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Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1
- daigoba66 13y agoThis may be a bit facetious but it seems like Windows 8 might have been the biggest beta testing project ever. But on a serious note I'm glad they're focusing on improving usability.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- mscrivo 13y agoI don't understand why people keeping getting up in arms about Windows releases, it's like they keep forgetting their M.O. Microsoft's releases have always been like this, release something that changes things drastically (either under the hood or visually), and often breaks things or makes people mad because they don't like change. Then spend an enormous amount of time refining it in a subsequent release until everyone wonders how they ever used the old version. Frankly, I like their release style and wish more companies would follow suit. It allows them innovate on a predictable schedule, while giving those people who hate change, plenty of time for it to sink in and come around. I must say that I am not a fan of metro on the desktop either after using Windows 8 since release, but I knew the refinements would come and these changes are making it look great and finally are starting to show where they set their sights from the start. Looking forward to using windows 8.1 on a haswell based ultrabook with touch.
- lucian1900 13y agoIt's because it costs money. Few things people pay for are so utterly broken every other year.
- ricw 13y agoJust because Microsoft releases have been like this, doesn't mean they should! Having users up in arms is a bad sign. It means you have managed change badly. Others do this much better, incrementally and in bits that are manageable by users. Its something Microsoft fundamentally doesn't understand. Completely unlike Amazon, Google or Apple. When is the last time they released something where people were up in arms?! Even with drastic changes such as in Android 4! Microsoft just doesn't care about its users. But it should!
- freehunter 13y agoIf they've always been like this, shouldn't people expect it by now?
- revscat 13y agoIt has nothing to do with hating change -- which is a pretty condescending thing to say -- but rather with disagreeing with the UI decisions made. By and large the reaction to Metro has been negative for numerous reasons, the important part being that these objections are reasonable. Such grandiose shifts also smack of hubris: "Users be damned, we know what's best for them! Apple did it! So can we!" The problem with this is that Microsoft has always suffered a lack of holding design up to primary importance, and this is again the case here. Enjoying OS X Snow Leopard on my rMBP where I have zero issues with the OS getting in the way of my daily activities. Had to deal with Win7 and then -- briefly -- Win8 for the first few months of this year, and I was positively floored by how much the OS got in the way of doing things. I am skeptical that simply making refinements will fix what appears to be a fundamental problem.
- smrtinsert 13y agoSeriously. One of my first lessons from Microsoft was don't adopt within the first year.
- Samuel_Michon 13y ago“seems like Windows 8 might have been the biggest beta testing project ever” Gmail, Facebook, iCloud and Siri have way more users than Windows 8 does. The last two are in their entirety beta products. The first two have introduced major changes that didn’t turn out great. Even when Google rolls out a new version of Gmail in phases, it easily covers more users than Windows 8 (which has about 60 million users).
- orf 13y agoLargest doesn't always mean largest user base. I'm sure a lot more money, people and other resources went into Windows 8 than the re-skinning of Gmail.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoDaigoba66 wasn’t talking about the product itself, but the stage of beta testing. How many people it took to program the software has nothing to do with the beta testing effort. If it takes 10,000 programmers to build an app, but afterwards they only let 10 users beta test it, that’s not a big beta testing project. However, if you build an app alone and then have 1 million people beta test it, then that’s a big beta testing project.
- kimagure 13y agounder the section "PC Settings" seems to a description for being able to actually use the settings screen in your start menu that will reflect between your start menu and desktop? i've been waiting for this... my start menu will be in japanese even though i set my default keyboard to english and try to set all the language settings to english, so that i'm stuck with a stupid half english/japanese environment. even now, sometimes it's a toss-up whether or not i get english or japanese labels for start menu apps like Skype and my weather and mail apps seem to be permanently named 天気 and メール. i can't even search those using hiragana or romanized phonetics, ugh. maybe this wouldn't be a problem if i weren't practically illiterate. also, if i ever log in to windows 8 without waiting something like a minute, i always get boxes from something not working right when in some of the start menu screens and when trying to type things in with any IME. see: http://i.imgur.com/78SNnpB.png http://i.imgur.com/78SNnpB.png sorry that my post turned into one big complaint. hopefully someone will show me some very simple fixes to my problems!
