5 ms·

> If you are ever arrested, don't say a word especially if you are innocent. In the UK (which is where the OA is set) we don't really have that option. The pol

by m0nty 13y ago

> If you are ever arrested, don't say a word especially if you are innocent. In the UK (which is where the OA is set) we don't really have that option. The police will warn you when arrested: "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence." So basically, you're required to mount your own ad-hoc defence when arrested, or "it may harm your defence" in court. This when you might be under extreme emotional stress from the arrest, or the incident which led to it. When your state of mind might be borderline rational or worse. Effectively, we do not have a right to silence.

boothead 13y ago
Surely that questioning has to take place with a lawyer present though? The police can't question you (or get you to say anything) before you've had access to legal advice.... right..?
- cstross 13y ago
  Good luck getting legal aid for a criminal defense in the UK, is all I can say ...
- nicholassmith 13y ago
  Nope, the police can start questioning right away. You can decline to answer without a lawyer, which isn't an admission of guilt and cannot be used as evidence of guilt, then the solicitor can council you on what you can and can't say. However, if during the questioning even with a lawyer present you omit something and use it in court, the prosecution is allowed to say "Well, this is a new piece of evidence" and use it against you however they can, or ask for it to be disallowed. I think. It's been a while since I looked at the strict policy and regular interpretations. Police don't have to wait for a solicitor though, that's up to you and you have to ask for one straight off. If you're in the UK and you are arrested, be very polite with them, ask for a solicitor and wait, even if you know you're innocent. Actually, especially if you know you're innocent.
  - boothead 13y ago
    Bloody hell!
    - nicholassmith 13y ago
      It's worth while taking the time to look up what rights you have under arrest etc: http://www.yourrights.org.uk/ http://www.yourrights.org.uk/
  - nijk 13y ago
    Now you are talking about surprise evidence not disclosed during pretrial discovery, which is a wholly different issue from a right to remain sient.
  - porker 13y ago
    Who pays for the lawyer/solicitor in the UK? Do I have to, even though I'm innocent?
    - nicholassmith 13y ago
      You have to, unless you want to use the duty solicitor who's a free resource. The duty solicitor should be perfectly fine for most situations unless you really actually are guilty, or you think you've been stitched up, to use TV crime drama parlance.
      - darkarmani 13y ago
        > The duty solicitor should be perfectly fine for most situations unless you really actually are guilty But should you choose to use your own solicitor, it may adversely harm your defense, because innocent people use the duty solicitor...
- 6d0debc071 13y ago
  Sure they can, you can even question people without a lawyer present in the states. There's a woman in jail on death row - because a cop that's a known perjurer claimed that she'd broken down and confessed to murdering her kid to him http://www.popehat.com/2013/03/14/the-presumption-of-truth/ http://www.popehat.com/2013/03/14/the-presumption-of-truth/
- rmc 13y ago
  You know the UK doesn't have a constitution in the same sense as the USA? During the recent undeclared civil war in the UK (Northern Ireland), there were many suspensions of civil rights.
  - SEMW 13y ago
    Misleading. Substantive protection of rights in the UK is, overall, as strong or stronger as in the US (weaker in some areas, stronger in others). That the sources of those rights (centuries of common law tradition, ECHR & HRA rights, the EU, and more) aren't a convenient single document with the words "The Constitution" at the top doesn't mean they don't exist.
richardwhiuk 13y ago
As far as I can tell, it's almost never the case that not saying anything prior to talking to a lawyer will actually harm you defence, despite what the police may say.
- dalore 13y ago
  It's different in the UK. If something comes up after the fact that you should have told. See "facts later relied on": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and...
  - shawabawa3 13y ago
    From that link: > no inferences can be drawn from any failure occurring before the accused is allowed an opportunity to consult a legal advisor I would be shocked if they could actually use you refusing to talk without legal advice against you
    - scott_w 13y ago
      They can't. In the UK you are usually asked by the desk sergeant if you want a solicitor before they will question you. Of course, you can be questioned while not being under arrest but again, you can ask for a lawyer before they question you. I can't think a police officer could say in court: "He refused to be questioned before we arrested him" because you're not under any obligation to talk to the police in day-to-day life.
DanBC 13y ago
In England you say something like "I am glad to answer your questions, but I will only do so with a lawyer present".

