4 ms·

The Management Myth (2006)

113 points by hko 17y ago

dxjones 17y ago
This is an outstanding, well-written article about how business management often falls victim to faddish theories. It is long, but enjoyable and well worth the read. My favourite quote: "Knowledge, by its very nature, must be intelligible, not obscure." It comes up in the context of management consultants using bafflegab and fancy-sounding jargon to mislead clients (and perhaps themselves). This quote is a reminder to have the courage, (as is needed in some contexts), to speak up when you don't understand something, ... since what seems like wisdom you are having difficulty grasping, may in fact be snake oil. For a strangely related article, you might also like to read: "What you can't say" ( http://paulgraham.com/say.html http://paulgraham.com/say.html) which also talks about widely held beliefs that later turn out to be just a passing fashion. Although later seen clearly to be false, at the earlier time, the flaws are invisible.
- edw519 17y ago
  The only thing I remember a professor saying in Business School: "A degree in business is a degree in nothing." Of course he said it after I paid my tuition :-) The MBA may have opened some doors for me, but after all these years, I'm starting to believe he was right.
  - jpwagner 17y ago
    You know how you can buy a bachelor's degree from "university of joe schmoe" or some such made up university? I'm sure that people have done that and it has helped them get 'some job.' If there exists an analogous scenario for an MBA, I doubt it would've helped anyone to get the job they want. That's the distinction in my mind.
  - jimbokun 17y ago
    The Seinfeld degree!
- gruseom 17y ago
  I read it, but apart from the excellent beginning I'm not sure it's well worth it. The author wants to have it both ways: he's an insider and also an ironic critic. But he never addresses his own years of involvement in the bullshit he exposes. As a result, the article becomes increasingly evasive and self-justifying, ending in a bunch of platitudes of his own. You can't just take a bucket of irony varnish and slather it over everything and act like that makes you different.
  - dasil003 17y ago
    Where did he claim he was different? Is it wrong for someone to criticize an industry they were a part of? Is the appearance of hypocrisy the foremost evil to be avoided at all costs?
    - gruseom 17y ago
      Where did he claim he was different? The whole point of the article is that his philosophy degree made him different. (Note that the sibling comment to yours takes this for granted.) Is it wrong for someone to criticize an industry they were a part of? No, but it's shallow not to address the incongruence. Is the appearance of hypocrisy the foremost evil to be avoided at all costs? One of them! Plus it makes for better writing.
  - frossie 17y ago
    The point that he is making is not that management consulting is useless, but the framework for teaching is ineffective. As he says, "What they don’t seem to teach you in business school is that “the five forces” and “the seven Cs” and every other generic framework for problem solving are heuristics: they can lead you to solutions, but they cannot make you think." The problem (and I see this in technical management as well as in the business world) is that a good manager can think themselves out of the situation without gimmicks or formal training; whereas a bad manager does not become a good one with all the MBAs and training courses in the world. The other great point he makes, that confirms my own impression, is: "If it’s reminiscent of the kind of toothless wisdom offered in self-help literature, that’s because management theory is mostly a subgenre of self-help. Which isn’t to say it’s completely useless." I think that is exactly right. Yes there are some people that will derive some benefit from reading a self-help book, but it rarely provides a lasting benefit and is no substitute for an intelligent and mature reflection on your problems.
- dasil003 17y ago
