10 ms·

A 17 Year Old with Severe Autism and His Six Completed Coursera Courses

252 points by alecco 13y ago

touristtam 13y ago
There is an article with similar thematic in the lastest "new scientist": http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829194.300-rise-of-the-autistic-workforce.html http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829194.300-rise-of-t...
aashaykumar92 13y ago
Heartwarming read. Glad to see that people with disabilities can truly benefit from online education.
- roguecoder 13y ago
  As long as there is another person available full-time to caretake and facilitate?
  - apalmer 13y ago
    uhh thats still definitely a 'benefit' if true...
- derleth 13y ago
  In this case, the facilitator was almost certainly doing the work. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5810711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5810711
woofyman 13y ago
Facilitated communication hasn't been scientifically validated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication If you look at the picture in the article, he isn't even looking while his father guides his hand.
- mattstocum 13y ago
  "Not scientifically validated," is being awfully generous. It doesn't work, plain and simple. The facilitator is the one responding in 100% of cases. You not only can see the father guiding his hand, but Daniel isn't even looking at the board. I would challenge anyone to respond to a question by poking at an iPad, without looking, while someone else holds their hand.
  - woofyman 13y ago
    Yeah, I was being charitable.
  - mamcx 13y ago
    Because a autistic person don't look directly to you don't mean is not looking at you. Is very common to them of see "away" and pay attention to thing in front or in a side. The problem is, is VERY hard to decipher what a autistic person is doing and why.
- apalmer 13y ago
  Didn't know this was facilitated communication, still seems there is at least some limited verbal communication involved.
  - mattstocum 13y ago
    "Even more limiting, he is dependent on an adult to bring him to the task, keep him working on it, and hold his hand while he spells." It's, sadly, nothing more than facilitated communication.
- jdp 13y ago
  It is hard to judge whether or not this is a case of facilitated communication just by that photo, it could just be that the whole family was posed for the photo for the article.
- eatitraw 13y ago
  1) The editor(s)/photographer(s) probably wanted a nice photo for this post, like whole family being working together to the same issue. The mother may seem un-involved if both the son and the father would focus on the screen. Or maybe for some other reason it was just the most sweet-looking picture out of the series. IMO, it is easily to get distracted while working in somewhat unfamiliar conditions. I can easily imagine that, if someone takes a photo of me coding in front of my laptop, I will end up looking weird and distracted because I would be nervous about camera. I am pretty sure that if someone wanted to fake it(even unintentionally), he would pick more "realistic" photo. 2) Just saying it wasn't validated doesn't mean it can't (and doesn't) work. Of course there is a link to wikipedia entry, but there are mixed data, and far from the claim "It doesn't work, plain and simple" (to which you agreed). 30-40 years ago it was mainstream to deny intelligence in non-human animals. But now, there are evidence that animals are intelligent: crowns learning to use tools, dolphins passing mirror test, parrots learning to count objects(and doing a lot of ther cool stuff).
Aardwolf 13y ago
"He suddenly learned to answer questions by picking the answers out, one letter at a time, on a letterboard." I hope that this letterboard is now a computer keyboard instead... I think online chat must be a fantastic way for autistic people to communicate, at least given what I have read in books about it. I once read about an autistic person who was unable to speak to people but he could write them, but this book was from the eighties (titled "If I could talk to you"). That really made me wonder if that person is posting on the internet today.
- mattstocum 13y ago
  It is done with a computer, in this case it appears to be an iPad. The problem is you have a facilitator, "steadying" the hand of the person who is communicating. In reality, the facilitator is actually guiding the person's hand, most likely without being aware of it themselves. It's easy to see why parents believe this method works. If you had a non-communicative child, and were suddenly told, just by pointing at this board, your child can talk to you, and his first words are, "I love you dad," you'd want to believe that more than anything else.
  - VLM 13y ago
    "and his first words are" One of my kids had some pretty serious medical problems resulting in some speech delays. This is just barely before "all problems must be solved via a tablet" era. So the speech therapists were all into sign language and then pictograms and eventually he started talking when he got around to it. Other people are like "yeah my kid started talking just out of the blue one day" and I'm all feeling that's like throwing lego pieces in the air and they come down full assembled, although supposedly it happens. Anyway I'd be really suspicious of any first words other than "more" as in candy and treats and toys and stuff. Carb addiction sets in early I guess. Basic needs were discussed long before discussions of kissing up to mom and dad. Watching kids learn language makes me wonder about the standard sci-fi trope of humans and space aliens learning language via math or sharing physics constants. Probably adult human vs adult space alien will learn each others language via sharing pr0n pixs and pixs of junk food. Actually that kinda resembles what I've seen on 4chan. That would make a very interesting sci fi story if the concept were expanded on. For better or worse I think Hacker News is probably not a primary choice location for space alien first contact, compared to say facebook, youtube comments, or 4chan. Presumably space aliens would have their own little weird green space alien 4chan and would come to the same conclusion, thus a realistic tolerance and shared understanding would result. I suppose this will lead to the inevitable start up idea of creating a space alien attracting social network. Or just buy reddit rather than develop it as a startup.
thinkcomp 13y ago
