8 ms·
One of the issue that comes up with this type of discussion about low pay to workers on developing worlds like China, India, Bangladesh (recently you might have
by pavs 13y ago
One of the issue that comes up with this type of discussion about low pay to workers on developing worlds like China, India, Bangladesh (recently you might have heard some news about it in the media).
I am in Bangladesh, while I agree that a lot can be done to improve working conditions and worker safety, and in some cases worker's payment too. But its not nearly as bad as people make it (esp the ones who have never lived in such circumstances or in those countries). They may not get paid the same salary according to western standard, but the worker are doing (for the most part) pretty fine with the amount of money they are making. As a matter of fact, most of them have never seen so much money in their life, and most of the garments workers (mostly women) who without garments work would either be house wife, or beggars or do seasonal farming work 2-3 months a year with 1/10th of the pay, if at all (usually they get paid by farmed goods like rice, instead of money).
You have to understand, you can live a very good life with very little money in this part of the world, as far as the living standard of the local economy is concerned, the pay is not bad at all (there are few exception where garments owners take advantage of workers, but its not the norm). Garments industry alone single handedly have improved countless people's life and directly or indirectly have saved many people's life too.
To give you an example, we live in a pretty well off part of the city in dhaka, a family of 6 with 2 maids and 2 drivers (thats how the local culture works). Our monthly grocery shopping cost rarely goes over 500-600 dollars. And we eat pretty good too, even compare to my 12 year stay in NY. For a single person my monthly grocery bill could easily go to 400-500 dollars in NY, and I used to be fairly frugal. So I think a perspective is necessary when talking about wages in this part of the world.
This obviously comes at a cost sometimes, but honestly I don't think any sane person believes the alternative (not having enough jobs, however underpaid they are) would have been better. Every, so called developed countries, has come to where they are on the back of cheap labors and poor worker's right and poor working conditions. That doesn't make it right, but thats pretty much how it works.
- noloqy 13y agoLet's assume wages are sufficient, the prices that we pay for products are apparently still too low to ensure humane working conditions. And frankly, if a government would ensure humane working conditions wages would have to rise because production for local consumption would be subject to the same laws, raising costs of production. To ensure the safety of its citizens, it is a government's responsibility to strive to prevent work from being unnecessarily risky. It would be good if this could be orchestrated at a higher level than a national one, otherwise companies will enter a race to the bottom by moving their factories to the least regulated locations.
- sambeau 13y agoIt's not the low-pay per se that concerns those who criticise the outsourcing of everything to the developing world. It is the lack of comparable safety standards, environmental standards and workers' rights. We in the developed world fought hard for around 200 years to achieve these standards and rights and it smarts to see large corporations side-step them by outsourcing to countries that don't require or enforce them. It is in everyone's long-term interest to continue lobbying the companies who make our stuff to start requiring equal standards and rights wherever their stuff is manufactured. It will benefit the people of those countries who do the manufacture while re-balancing some of the giant manufacturing cost differential that these companies achieve by such a side-step. Cheap stuff comes at a high cost.
- math 13y agoMaybe worth sharing an observation from my building endeavors in Cambodia: often the workers don't realize the risks they are taking, so before lobbying for decent standards, they often need to actually comprehend what they are. This can be more difficult to get through to them than you might think. For example getting welders to always wear eye protection, getting people spray paint for a living to do so in a properly ventilated space. You can try to explain to them the risks - and buy them all the stuff - but many of them will just ignore you and do it the "sensible way without all that silly overhead".
- khuey 13y agoWe [the west] didn't understand it either until people started dying. Sometimes lessons have to be learned the hard way.
- betterunix 13y agoIt sounds like the lessons were already learned. Why are workers still being endangered? Just because they live in a different country?
- mmagin 13y ago
- eksith 13y agoYou're in Bangladesh and in a well of part of the city, you say. A family of 6 with 2 maids and 2 drivers too. Your entire post reminds me of something else I read : http://newint.org/features/2013/01/01/india-elite-sense-of-entitlement/ http://newint.org/features/2013/01/01/india-elite-sense-of-e... While the countries are all different (I'm from Sri Lanka originally), the attitudes are astoundingly similar. It's the Western equivalent of let them eat cake since they're used to eating grass. Underpaid labor is better than no pay is an excuse of the privileged; and only the privileged.
