9 ms·

Being caught in a downsizing sucks Or it can be a great. Severance packages can be quite lucrative. The better advice I give people is "always be looking for

by mbesto 13y ago

Being caught in a downsizing sucks Or it can be a great. Severance packages can be quite lucrative. The better advice I give people is "always be looking for job opportunities". The best job opportunities come when you least expect them, and the worst jobs are taken when you're desperate.

mkenyon 13y ago
In this case, Zynga offered us 3 months + 1 week/year.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  What was your reaction to this offer, if I may ask? Did you think it was fair? Did you think you were ripped off? Angry? Sad? Depressed? I've left a few jobs but always on my own accord, so I'd appreciate having a glimpse of the psyche in going through an involuntary departure.
  - mkenyon 13y ago
    It's a generous payout. The cuts seem indiscriminate when I look at all the talented people being cut. I imagine that it is hard to surgically remove 20% of your workforce. Right now, I'm torn between looking for work immediately and asking for a delayed start, or going on vacation now and looking for work when I get back. All I know is that Mars Bar (the local bar) will be busy tonight.
    - marvin 13y ago
      As an aside, this is why the US should have longer mandatory holiday. Taking a vacation would be the last thing on my mind if I was laid off, but our country has 5 weeks of semi-paid holidays a year. Good luck with your decision, I'm sure you'll land on your feet.
    - pault 13y ago
      I'm not sure what 3+ months' salary is for you, but I was able to live for a year in NW Thailand for $20k. I wouldn't be the person I am today had I not done that.
    - hkmurakami 13y ago
      I took a few months after my last resignation and it allowed me to really think clearly without the daily distractions of corporate life. It really let me reexamine my priorities and how I want to live going forward, so if you're (a) comfortable financially (I had few if any financial obligations) and (b) are confident in your ability to find a good role in the future, I can vouch for the mental benefits of just taking it easy for a few months, even if you don't do anything "special". Oh, and thanks for sharing your perspective with us!
    - ttrreeww 13y ago
      Look for work immediately. Negotiate a delay start.
- MrZod 13y ago
  dont forget,that many people who chose not to sign the legal document were able to negotiate a better comp package. my friend got 6 months after talking to HR and agreeing to sign the doc. remember, no one asks you to sign something for your benefit :)
MartinCron 13y ago
the worst jobs are taken when you're desperate If I could suggest one thing for a young programmer to tattoo onto their inner arm, it would be that sentence right there.
- ollysb 13y ago
  Problem is they usually are actually desperate...
  - hkmurakami 13y ago
    you're right. It's usually the least experienced and/or those with visa issues that get trapped by this.
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    Being aware of being desperate and what that means will at least allow people to make more informed desperate choices.
  - WalterSear 13y ago
    But if it's tattooed on their arm, they can remember it when they are not, and prepare accordingly.
- seivan 13y ago
  I took a really shitty job so I could be close to someone in a country. I had it for almost two years. The job wasn't worth it. But the person in question was.. ten folds. Now, we're trying to settle down, but fixing the job/security situation. That being said, I am always skeptical at things pointed out as job security.
- jshen 13y ago
  Decent programmers in big cities have no reason to be desperate.
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    Not now, but deep recessions can happen even in big cities. Nobody is as invincible as they feel.
electic 13y ago
I would say get stuck in a downsizing. It is great. You are either going to get a salary increase, acceleration, or more equity so they can retain you. You can often negotiate a bit here. Or, you are going to be let go where you get a good severance. Take some time off, understand your mistake, and move on.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  When I resigned from my last job, my last day coincided with a "reorg" that laid off maybe 3% of the workforce that very day (not a very big company though). I remember a coworker telling me, "Hey man, you should get in on that (so you can get severance)" :P I appreciated his good natured humor :)
  - bagels 13y ago
    This same exact thing happened to me. Literally on my last day, first thing in the morning was a company wide meeting announcing a 10% layoff, my whole team included. Hard to imagine a more depressing last day. No severance for me, but at least I had a job to go to next.
- tpurves 13y ago
  Packages are great when you can take a whole package then walk across the street and get a new job the day after. The main problem with this strategy is when the year is 2001 and every company in the tech-industry is going bust at the same time.
- yitchelle 13y ago
  That is a pretty big assumption that any of those "benefits" will be offered. The other effect is whether you can handle the downturn in company morale. It is like smiling while the ship is sinking. It is not a good feeling.
RK 13y ago
Or it can be a great. Severance packages can be quite lucrative. YMMV. I was part of a "10% workforce reduction", which included no severance packages. They gave us advanced notice, but I would have preferred the cash equivalent for that time instead. I'm sure there's a rant about at will in there somewhere...
tomphoolery 13y ago
Couldn't possibly be a better time to be laid off. Free money, severance package, AND the pick of the litter as to what job you want! Surely anyone who was hired at Zynga would be at least capable of most programming jobs in the country. The world is theirs. That is, unless Mark Pincus decides to fuck them over. There's always that aspect. (see Tribe.net)
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  I googled around for a good 10 minutes and read a few TC articles and Pincus' wikipedia article and couldn't figure out what had happened regarding tribe.net (other than an issuing a TRO to a former colleague in 2009). Would you care to elaborate?
  - tomphoolery 13y ago
    Just basically let it die even though there were paying customers. I remember people paying for premium service feeling pretty shitty when the people who ran Tribe couldn't even give a shit to keep the site up for more than a few hours. Tribe died right around the time Zynga's games like FarmVille exploded. It just seemed like he didn't really care about the people who made Tribe a good place to hang out and who kept the site going, and only cared about expanding his own personal portfolio with a game that most people frankly found annoying, especially those who didn't play it. He didn't do anything all that shitty, but it was enough for me to recognize him as someone who doesn't care about the community-building aspect as much as the "making money" aspect. Because of that, when he does things like this, I don't feel all that surprised.
  - spot 13y ago
    i don't know but i'll bet it has something to do with Utah Street Networks.
  - MrZod 13y ago
    check this out, Pincus' profile: http://people.tribe.net/markpincus http://people.tribe.net/markpincus
nilkn 13y ago
My uncle was recently laid off and given severance of a year's salary ($150k). He got another $150k job soon after. He'll make $300k this year. This is in Missouri, where that's a lot of money.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  That's great to hear and it's a wonderful turn of events, but I shudder thinking about the tax bill (though obviously you're coming out ahead no matter what)
georgeecollins 13y ago
Severance packages can be good, but you don't want to be the last to leave. I stayed at a company until the bitter end (Chap 11) and got almost no severance. I would have made more money in absolute terms if I had been sacked in the last round of layoffs. I thought I was skilled to avoid the layoffs but really it cost me money. You want to be the second to last to leave.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  I'm wondering: is it better to be one of the first to get sacked or the second to last? It'd seem like the company would have more resources to "pay out" for the earlier rounds, gradually decreasing as the rounds go on. Besides, you probably want to get out of a failing company, and provided that you are competent (though increased competence would in reality lessen the chances of your getting sacked in the first round) I'd think that you'd prefer to get your severance and get out asap.
- tsotha 13y ago
  Heh. Yeah, that's an irony I've seen up close. The worst employees get the best severance, because the company still has money in the first round of layoffs.
enjo 13y ago
One of my favorite breweries (Strange Brewing Company - http://www.strangebrewingco.com/ http://www.strangebrewingco.com/) essentially started on two severance packages from the Rocky Mountain News. Those guys definitely won when they lost their jobs.
tsotha 13y ago
There's nothing wrong with taking a job when you're desperate. It gives you breathing room to look for another job, and companies are more willing to bargain when you have a job. The problem comes when you take a job because you're desperate and then stay because you're lazy.