- duiker101 13y agoDid I read it right? Animated backgrounds? That is the feature I am more excited about!
- workbench 13y agoIn what world could scrambling and backtracking backwards on decisions be described as "Continuing the vision"
- jonas_maj 13y agoThey are not backtracking in any way. If anything they're doubling down on their vision with Metro.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- freehunter 13y agoHow are they scrambling and backtracking decisions? How is that what you took from this? Sure, they added a start button, why not? But they also made all the PC settings available from within the Metro environment. If the start button is a step backwards in direction, pushing further away from requiring the desktop is ten huge steps forward toward that vision.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jpreiland 13y agoSearch: "It is the modern version of the command line!" While the search feature they're describing sounds cool, I'm curious as to what they mean by a "modern command line".
- wmeredith 13y agoThis sounds like a "faster-horse" feature to me. http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/15297-if-i-had-asked-people-what-they-wanted-they-would http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/15297-if-i-had-asked-people-...
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoWhen he came up with the Model T, people already had trains, trams, electric cars, and bicycles at their disposal. One has to wonder whether the world wouldn’t have been better off without Henry Ford’s gasoline automobiles.
- xentronium 13y agoPedantic nitpick: Ford most probably never said or written that.
- tezmc 13y agoThey might mean for launching apps by typing and using auto-completion. Here's my personal story with Windows 8. I built a PC about a month ago after using macs for several years. I'd heard all the horror stories about Win8 and was going to get Windows 7, but someone recommended that I get 8 instead, saying that it wasn't anywhere near as bad as people were saying. They were right, it's not, though it does have more of a learning curve than it should. I missed having a start menu at first, but that went away when I discovered I could easily launch apps or control panels in a similar way to how I did it on the mac. On the mac I used Quicksilver - I'd hit ctrl-space type a few letters of the name and hit enter to launch the app. On windows 8 you can do the same by hitting the windows key, typing a few letters and hitting enter. In addition, I have the applications I use most pinned to the taskbar. I'd originally planned to install one of the 3rd party start menus, but ended up not needing to.
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- xpose2000 13y agoI've been using Windows 8 for months now and just about every update mentioned I am completely uninterested in. The only exception is IE11.
- fitzpasd 13y agoWhat are you interested in? I've been using Win8 since launch and I'm looking forward to: - View all apps by swiping up - No longer auto-put app tiles on my Start screen - Improved windows store search - Different size app multi-screening - Boot to a different screen - Change which screen 'Start' gets you to - Edit functionality of corners
- Tomdarkness 13y agoFor me, personally, none of these changes interest me, perhaps with the exception of IE11. I've had Windows 8 installed on my desktop PC since it came out as I took advantage of their cheap upgrade offer from Windows 7 (I'd not of paid full price for it). So here are my thoughts on the improvements in Windows 8.1 as someone who uses it on a desktop, with a keyboard and mouse. Personalization: The only time I ever see the new start menu is when I quickly press Start and begin typing the name of some application I want to launch. I've never rearranged any of the tiles and my screen is always off when I'm at the lock screen so a slideshow on the lock screen is totally useless for me. Search: "It is the modern version of the command line" What? How is a integrated desktop and web search a modern version of the command line. That makes no sense. I'd never use this new functionality anyway since I don't use Bing and I can easily access google from my always open web browser. Apps and Windows Store: Never used any metro apps or installed anything from the Windows Store. I don't really feel that any of the metro apps have taken any thought for those who are not using a touch interface. Cloud Connectivity: "In Windows 8.1 your files can be saved directly to SkyDrive, so you can always have your files with you." Wait, you could not do this before Windows 8.1? I've never used SkyDrive but it seems silly to me that you can now only just save your files directly to SkyDrive. PC Settings: I can use the control panel just fine. Internet Explorer: More frequent versions of IE seems like a good thing, although I'd be more interested in the details of what is new generally rather than just the new features for what seems to be the metro version. Better Mouse and Keyboard Options: I see two minor tweaks, there is now a windows logo and I can now configure what happens when I place my cursor in different corners. How are these better options for keyboards and mouses? I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer base; those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops. Sure, I understand that these improvements will most likely be useful for those who use Windows on their touch based device but these people are surely in the minority so why focus the content of your "new features" announcement for the minority?
