8 ms·

I feel bad for those who put their blood, sweat and tears into building Zynga. I feel bad for those who have just lost their jobs. I feel bad for those who re

by cletus 13y ago

I feel bad for those who put their blood, sweat and tears into building Zynga. I feel bad for those who have just lost their jobs. I feel bad for those who remain under a cloud with the only comment they get is self-deflecting language from their CEO like "brothers and sisters". Who I don't feel bad for is Mark Pincus. The collapse of Zynga couldn't happen to a more deserving person. Just 18 months ago when Zynga was on top of the world, Pincus made a name for himself by bullying staff to give back stock options [1] for no other reason than he thought they didn't deserve such a huge windfall. Well those chickens have come home to roost. Those same employers will be the first to take flight having no further loyalty to the company. I also know that I wouldn't work for Pincus. He's shown his true character with this petty greed (how much difference did this make to him personally really?). Frankly I'd hesitate in working for any company backed by the same VCs that let this happen. To allow this erosion of what I'd call the "startup bargain" (trading salary for equity) by greatly reducing the upside is shortsighted and undermines the very conditions that makes the startup scene thrive and succeed. As much as I viewed Groupon as a scam (a Ponzi scheme essentially), Andrew Mason's parting words [2] after getting fired gained him a lot of respect (from me at least) as they were authentic and didn't seek to cast blame elsewhere. In fact he went so far as to make a joke of "spending more time with my family" (which we all know is a euphemism for getting fired). What entrepreneurs and VCs need to realize is these bullying tactics (and I include the underhanded clawback agreements to Skype employees in this) undermine the entire ecosystem and we need to send a powerful message that they can't and won't be tolerated. [1]: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2011-11-10/zynga-ipo-stock/51158068/1 http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2011-11-10/zy... [2]: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/02/28/andrew-mason-groupoin/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/02/28/andrew-mason-groupo...

wslh 13y ago
Frankly I'd hesitate in working for any company backed by the same VCs that let this happen. To allow this erosion of what I'd call the "startup bargain" (trading salary for equity) by greatly reducing the upside is shortsighted and undermines the very conditions that makes the startup scene thrive and succeed. Not exactly that, but Google invested on Zynga.
- abcd_f 13y ago
  Interesting, but needs a bit more context - when and how much?
  - Jare 13y ago
    Here's two bits: http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/10/google-secretly-invested-100-million-in-zynga-preparing-to-launch-google-games/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/10/google-secretly-invested-10... http://allthingsd.com/20110718/zynga-updates-ipo-filing-to-list-investors-and-googles-one-of-them/ http://allthingsd.com/20110718/zynga-updates-ipo-filing-to-l...
dj2stein9 13y ago
I really don't feel sorry for anyone who work(s)(ed) for Zynga. This company milked the whole "social gaming" bubble for every drop it was worth. Every game they made was a clone of this or that, and they used every spam trick in the book to get more clicks, and every single employee at that company knew 100% full well that they were part of a modern day ponzi scheme that would blow up once Facebook become uncool.
- sjsivak 13y ago
  This is so incredibly wrong in so many ways. Many developers were seduced into social games because people loved them and it seemed like a new frontier and a new market with shorter development cycles and interesting challenges. It is easy to have great hindsight but a few years ago the game industry looked very different. Zynga has had a few games be reviewed quite well, but nobody ever seems to remember them.[1][2] As a former Zynga employee that came in through acquisition, I find it repulsive that people assume we are all responsible for the poor decisions of a few at the top. Most of us worked our asses off to try to make something awesome, but ended up having to compromise in the worst possible ways to satisfy the top brass or poorly understood metrics. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/31/zynga-channels-settlers-of-catan-in-new-social-combat-game-empires-allies-debuts-in-12-languages/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/31/zynga-channels-settlers-of-... [2] http://kotaku.com/5836588/adventure-world-is-zyngas-take-on-tomb-raider++and-another-step-toward-real-games http://kotaku.com/5836588/adventure-world-is-zyngas-take-on-...
  - shadowmint 13y ago
    It's easy to say 'Oh sure, I work for the Evil Empire, but my division makes interesting things which people actually quite like...' ...but then you've got to be prepared to take it on the chin when someone says, "Yes, but that whole company is Evil, which, kind of by association includes you." When you work for someone, their reputation does, absolutely, 100% reflect on you personally regardless of what your role in the company is (to some degree, obviously). Just food for thought. If you don't like it, don't work for people you don't want your personal reputation associated with.
tsotha 13y ago
>Who I don't feel bad for is Mark Pincus. The collapse of Zynga couldn't happen to a more deserving person. Just 18 months ago when Zynga was on top of the world, Pincus made a name for himself by bullying staff to give back stock options [1] for no other reason than he thought they didn't deserve such a huge windfall. That was my first thought. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
stanleydrew 13y ago
"Frankly I'd hesitate in working for any company backed by the same VCs that let this happen." I see some pretty big names in the list of Zynga investors. Namely Union Square Ventures, Andreessen Horowitz, and Kleiner Perkins Caufield Byers. The set of startups these VCs have invested in will cover a huge portion of the "good" startups to work for. I don't know if refusing to work for a company backed by one of them is a viable option.
- scotth 13y ago
  > I don't know if refusing to work for a company backed by one of them is a viable option. There is a bigger world out there than you think.
- wslh 13y ago
  Google invested on Zynga, and Cletus work for Google. Sorry for being cynic, it's not my style.
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    Why do you assume Google is so good? Or so unavoidable? Recently Google bought Quickoffice and booted two offices of android devs + QA in Ukraine without even paying them 2-month equivalent of salary for the inconvenience. Not sure if they are going to sue. You can argue it was not "The Google" but some of their proxies, but it doesn't matter: as a company they're cool with that, saving some dimes by ripping out employees they aren't going to use, when they can get away with that.
    - wslh 13y ago
      See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817073
      - guard-of-terra 13y ago
        So what? I didn't doubt Google invested; I just claim it's not as important because Google isn't actually good when it comes to treating 3rd party employees.
rmc 13y ago
The solution to prevent clawback of stock options is better employee rights law.

