussions.

LaGrange 13y ago
16 years old is also no longer considered minor as far as sex is concerned in many, many countries. A bit on the creepy side for someone on the other side of 20 to date, yes, but not illegal.
- darkxanthos 13y ago
  Of the age range from 9-16 years old, 3/4s of the ages are 14 or younger and fairly taboo. Picking the age of 16 and invalidating his point is obtuse.
- darkchasma 13y ago
  Sixteen is still considered a minor in almost all countries. The age of consent is not the same as the age of majority.
  - corin_ 13y ago
    He did say "minor as far as sex is concerned" - i.e. talking about the age of consent.
- gngeal 13y ago
  A bit on the creepy side for someone on the other side of 20 to date For some people, perhaps. Individuals differ, I've met a few 16yo girls who were very much adult, as far as their intellect, personality and temperament were concerned, and I have a very hard time trying to picture a relationship with someone more mature than an average 20yo male as "creepy".
  - LaGrange 13y ago
    The thing that matters is the power imbalance, which would be nearly always present. This is highly undesirable, as it invalidates consent to a large degree (i.e. while the initial consent might be unquestionable, it gets really murky when things get into withdrawing it). It's similar as with employee-boss relationships and teacher-student. All of those can imaginably be okay, but the amount of dominance that the superior has over their partner makes things at least suspicious. In fact, the "temperament" thing is one of the most commonly invalid, as having the "temperament" higher at 16 than 25 is not really that uncommon, intellect basically stays the same until 30, just gaining experience (!). And yet your 16 year old is (most likely) going to be dependent on their parents, and people will treat the older partner significantly more seriously even if they're a drunken slob, because the younger one is "a child" (and despite the older one being perceived as creepy. Ain't society great?).
untog 13y ago
Pretty big difference between 9 and 16, though. Like, say, 16 being the age of consent in most countries. And I've come to the conclusion that if you don't know about someone's religion, it's best not to criticise it, because you might just end up looking like an ignorant idiot.
- wnight 13y ago
  Pft. Religion can be safely criticized because it's made up.

speeder 13y ago

I cannot downvote you (I dunno why, several people I cannot downvote, others I can... someone know the rules regarding that?) But I am guessing most people that downvoted you, did because you was pedant, not really defending a point. I myself appreciate the correct info... Although I still think the manner done was pedant.

youngerdryas 13y ago
You cannot downvote comments that are direct responses to your comment.

heed 13y ago

I am now downvoting you because of your edit.

dinduks 13y ago

Bullshit. He married her at six and had sex with (raped?) her at nine. These are information from "respected" sources and are known by anyone with a bit of knowledge about islam. https://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%AD_%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%84%D9%85_-_%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D9%83%D8%A7%D8%AD#.D8.A8.D8.A7.D8.A8_.D8.AA.D8.B2.D9.88.D9.8A.D8.AC_.D8.A7.D9.84.D8.A3.D8.A8_.D8.A7.D9.84.D8.A8.D9.83.D8.B1_.D8.A7.D9.84.D8.B5.D8.BA.D9.8A.D8.B1.D8.A9 https://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%AD_%D9%...

qubitsam 13y ago
I'm not interested in an argument over this, since it's off topic to the OP. My original comment's purpose was to point out the inaccuracies in the comment I replied to. Otherwise, this article [1] is a good read. [1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/m...
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago
  I'm not surprised you don't want to argue it if your source is that revisionist diatribe. According to the article it's certain that Aisha went on to be an incredible stateswoman but equivalent sources that say she was 9 when [she and] Mohammed consummated their marriage can't be trusted? Also it cunningly ignores Mohammed's [other] documented rapes - like Saffiyah - and breaking of the rules he'd laid down (taking more than 4 wives, taking the wife of his [adopted] son). Such records paint a pretty consistent picture.