by mbesto 13y ago

mkenyon 13y ago

In this case, Zynga offered us 3 months + 1 week/year.

hkmurakami 13y ago
What was your reaction to this offer, if I may ask? Did you think it was fair? Did you think you were ripped off? Angry? Sad? Depressed? I've left a few jobs but always on my own accord, so I'd appreciate having a glimpse of the psyche in going through an involuntary departure.
- mkenyon 13y ago
  It's a generous payout. The cuts seem indiscriminate when I look at all the talented people being cut. I imagine that it is hard to surgically remove 20% of your workforce. Right now, I'm torn between looking for work immediately and asking for a delayed start, or going on vacation now and looking for work when I get back. All I know is that Mars Bar (the local bar) will be busy tonight.
  - marvin 13y ago
    As an aside, this is why the US should have longer mandatory holiday. Taking a vacation would be the last thing on my mind if I was laid off, but our country has 5 weeks of semi-paid holidays a year. Good luck with your decision, I'm sure you'll land on your feet.
  - pault 13y ago
    I'm not sure what 3+ months' salary is for you, but I was able to live for a year in NW Thailand for $20k. I wouldn't be the person I am today had I not done that.
  - hkmurakami 13y ago
    I took a few months after my last resignation and it allowed me to really think clearly without the daily distractions of corporate life. It really let me reexamine my priorities and how I want to live going forward, so if you're (a) comfortable financially (I had few if any financial obligations) and (b) are confident in your ability to find a good role in the future, I can vouch for the mental benefits of just taking it easy for a few months, even if you don't do anything "special". Oh, and thanks for sharing your perspective with us!
  - ttrreeww 13y ago
    Look for work immediately. Negotiate a delay start.
MrZod 13y ago
dont forget,that many people who chose not to sign the legal document were able to negotiate a better comp package. my friend got 6 months after talking to HR and agreeing to sign the doc. remember, no one asks you to sign something for your benefit :)

MartinCron 13y ago

the worst jobs are taken when you're desperate If I could suggest one thing for a young programmer to tattoo onto their inner arm, it would be that sentence right there.