- jonas_maj 13y agoThey have made it very clear that they are doubling down on a touch-first vision they started with Windows 8. Just out of curiosity, have you tried Windows 8 on a touch-based device(Laptop or Tablet)?
- mattmaroon 13y agoI'll probably still be using Start8 to turn it into a slightly better Windows 7.
- bluedevil2k 13y agoI had to get a new laptop for my wife, and I had no interest in educating her how to use Windows 8 (or figuring it out myself). The only way it's been usable for her was to install Start8. (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/). It's what MSFT should be adding into 8.1 I have no financial interest in StarDock.
- leviathant 13y agoThe absence of a start menu was confusing to me for about three minutes, and then I figured out that the Metro screen is the start menu, just full size. Ever since you've been able to pin programs to the taskbar at the bottom (or side if you prefer) of the screen, my usage of the start menu fell to pressing start, and typing the name of the program I hadn't pinned to the taskbar. The start screen's the same for me, mostly, except I also click on "Weather" and occasionally use the Trackage app. While I don't think the Metro interface is the solution for everything or even a primary direction to go in (I'm in desktop mode 98% of the time) I also think putting a start menu back in is a step in the wrong direction.
- talmand 13y agoI agree, restoring a small feature (that doesn't prevent you from using the product the way you like) that has been requested by a large number of customers and may get them to like the product better is a definite step in the wrong direction.
- leviathant 13y agoBy jove, I detect a note of sarcasm in your reply! You seem to have command of a wealth of anecdotes - why do people request this feature? Is it because they're confused, or does it have functionality that is lost in the start screen? While it may be physically small on screen, is not an insignificant change in functionality. Really, why stop there - let's bring back the Program Manager!
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- itsbits 13y agoPersonalisation may be useful for WP8 as well..when are they planning to update WP8?
- hipponax3 13y ago8.1 is free, so it's the update for 8.0
- JonoW 13y agoOne welcome change is the "PC settings" one - sounds like all settings are "metrofied", which will help the reduce the jarring flip to desktop mode when you're not expecting it.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- edtechdev 13y ago"the Search charm will provide global search results powered by Bing" This is similar to what Ubuntu users complained about when they included Amazon results in any searches. Hopefully there will be an option to disable it and/or switch to another search provider.
- pdubs 13y ago>aggregated view of many content sources I hope this means that the main Start Screen search will now search across programs and settings. Makes it much easier for things that may or may not be settings or apps (Control Panel, Device Manager, Event Viewer, Disk Administration). That's been my #1 gripe with Win8 from day 1; they got rid of universal start menu searching.
- alan_cx 13y agoFor what its worth.... Its my No3 son's 14th birthday and he has gathered enough money for a new PC. He wants a new one for school and games. He is not some geek programming whiz kid. He "uses" a computer, he "consumes" the internet. He is, in short, a mere kid user. He already owns a laptop with Windows 8. The discussion on spec and costs comes round to the operating system. Exact quote: "I don't want windows 8, its a load of complete sh... crap. I'd rather have Windows 7". Kinda took me by surprise. I assumed being a kid he'd like and want the newest, latest, whizzy thing. But no. Even a 14yo lad who is not a geek doesn't want Windows 8, even after using for many months. I reckon that is pretty damning.
- BCM43 13y agoHow much of that is him actually having tried it out and deciding that he does not like it, and how much is him having heard about windows 8, and deciding through that?
- alan_cx 13y agoYeah fair point, and I wonder how much influence I might have had too. On the me front, I have never discussed or commented on it to or with him. Frankly, such discussion would bore him senseless. The discussion about the PC spec, which was me trying to match budget with expectation, was hard work!!! But, the one thing he jumped on was not AMD v Intel, not RAM or disk size, not graphics card chip set, its was no Windows 8. As for usage v PR, all I can say is that, as I tried to point out with my not geek comment, he is not in circles where things like OS's and PC specs are important. He not a computer person. As I said, he is a consumer, not a creator or hacker. The tech details are as important to him as the tech details of a TV or stereo. Basically, does it do what I want? See what I mean? Also, he has used Windows 8 for months on his laptop. Plenty of time to get over initial shock and simply get used to it. Well, clearly, he hasn't. So, in his case, I would say his rejection of Win8 is experienced based and genuinely his own.