  My favorite quote is: "In a sense, management theory is what happens to philosophers when you pay them too much."
- kubrick 17y ago
  I liked it -- heck, it sounds like me -- but I do wonder why the author only has criticisms. It's easy to criticize, but as a management guy himself, doesn't he have any idea how to do it better? "Don't be bullshitful" isn't enough.
- michaelneale 17y ago
  Was a great read. Also reinforces my interest in philosophy as a satisfying area to study one day in my retirement (if not before !).
gruseom 17y ago
The most interesting thing in this article is its claim that Taylor was a self-promoting fraud, which gives a whole new meaning to his status as the founder of "scientific management". If you want to understand a thing, look at its origins.
bitwize 17y ago
I went to Stevens Institute of Technology as a lad. I like telling an illustrative anecdote about the school compared to its competition: W. Edwards Deming went to MIT; Frederick Taylor went to Stevens. All you need to know, really. :)
- rodneylester 17y ago
  From Wikipedia: W Edwards Deming received a BSc in Electrical Engineering from the University of Wyoming at Laramie (1921), an M.S. from the University of Colorado (1925), and a Ph.D. from Yale University (1928). Both graduate degrees were in mathematics and physics. Of course, I am a University of Wyoming BSEE graduate, so I'd know the first :-)
- stewiecat 17y ago
  Another Stevens Tech alum here too (Computer Science, '02).
huherto 17y ago
I think there should be a management degree where you actually start a small business. I am not thinking just about an assignment for one semester; the whole purpose of the degree would be to end up with a real small business.
- Chickencha 17y ago
  I would argue that such a "degree" already exists. Simply start a small business. If it's successful and you decide to move on to something else, having created and run a successful small business will look great on your resumé. If it's unsuccessful, then I guess you flunked out.
  - tigerthink 17y ago
    So you don't think going meetings of other small business founders or listening to lectures by an expert small business founder would be valuable?
azgolfer 17y ago
Gerald Weinberg's book The Secrets Of Consulting IMO is a much better view of the give and take of giving business advice. Grad school has become far more popular than it used to be and a lot of people seem to promote it as worthwhile to students (paying large tuition, and spending extra years in school) and business (paying high initial salaries and rapidly promoting the grad school graduates). The book "The Big Test" talks about a new class of "Mandarins" - people who have high test scores, get advanced degrees and get high end jobs in business or government as a result. Bill and Hillary Clinton are two of his examples.
- gruseom 17y ago
  Weinberg's book is excellent. It saved me all kinds of trouble. I recommend it to anyone doing any kind of consulting or even just interacting with other human beings. It's also a nice antidote to the Dogbert kind of consulting described in the OP.
  - azgolfer 17y ago
    Hey, turns out he has a blog http://secretsofconsulting.blogspot.com/ http://secretsofconsulting.blogspot.com/
datums 17y ago
One of the biggest challenges in managing is the social aspect.
gyeh 17y ago
It's interesting to note that the author plans to release a book regarding the same subject later in the year: http://www.amazon.com/Management-Myth-Consulting-Present-Largely/dp/0393065537/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240893048&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Management-Myth-Consulting-Present-Lar.... While it should be a good read, it's bit too opportunistic IMO, given the current economic climate. Heads will roll, and MBA's are a juicy scapegoat (nonetheless, deservingly so). I guess not everyone can be like Shiller. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_Exuberance_%28book%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_Exuberance_%28book%2...)