As someone with an autistic sibling I find feel-good articles like these immensely frustrating to read. As you read them, just keep in mind that there is no agreed-upon definition of "autism" or "Asberger's Syndrome". (Nor does autism exist on a defined one-dimensional spectrum, contrary to popular belief.) Each individual is wildly different. So "severe autism" in one person might mean that person can't talk. In another it might mean they have seizures. In another it might mean they can hold a conversation but can't tie their shoes. The media tends to gloss over this major issue, and in so doing it wrongly connects many poorly-understood discrete neurological disorders. The upshot is that even though it may be great that this particular individual benefits from Coursera, the vast majority of "autistic" individuals I have come across are not capable of processing anything that might be taught in a college-level course. Coursera cannot help them, although perhaps some more basic technologies might. For those interested, my father has written about these general points here: - Autism and the Media http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/autism-and-the-media_b_560906.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/autism-and-th... - Conceptualizing Autism: "Cloud" vs. "Spectrum" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/autism-conceptualizing-au_b_586546.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/autism-concep... - Major Obstacles for Adults with Autism http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/understanding-autism-in-a_b_527697.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/understanding...
- criley 13y ago
  Why only Huffington Post publication? They're widely known for alt-medicine and anti-science, and anyone reading science/medicine should rightfully be wary of anything on HuffPo, which has often lent it's publicity and support to anti-scientific groups. Also, don't you mean it's more than a two dimensional spectrum, as one dimensionality would be a single point, not a line. And, even if you did mean two dimensional, I think you're being unfair to the DSM-IV/DSM-V which does not literally define Autism Spectrum Disorders as falling on a two dimensional spectrum, but just uses the word to figuratively explain the variety inherent in the diagnosis. They include multiple levels to the spectrum which alone make such a spectrum "3d" and thus more 'cloud-like' without ever having to resort to calling the APA and it's Diagnosis manual as wrong. Although, I bet calling the APA wrong garners more page views...
shele 13y ago
Judging from the photo, that might be facilitated communication* and this raises the question, /who/ completed these 6 Coursera courses. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication
jngiam 13y ago
Coursera's hiring designers and engineers (frontend, infrastructure, analytics, mobile)! Join us in making a difference. https://www.coursera.org/about/jobs https://www.coursera.org/about/jobs (I'm part of the team there =) )
tudorconstantin 13y ago
What's you excuse? - I don't have one - I only successfully finished about 3 courses, while I got 2 finished but with below required percentage and started about 10.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- tsm 13y ago
  That's awfully condescending and presumptuous, don't you think? I've taken zero Coursera courses (but did take the original AI course with Norvig and Thrun), but have been busy taking max credit loads at school, TAing, becoming the lead dev at a startup, and starting my own startup. I'm sure a ton of people here can say something similar. MOOCs are great--as highlighted by the article--and I intend to take more. But there are other worthy things to do too. "The good is the enemy of the best."
  - lmartel 13y ago
    We're all very proud of you, but to me the OP seems to be making a general statement about achieving goals and productivity rather than specifically calling you out for not using Coursera.
  - tudorconstantin 13y ago
    I don't want to judge anyone but myself, but when a guy with severe autism is able to finish 6 courses and I am not, it doesn't quite matter that I am full time employed while trying to build 2 startups, being married, having a kid and getting involved into local community by being an active member of the second largest political party in romania
    - ruswick 13y ago
      This is incoherent. You are comparing a deficit in literal ability to complete the courses (through some sort of disorder) with an inability to find the time to complete them. Just because someone is "autistic" does not mean that you necessarily ought to be able to achieve more than them, especially when there are wildly divergent constraints for both of you. There is no logical basis whatsoever for your assertion.
kqr2 13y ago
Also recommend the Frontline documentary which debunks facilitated communication. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/programs/transcripts/1202.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/programs/transcripts...
- haberman 13y ago
  Great read, thanks. The part that most astounds me is how the facilitators could be totally unaware that all of the thoughts were coming from their own heads. It just seems like it would tip you off to notice that everything the autistic person was "saying" was something you were thinking.
  - roguecoder 13y ago
    This is why Ouija boards are so creepy; it's easier to attribute the behaviors to outside forces than parts of our own brain we aren't consciously aware of. It disrupts the illusion of a cohesive "self", which we kind of need.
aaron695 13y ago
Looking briefly at this it seems this is classic facilitated communication. Unfortunately this it a form or magic some families of autistic children get tricked into believing and it is quite sad Coursera is perpetuating this awful lie.
thezach 13y ago
Disclaimer: I am on the Autism Spectrum... at most times higher functioning but I have my days where i can be obsessive or sensory issues and other things to the point of not really being functional. Autism is a spectrum... sadly the parents of children that have a harder time communicating want to claim those on the spectrum that can communicate aren't autistic or don't know what its like to be a lower functioning autistic. The higher functioning ones get upset at parents who claim they are not autistic. Its bad seeing so much infighting in the Autism community. If people as passionate as those in the Autism community were to work together they could accomplish a lot. But because of the infighting trolls like Autism Speaks are the ones speaking for the Autistic Community while were all having this private war.