by m0nty 13y ago

boothead 13y ago

Surely that questioning has to take place with a lawyer present though? The police can't question you (or get you to say anything) before you've had access to legal advice.... right..?

cstross 13y ago
Good luck getting legal aid for a criminal defense in the UK, is all I can say ...
nicholassmith 13y ago
Nope, the police can start questioning right away. You can decline to answer without a lawyer, which isn't an admission of guilt and cannot be used as evidence of guilt, then the solicitor can council you on what you can and can't say. However, if during the questioning even with a lawyer present you omit something and use it in court, the prosecution is allowed to say "Well, this is a new piece of evidence" and use it against you however they can, or ask for it to be disallowed. I think. It's been a while since I looked at the strict policy and regular interpretations. Police don't have to wait for a solicitor though, that's up to you and you have to ask for one straight off. If you're in the UK and you are arrested, be very polite with them, ask for a solicitor and wait, even if you know you're innocent. Actually, especially if you know you're innocent.
- boothead 13y ago
  Bloody hell!
  - nicholassmith 13y ago
    It's worth while taking the time to look up what rights you have under arrest etc: http://www.yourrights.org.uk/ http://www.yourrights.org.uk/
- nijk 13y ago
  Now you are talking about surprise evidence not disclosed during pretrial discovery, which is a wholly different issue from a right to remain sient.
- porker 13y ago
  Who pays for the lawyer/solicitor in the UK? Do I have to, even though I'm innocent?
  - nicholassmith 13y ago
    You have to, unless you want to use the duty solicitor who's a free resource. The duty solicitor should be perfectly fine for most situations unless you really actually are guilty, or you think you've been stitched up, to use TV crime drama parlance.
    - darkarmani 13y ago
      > The duty solicitor should be perfectly fine for most situations unless you really actually are guilty But should you choose to use your own solicitor, it may adversely harm your defense, because innocent people use the duty solicitor...
6d0debc071 13y ago
Sure they can, you can even question people without a lawyer present in the states. There's a woman in jail on death row - because a cop that's a known perjurer claimed that she'd broken down and confessed to murdering her kid to him http://www.popehat.com/2013/03/14/the-presumption-of-truth/ http://www.popehat.com/2013/03/14/the-presumption-of-truth/
rmc 13y ago
You know the UK doesn't have a constitution in the same sense as the USA? During the recent undeclared civil war in the UK (Northern Ireland), there were many suspensions of civil rights.
- SEMW 13y ago
  Misleading. Substantive protection of rights in the UK is, overall, as strong or stronger as in the US (weaker in some areas, stronger in others). That the sources of those rights (centuries of common law tradition, ECHR & HRA rights, the EU, and more) aren't a convenient single document with the words "The Constitution" at the top doesn't mean they don't exist.

richardwhiuk 13y ago

As far as I can tell, it's almost never the case that not saying anything prior to talking to a lawyer will actually harm you defence, despite what the police may say.

dalore 13y ago
It's different in the UK. If something comes up after the fact that you should have told. See "facts later relied on": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and...
- shawabawa3 13y ago
  From that link: > no inferences can be drawn from any failure occurring before the accused is allowed an opportunity to consult a legal advisor I would be shocked if they could actually use you refusing to talk without legal advice against you
  - scott_w 13y ago
    They can't. In the UK you are usually asked by the desk sergeant if you want a solicitor before they will question you. Of course, you can be questioned while not being under arrest but again, you can ask for a lawyer before they question you. I can't think a police officer could say in court: "He refused to be questioned before we arrested him" because you're not under any obligation to talk to the police in day-to-day life.

DanBC 13y ago

In England you say something like "I am glad to answer your questions, but I will only do so with a lawyer present".