- prawks 13y agoHe stated he owns a Windows 8 laptop already, which is very revealing. I'd also say his interest in Windows over OSX makes him much less of a bandwagon-rider (though it could be the pricetag as well).
- BruceIV 13y agoI've been using Windows 8 on my (multi-monitor) desktop for a few months now, and the feature I'm most excited about is the ability to launch Metro apps on both screens. There still aren't many good ones, but it's annoying when I want to play backgammon while watching Netflix. Hopefully they also make the Start screen dragable from screen to screen like all the Metro apps - it's an odd incongruity in their design.
- k3n 13y agoOh look, MS is again proselytizing what a huge success Win8 has been.
- kabdib 13y agoThere's a lot of nice work under the hood in Win8. It's too bad the internal politics completely submerged it. A simple "Sorry, we screwed up" would be nice to hear, rather than the "Advancing forward into the bright future, we added a Start Button^H^H^H^H^H^H Tip" Let's put it another way: The moment that I hear the next version of Visual Studio /requires/ Win8 or its ilk to run, I'm looking hard at moving everything I do to Linux.
- bornhuetter 13y agoI don't think they particularly have screwed up. Sure, removing the start button was a bad idea, but it's been blown way out of proportion. It was pretty obvious that the media and a lot of users were going to hate Windows 8 regardless of how good or bad it was, so Microsoft have to just keep pushing with the marketingspeak/bullshit. To "admit failure" would be to play into the hands of those trying to paint Windows 8 (completely unfairly) as New Coke. That being said, why not move to Linux now? Ubuntu and many other distributions are already excellent desktop environments and are great for programming. What sort of work are you doing? You're probably either stuck in Windows, or you may as well move now.
- kabdib 13y agoI don't want to move to Linux yet because (A) the development environments for C++ are still way better on Windows, and (B) it's a pain in the ass to move everything else. Once (A) is gone, it's a powerful incentive to look seriously at Windows as a going concern.
- mikecane 13y agoThis might help but I think everyone is missing one of the reasons why desktop sales have tanked: Their screens. People who are using tablets don't want to look at grainy big screens. These screens look blurry. Stop in any store and check out the all-in-one Win 8 touch desktops. Their screens are awful. And yes blah blah blah higher-res NON-touchscreen with mouse -- but going back to a mouse after touch? That's another step back.
- bornhuetter 13y agoOf course that's one of the big reasons, but Microsoft don't want to say it because they don't want to be too critical of OEMs in public - and the media don't want to say it because many of them want to paint Windows 8 as a failure. Haswell reportedly has enough power in the GPU to support high res screens using just the integrated graphics - so we should see better screens in 2013 H2. Samsung and others have already announced some incredible laptop screens for upcoming devices.
- NZ_Matt 13y agoDoes the average person buying a laptop from Bestbuy really care that much about screen resolution? The longer lifespans of PCs and laptops combined with the popularity of smartphones and iPads is a more likely reason for the drop off in sales.
- astrodust 13y agoSo long as a person's existing computer can still view Facebook, check email, and watch YouTube videos, there's no real impetus for them to upgrade. That tablets and phones are quite capable of doing this means there's even less need for a new PC. Microsoft doesn't add anything new. Windows 95 was appreciably better at doing what people already did, there was reason to upgrade, and Windows XP took that even further. Ever since then they've been pretty rudderless. Windows 7 doesn't offer anything that Windows XP can't already do, apart from the new theming. At least it's inoffensive, though, and lets you do whatever you want to do without putting up a fuss. Windows 8 is something nobody wants or needs, it's a very hard sell, and it's even more bizarre that Microsoft would be pushing so hard on touch into the market that least wants it: Corporate IT.
- crb 13y agoWorth noting: the release of Windows 8 brings IE11, which means that Google's "n-1" policy for browsers will now deprecate IE9. IE9 is the last version that runs on Windows Vista (as IE8 was the latest version to run on Windows XP.)
- craigching 13y agoThe quote I found most interesting was this: "The response to Windows 8 has been substantial" substantial not positive, funny that!