252 points by alecco 13y ago

There is an article with similar thematic in the lastest "new scientist": http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829194.300-rise-of-the-autistic-workforce.html http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829194.300-rise-of-t...

aashaykumar92 13y ago

Heartwarming read. Glad to see that people with disabilities can truly benefit from online education.

roguecoder 13y ago
As long as there is another person available full-time to caretake and facilitate?
- apalmer 13y ago
  uhh thats still definitely a 'benefit' if true...
derleth 13y ago
In this case, the facilitator was almost certainly doing the work. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5810711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5810711

woofyman 13y ago

Facilitated communication hasn't been scientifically validated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication If you look at the picture in the article, he isn't even looking while his father guides his hand.

mattstocum 13y ago
"Not scientifically validated," is being awfully generous. It doesn't work, plain and simple. The facilitator is the one responding in 100% of cases. You not only can see the father guiding his hand, but Daniel isn't even looking at the board. I would challenge anyone to respond to a question by poking at an iPad, without looking, while someone else holds their hand.
- woofyman 13y ago
  Yeah, I was being charitable.
- mamcx 13y ago
  Because a autistic person don't look directly to you don't mean is not looking at you. Is very common to them of see "away" and pay attention to thing in front or in a side. The problem is, is VERY hard to decipher what a autistic person is doing and why.
apalmer 13y ago
Didn't know this was facilitated communication, still seems there is at least some limited verbal communication involved.
- mattstocum 13y ago
  "Even more limiting, he is dependent on an adult to bring him to the task, keep him working on it, and hold his hand while he spells." It's, sadly, nothing more than facilitated communication.
jdp 13y ago
It is hard to judge whether or not this is a case of facilitated communication just by that photo, it could just be that the whole family was posed for the photo for the article.
eatitraw 13y ago
1) The editor(s)/photographer(s) probably wanted a nice photo for this post, like whole family being working together to the same issue. The mother may seem un-involved if both the son and the father would focus on the screen. Or maybe for some other reason it was just the most sweet-looking picture out of the series. IMO, it is easily to get distracted while working in somewhat unfamiliar conditions. I can easily imagine that, if someone takes a photo of me coding in front of my laptop, I will end up looking weird and distracted because I would be nervous about camera. I am pretty sure that if someone wanted to fake it(even unintentionally), he would pick more "realistic" photo. 2) Just saying it wasn't validated doesn't mean it can't (and doesn't) work. Of course there is a link to wikipedia entry, but there are mixed data, and far from the claim "It doesn't work, plain and simple" (to which you agreed). 30-40 years ago it was mainstream to deny intelligence in non-human animals. But now, there are evidence that animals are intelligent: crowns learning to use tools, dolphins passing mirror test, parrots learning to count objects(and doing a lot of ther cool stuff).