113 points by hko 17y ago

This is an outstanding, well-written article about how business management often falls victim to faddish theories. It is long, but enjoyable and well worth the read. My favourite quote: "Knowledge, by its very nature, must be intelligible, not obscure." It comes up in the context of management consultants using bafflegab and fancy-sounding jargon to mislead clients (and perhaps themselves). This quote is a reminder to have the courage, (as is needed in some contexts), to speak up when you don't understand something, ... since what seems like wisdom you are having difficulty grasping, may in fact be snake oil. For a strangely related article, you might also like to read: "What you can't say" ( http://paulgraham.com/say.html http://paulgraham.com/say.html) which also talks about widely held beliefs that later turn out to be just a passing fashion. Although later seen clearly to be false, at the earlier time, the flaws are invisible.

edw519 17y ago
The only thing I remember a professor saying in Business School: "A degree in business is a degree in nothing." Of course he said it after I paid my tuition :-) The MBA may have opened some doors for me, but after all these years, I'm starting to believe he was right.
- jpwagner 17y ago
  You know how you can buy a bachelor's degree from "university of joe schmoe" or some such made up university? I'm sure that people have done that and it has helped them get 'some job.' If there exists an analogous scenario for an MBA, I doubt it would've helped anyone to get the job they want. That's the distinction in my mind.
- jimbokun 17y ago
  The Seinfeld degree!
gruseom 17y ago
I read it, but apart from the excellent beginning I'm not sure it's well worth it. The author wants to have it both ways: he's an insider and also an ironic critic. But he never addresses his own years of involvement in the bullshit he exposes. As a result, the article becomes increasingly evasive and self-justifying, ending in a bunch of platitudes of his own. You can't just take a bucket of irony varnish and slather it over everything and act like that makes you different.
- dasil003 17y ago
  Where did he claim he was different? Is it wrong for someone to criticize an industry they were a part of? Is the appearance of hypocrisy the foremost evil to be avoided at all costs?
  - gruseom 17y ago
    Where did he claim he was different? The whole point of the article is that his philosophy degree made him different. (Note that the sibling comment to yours takes this for granted.) Is it wrong for someone to criticize an industry they were a part of? No, but it's shallow not to address the incongruence. Is the appearance of hypocrisy the foremost evil to be avoided at all costs? One of them! Plus it makes for better writing.
- frossie 17y ago
  The point that he is making is not that management consulting is useless, but the framework for teaching is ineffective. As he says, "What they don’t seem to teach you in business school is that “the five forces” and “the seven Cs” and every other generic framework for problem solving are heuristics: they can lead you to solutions, but they cannot make you think." The problem (and I see this in technical management as well as in the business world) is that a good manager can think themselves out of the situation without gimmicks or formal training; whereas a bad manager does not become a good one with all the MBAs and training courses in the world. The other great point he makes, that confirms my own impression, is: "If it’s reminiscent of the kind of toothless wisdom offered in self-help literature, that’s because management theory is mostly a subgenre of self-help. Which isn’t to say it’s completely useless." I think that is exactly right. Yes there are some people that will derive some benefit from reading a self-help book, but it rarely provides a lasting benefit and is no substitute for an intelligent and mature reflection on your problems.
dasil003 17y ago
My favorite quote is: "In a sense, management theory is what happens to philosophers when you pay them too much."
kubrick 17y ago
I liked it -- heck, it sounds like me -- but I do wonder why the author only has criticisms. It's easy to criticize, but as a management guy himself, doesn't he have any idea how to do it better? "Don't be bullshitful" isn't enough.
michaelneale 17y ago
Was a great read. Also reinforces my interest in philosophy as a satisfying area to study one day in my retirement (if not before !).

gruseom 17y ago

The most interesting thing in this article is its claim that Taylor was a self-promoting fraud, which gives a whole new meaning to his status as the founder of "scientific management". If you want to understand a thing, look at its origins.

bitwize 17y ago

I went to Stevens Institute of Technology as a lad. I like telling an illustrative anecdote about the school compared to its competition: W. Edwards Deming went to MIT; Frederick Taylor went to Stevens. All you need to know, really. :)

rodneylester 17y ago
From Wikipedia: W Edwards Deming received a BSc in Electrical Engineering from the University of Wyoming at Laramie (1921), an M.S. from the University of Colorado (1925), and a Ph.D. from Yale University (1928). Both graduate degrees were in mathematics and physics. Of course, I am a University of Wyoming BSEE graduate, so I'd know the first :-)
stewiecat 17y ago
Another Stevens Tech alum here too (Computer Science, '02).

huherto 17y ago

I think there should be a management degree where you actually start a small business. I am not thinking just about an assignment for one semester; the whole purpose of the degree would be to end up with a real small business.

Chickencha 17y ago
I would argue that such a "degree" already exists. Simply start a small business. If it's successful and you decide to move on to something else, having created and run a successful small business will look great on your resumé. If it's unsuccessful, then I guess you flunked out.
- tigerthink 17y ago
  So you don't think going meetings of other small business founders or listening to lectures by an expert small business founder would be valuable?

azgolfer 17y ago

Gerald Weinberg's book The Secrets Of Consulting IMO is a much better view of the give and take of giving business advice. Grad school has become far more popular than it used to be and a lot of people seem to promote it as worthwhile to students (paying large tuition, and spending extra years in school) and business (paying high initial salaries and rapidly promoting the grad school graduates). The book "The Big Test" talks about a new class of "Mandarins" - people who have high test scores, get advanced degrees and get high end jobs in business or government as a result. Bill and Hillary Clinton are two of his examples.

gruseom 17y ago
Weinberg's book is excellent. It saved me all kinds of trouble. I recommend it to anyone doing any kind of consulting or even just interacting with other human beings. It's also a nice antidote to the Dogbert kind of consulting described in the OP.
- azgolfer 17y ago
  Hey, turns out he has a blog http://secretsofconsulting.blogspot.com/ http://secretsofconsulting.blogspot.com/

datums 17y ago

One of the biggest challenges in managing is the social aspect.

gyeh 17y ago

It's interesting to note that the author plans to release a book regarding the same subject later in the year: http://www.amazon.com/Management-Myth-Consulting-Present-Largely/dp/0393065537/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240893048&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Management-Myth-Consulting-Present-Lar.... While it should be a good read, it's bit too opportunistic IMO, given the current economic climate. Heads will roll, and MBA's are a juicy scapegoat (nonetheless, deservingly so). I guess not everyone can be like Shiller. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_Exuberance_%28book%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_Exuberance_%28book%2...)