- muyuu 13y agoThese jobs wouldn't be there if not for the low wages. They belong to a foreign industry and a foreign market, it's nothing that they can simply protect internally.
- pavs 13y agoPlease get off your moral high horse. I used to be like you all smug-faced and judgmental sitting behind a computer, until I was on the field with brac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRAC_(NGO) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRAC_(NGO)) and see for myself how the real world works. They are NOT underpaid for the most part (If you actually bothered to read what I wrote). They are under-paid to "western living standard" but not according to the local living standard (for the most part). There are some exceptions and exploitations, but its very small percentage, but those are the examples that the media and people like you try to bring up when discussion these issues. Lets be oblivious and ignore the world of good garments industry has done for literally millions people in the poorest parts of the world. Change takes time, its not pretty, its not shiny, and its not fairy tale and sometimes people die in the process.
- ronilan 13y ago> we live in a pretty well off part of the city in dhaka, a family of 6 with 2 maids and 2 drivers (thats how the local culture works). I have never seen a comment, anywhere, that so clearly, and concisely, explains how a local culture works.
- pavs 13y agoSeriously, when I first moved here it bothered me a lot. I am used to cooking for myself and wouldn't mind learning how to drive. But I was absolutely prohibited from going to the kitchen even by accident and not go anywhere without having someone with me all the time. Now as I have learned my way around I do go out by myself but kitchen it still off limit.
- randomchars 13y agoWho stops you from going into the kitchen?
- pavs 13y agoMostly mum, I am really grown up. But people here lives with their parents, until they are married (even when they are married). Nothing wrong that AFAI am concerned. But most people from western culture won't probably get it.
- bconway 13y agoWe have a lot of similar restrictions in US workplaces, mostly driven by unions. They are equally as ridiculous.
- randomchars 13y agoWhat kind of restrictions?
- Dylan16807 13y ago
- bargl 13y agoI'm inclined to agree with pavs. I've done some traveling and living abroad, and it seems that these many other countries are in an industrial revolution stage of development. For the USA that meant better working environments, hours, safety, and pay. Before these things were in place we had insufficient labor laws here too. The portion that I'm missing is that, here in the states our industrial revolution paid well enough for parents to provide a better standard of living for their children. Those children were able to do the same, and we increased the middle class. If that is what is going on in China then we should NOT stop purchasing good from them. Here are a few links from a quick online search. http://www.futuredirections.org.au/publications/food-and-water-crises/911-china-s-emerging-middle-class-challenges-and-opportunities.html http://www.futuredirections.org.au/publications/food-and-wat... http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/25/news/economy/china-middle-class/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/25/news/economy/china-middle-cl... However, I think the OP being concerned about this is great, but you can't force change onto another culture nor should you. We can attempt to empower them to make the change, and be aware so that we aren't supporting the a workforce that is being sucked into a cycle of poverty.
- betterunix 13y ago"However, I think the OP being concerned about this is great, but you can't force change onto another culture nor should you" We can, however, stop buying products made in such dangerous factories, and make it clear why we are doing so. Why should we demand that factories in this country adhere to certain safety standards, then buy cheap goods from factories in other countries that do not adhere to the same standards?
- icebraining 13y agoWe can, however, stop buying products made in such dangerous factories How do you know what factories are dangerous?
- jacquesm 13y agoRegular inspections and certification.
- mushfiq 13y agoThis is not completely true, most of the garments workers are working with low wage like 40$/month(official but unofficially they are paid even less!). They live in the worst part of city and so on. And recent building collapse opened the nasty part of there work environment, when I lived in Bangladesh I have seen how misrable the work condition in garments. And most people work there due to job crisis and for other factors. And you can see the latest accidents photos http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2013/04/304_dead_in_building_collapse.html http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2013/04/304_dead_in_buildin.... So how can we do the improvement, it needs steps from every stakeholders, laws should be strict, there should be labour union(millions of worker working but there is no labour right union!) and of course the West should be more concern to provide better facility for the workers.