Aardwolf 13y ago

"He suddenly learned to answer questions by picking the answers out, one letter at a time, on a letterboard." I hope that this letterboard is now a computer keyboard instead... I think online chat must be a fantastic way for autistic people to communicate, at least given what I have read in books about it. I once read about an autistic person who was unable to speak to people but he could write them, but this book was from the eighties (titled "If I could talk to you"). That really made me wonder if that person is posting on the internet today.

mattstocum 13y ago
It is done with a computer, in this case it appears to be an iPad. The problem is you have a facilitator, "steadying" the hand of the person who is communicating. In reality, the facilitator is actually guiding the person's hand, most likely without being aware of it themselves. It's easy to see why parents believe this method works. If you had a non-communicative child, and were suddenly told, just by pointing at this board, your child can talk to you, and his first words are, "I love you dad," you'd want to believe that more than anything else.
- VLM 13y ago
  "and his first words are" One of my kids had some pretty serious medical problems resulting in some speech delays. This is just barely before "all problems must be solved via a tablet" era. So the speech therapists were all into sign language and then pictograms and eventually he started talking when he got around to it. Other people are like "yeah my kid started talking just out of the blue one day" and I'm all feeling that's like throwing lego pieces in the air and they come down full assembled, although supposedly it happens. Anyway I'd be really suspicious of any first words other than "more" as in candy and treats and toys and stuff. Carb addiction sets in early I guess. Basic needs were discussed long before discussions of kissing up to mom and dad. Watching kids learn language makes me wonder about the standard sci-fi trope of humans and space aliens learning language via math or sharing physics constants. Probably adult human vs adult space alien will learn each others language via sharing pr0n pixs and pixs of junk food. Actually that kinda resembles what I've seen on 4chan. That would make a very interesting sci fi story if the concept were expanded on. For better or worse I think Hacker News is probably not a primary choice location for space alien first contact, compared to say facebook, youtube comments, or 4chan. Presumably space aliens would have their own little weird green space alien 4chan and would come to the same conclusion, thus a realistic tolerance and shared understanding would result. I suppose this will lead to the inevitable start up idea of creating a space alien attracting social network. Or just buy reddit rather than develop it as a startup.

thinkcomp 13y ago

As someone with an autistic sibling I find feel-good articles like these immensely frustrating to read. As you read them, just keep in mind that there is no agreed-upon definition of "autism" or "Asberger's Syndrome". (Nor does autism exist on a defined one-dimensional spectrum, contrary to popular belief.) Each individual is wildly different. So "severe autism" in one person might mean that person can't talk. In another it might mean they have seizures. In another it might mean they can hold a conversation but can't tie their shoes. The media tends to gloss over this major issue, and in so doing it wrongly connects many poorly-understood discrete neurological disorders. The upshot is that even though it may be great that this particular individual benefits from Coursera, the vast majority of "autistic" individuals I have come across are not capable of processing anything that might be taught in a college-level course. Coursera cannot help them, although perhaps some more basic technologies might. For those interested, my father has written about these general points here: - Autism and the Media http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/autism-and-the-media_b_560906.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/autism-and-th... - Conceptualizing Autism: "Cloud" vs. "Spectrum" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/autism-conceptualizing-au_b_586546.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/autism-concep... - Major Obstacles for Adults with Autism http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/understanding-autism-in-a_b_527697.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-s-greenspan/understanding...