ollysb 13y ago
Problem is they usually are actually desperate...
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  you're right. It's usually the least experienced and/or those with visa issues that get trapped by this.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  Being aware of being desperate and what that means will at least allow people to make more informed desperate choices.
- WalterSear 13y ago
  But if it's tattooed on their arm, they can remember it when they are not, and prepare accordingly.
seivan 13y ago
I took a really shitty job so I could be close to someone in a country. I had it for almost two years. The job wasn't worth it. But the person in question was.. ten folds. Now, we're trying to settle down, but fixing the job/security situation. That being said, I am always skeptical at things pointed out as job security.
jshen 13y ago
Decent programmers in big cities have no reason to be desperate.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  Not now, but deep recessions can happen even in big cities. Nobody is as invincible as they feel.

electic 13y ago

I would say get stuck in a downsizing. It is great. You are either going to get a salary increase, acceleration, or more equity so they can retain you. You can often negotiate a bit here. Or, you are going to be let go where you get a good severance. Take some time off, understand your mistake, and move on.

hkmurakami 13y ago
When I resigned from my last job, my last day coincided with a "reorg" that laid off maybe 3% of the workforce that very day (not a very big company though). I remember a coworker telling me, "Hey man, you should get in on that (so you can get severance)" :P I appreciated his good natured humor :)
- bagels 13y ago
  This same exact thing happened to me. Literally on my last day, first thing in the morning was a company wide meeting announcing a 10% layoff, my whole team included. Hard to imagine a more depressing last day. No severance for me, but at least I had a job to go to next.
tpurves 13y ago
Packages are great when you can take a whole package then walk across the street and get a new job the day after. The main problem with this strategy is when the year is 2001 and every company in the tech-industry is going bust at the same time.
yitchelle 13y ago
That is a pretty big assumption that any of those "benefits" will be offered. The other effect is whether you can handle the downturn in company morale. It is like smiling while the ship is sinking. It is not a good feeling.

RK 13y ago

Or it can be a great. Severance packages can be quite lucrative. YMMV. I was part of a "10% workforce reduction", which included no severance packages. They gave us advanced notice, but I would have preferred the cash equivalent for that time instead. I'm sure there's a rant about at will in there somewhere...

tomphoolery 13y ago

Couldn't possibly be a better time to be laid off. Free money, severance package, AND the pick of the litter as to what job you want! Surely anyone who was hired at Zynga would be at least capable of most programming jobs in the country. The world is theirs. That is, unless Mark Pincus decides to fuck them over. There's always that aspect. (see Tribe.net)

hkmurakami 13y ago
I googled around for a good 10 minutes and read a few TC articles and Pincus' wikipedia article and couldn't figure out what had happened regarding tribe.net (other than an issuing a TRO to a former colleague in 2009). Would you care to elaborate?
- tomphoolery 13y ago
  Just basically let it die even though there were paying customers. I remember people paying for premium service feeling pretty shitty when the people who ran Tribe couldn't even give a shit to keep the site up for more than a few hours. Tribe died right around the time Zynga's games like FarmVille exploded. It just seemed like he didn't really care about the people who made Tribe a good place to hang out and who kept the site going, and only cared about expanding his own personal portfolio with a game that most people frankly found annoying, especially those who didn't play it. He didn't do anything all that shitty, but it was enough for me to recognize him as someone who doesn't care about the community-building aspect as much as the "making money" aspect. Because of that, when he does things like this, I don't feel all that surprised.
- spot 13y ago
  i don't know but i'll bet it has something to do with Utah Street Networks.
- MrZod 13y ago
  check this out, Pincus' profile: http://people.tribe.net/markpincus http://people.tribe.net/markpincus

nilkn 13y ago

My uncle was recently laid off and given severance of a year's salary ($150k). He got another $150k job soon after. He'll make $300k this year. This is in Missouri, where that's a lot of money.

hkmurakami 13y ago
That's great to hear and it's a wonderful turn of events, but I shudder thinking about the tax bill (though obviously you're coming out ahead no matter what)

georgeecollins 13y ago

Severance packages can be good, but you don't want to be the last to leave. I stayed at a company until the bitter end (Chap 11) and got almost no severance. I would have made more money in absolute terms if I had been sacked in the last round of layoffs. I thought I was skilled to avoid the layoffs but really it cost me money. You want to be the second to last to leave.

hkmurakami 13y ago
I'm wondering: is it better to be one of the first to get sacked or the second to last? It'd seem like the company would have more resources to "pay out" for the earlier rounds, gradually decreasing as the rounds go on. Besides, you probably want to get out of a failing company, and provided that you are competent (though increased competence would in reality lessen the chances of your getting sacked in the first round) I'd think that you'd prefer to get your severance and get out asap.
tsotha 13y ago
Heh. Yeah, that's an irony I've seen up close. The worst employees get the best severance, because the company still has money in the first round of layoffs.

enjo 13y ago

One of my favorite breweries (Strange Brewing Company - http://www.strangebrewingco.com/ http://www.strangebrewingco.com/) essentially started on two severance packages from the Rocky Mountain News. Those guys definitely won when they lost their jobs.

tsotha 13y ago

There's nothing wrong with taking a job when you're desperate. It gives you breathing room to look for another job, and companies are more willing to bargain when you have a job. The problem comes when you take a job because you're desperate and then stay because you're lazy.