by cletus 13y ago

wslh 13y ago

Frankly I'd hesitate in working for any company backed by the same VCs that let this happen. To allow this erosion of what I'd call the "startup bargain" (trading salary for equity) by greatly reducing the upside is shortsighted and undermines the very conditions that makes the startup scene thrive and succeed. Not exactly that, but Google invested on Zynga.

abcd_f 13y ago
Interesting, but needs a bit more context - when and how much?
- Jare 13y ago
  Here's two bits: http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/10/google-secretly-invested-100-million-in-zynga-preparing-to-launch-google-games/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/10/google-secretly-invested-10... http://allthingsd.com/20110718/zynga-updates-ipo-filing-to-list-investors-and-googles-one-of-them/ http://allthingsd.com/20110718/zynga-updates-ipo-filing-to-l...

dj2stein9 13y ago

I really don't feel sorry for anyone who work(s)(ed) for Zynga. This company milked the whole "social gaming" bubble for every drop it was worth. Every game they made was a clone of this or that, and they used every spam trick in the book to get more clicks, and every single employee at that company knew 100% full well that they were part of a modern day ponzi scheme that would blow up once Facebook become uncool.

sjsivak 13y ago
This is so incredibly wrong in so many ways. Many developers were seduced into social games because people loved them and it seemed like a new frontier and a new market with shorter development cycles and interesting challenges. It is easy to have great hindsight but a few years ago the game industry looked very different. Zynga has had a few games be reviewed quite well, but nobody ever seems to remember them.[1][2] As a former Zynga employee that came in through acquisition, I find it repulsive that people assume we are all responsible for the poor decisions of a few at the top. Most of us worked our asses off to try to make something awesome, but ended up having to compromise in the worst possible ways to satisfy the top brass or poorly understood metrics. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/31/zynga-channels-settlers-of-catan-in-new-social-combat-game-empires-allies-debuts-in-12-languages/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/31/zynga-channels-settlers-of-... [2] http://kotaku.com/5836588/adventure-world-is-zyngas-take-on-tomb-raider++and-another-step-toward-real-games http://kotaku.com/5836588/adventure-world-is-zyngas-take-on-...
- shadowmint 13y ago
  It's easy to say 'Oh sure, I work for the Evil Empire, but my division makes interesting things which people actually quite like...' ...but then you've got to be prepared to take it on the chin when someone says, "Yes, but that whole company is Evil, which, kind of by association includes you." When you work for someone, their reputation does, absolutely, 100% reflect on you personally regardless of what your role in the company is (to some degree, obviously). Just food for thought. If you don't like it, don't work for people you don't want your personal reputation associated with.

tsotha 13y ago

>Who I don't feel bad for is Mark Pincus. The collapse of Zynga couldn't happen to a more deserving person. Just 18 months ago when Zynga was on top of the world, Pincus made a name for himself by bullying staff to give back stock options [1] for no other reason than he thought they didn't deserve such a huge windfall. That was my first thought. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

stanleydrew 13y ago

"Frankly I'd hesitate in working for any company backed by the same VCs that let this happen." I see some pretty big names in the list of Zynga investors. Namely Union Square Ventures, Andreessen Horowitz, and Kleiner Perkins Caufield Byers. The set of startups these VCs have invested in will cover a huge portion of the "good" startups to work for. I don't know if refusing to work for a company backed by one of them is a viable option.

scotth 13y ago
> I don't know if refusing to work for a company backed by one of them is a viable option. There is a bigger world out there than you think.
wslh 13y ago
Google invested on Zynga, and Cletus work for Google. Sorry for being cynic, it's not my style.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  Why do you assume Google is so good? Or so unavoidable? Recently Google bought Quickoffice and booted two offices of android devs + QA in Ukraine without even paying them 2-month equivalent of salary for the inconvenience. Not sure if they are going to sue. You can argue it was not "The Google" but some of their proxies, but it doesn't matter: as a company they're cool with that, saving some dimes by ripping out employees they aren't going to use, when they can get away with that.
  - wslh 13y ago
    See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817073
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      So what? I didn't doubt Google invested; I just claim it's not as important because Google isn't actually good when it comes to treating 3rd party employees.

rmc 13y ago

The solution to prevent clawback of stock options is better employee rights law.