criley 13y ago
Why only Huffington Post publication? They're widely known for alt-medicine and anti-science, and anyone reading science/medicine should rightfully be wary of anything on HuffPo, which has often lent it's publicity and support to anti-scientific groups. Also, don't you mean it's more than a two dimensional spectrum, as one dimensionality would be a single point, not a line. And, even if you did mean two dimensional, I think you're being unfair to the DSM-IV/DSM-V which does not literally define Autism Spectrum Disorders as falling on a two dimensional spectrum, but just uses the word to figuratively explain the variety inherent in the diagnosis. They include multiple levels to the spectrum which alone make such a spectrum "3d" and thus more 'cloud-like' without ever having to resort to calling the APA and it's Diagnosis manual as wrong. Although, I bet calling the APA wrong garners more page views...

shele 13y ago

Judging from the photo, that might be facilitated communication* and this raises the question, /who/ completed these 6 Coursera courses. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication

jngiam 13y ago

Coursera's hiring designers and engineers (frontend, infrastructure, analytics, mobile)! Join us in making a difference. https://www.coursera.org/about/jobs https://www.coursera.org/about/jobs (I'm part of the team there =) )

tudorconstantin 13y ago

What's you excuse? - I don't have one - I only successfully finished about 3 courses, while I got 2 finished but with below required percentage and started about 10.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tsm 13y ago
That's awfully condescending and presumptuous, don't you think? I've taken zero Coursera courses (but did take the original AI course with Norvig and Thrun), but have been busy taking max credit loads at school, TAing, becoming the lead dev at a startup, and starting my own startup. I'm sure a ton of people here can say something similar. MOOCs are great--as highlighted by the article--and I intend to take more. But there are other worthy things to do too. "The good is the enemy of the best."
- lmartel 13y ago
  We're all very proud of you, but to me the OP seems to be making a general statement about achieving goals and productivity rather than specifically calling you out for not using Coursera.
- tudorconstantin 13y ago
  I don't want to judge anyone but myself, but when a guy with severe autism is able to finish 6 courses and I am not, it doesn't quite matter that I am full time employed while trying to build 2 startups, being married, having a kid and getting involved into local community by being an active member of the second largest political party in romania
  - ruswick 13y ago
    This is incoherent. You are comparing a deficit in literal ability to complete the courses (through some sort of disorder) with an inability to find the time to complete them. Just because someone is "autistic" does not mean that you necessarily ought to be able to achieve more than them, especially when there are wildly divergent constraints for both of you. There is no logical basis whatsoever for your assertion.

kqr2 13y ago

Also recommend the Frontline documentary which debunks facilitated communication. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/programs/transcripts/1202.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/programs/transcripts...

haberman 13y ago
Great read, thanks. The part that most astounds me is how the facilitators could be totally unaware that all of the thoughts were coming from their own heads. It just seems like it would tip you off to notice that everything the autistic person was "saying" was something you were thinking.
- roguecoder 13y ago
  This is why Ouija boards are so creepy; it's easier to attribute the behaviors to outside forces than parts of our own brain we aren't consciously aware of. It disrupts the illusion of a cohesive "self", which we kind of need.

aaron695 13y ago

Looking briefly at this it seems this is classic facilitated communication. Unfortunately this it a form or magic some families of autistic children get tricked into believing and it is quite sad Coursera is perpetuating this awful lie.

thezach 13y ago

Disclaimer: I am on the Autism Spectrum... at most times higher functioning but I have my days where i can be obsessive or sensory issues and other things to the point of not really being functional. Autism is a spectrum... sadly the parents of children that have a harder time communicating want to claim those on the spectrum that can communicate aren't autistic or don't know what its like to be a lower functioning autistic. The higher functioning ones get upset at parents who claim they are not autistic. Its bad seeing so much infighting in the Autism community. If people as passionate as those in the Autism community were to work together they could accomplish a lot. But because of the infighting trolls like Autism Speaks are the ones speaking for the Autistic Community while were all having this private war.