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So you're pro-"inspire" but anti-"influence"? Not to go all Webster on you, but the primary definition of inspire is to influence: in*spire verb (used wi

by espeed 13y ago

So you're pro-"inspire" but anti-"influence"? Not to go all Webster on you, but the primary definition of inspire is to influence: in*spire verb (used with object) 1. to fill with an animating, quickening, or exalting influence: His courage inspired his followers. 2. to produce or arouse (a feeling, thought, etc.): to inspire confidence in others. 3. to fill or affect with a specified feeling, thought, etc.: to inspire a person with distrust. 4. to influence or impel: Competition inspired her to greater efforts. 5. to animate, as an influence, feeling, thought, or the like, does: They were inspired by a belief in a better future. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inspire http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inspire BTW: You do realize your entire thread has been an argument of influence, advocating your point of view?

pdonis 13y ago
So you're pro-"inspire" but anti-"influence"? When appropriately defined, yes. See below. the primary definition of inspire is to influence Ah, you would rather continue to play word games than actually address the substance of my argument. But sure, I'll play. I could quibble with your claim that the primary definition of inspire is to influence, since in that definition, "influence" is used as a noun, not a verb. But that's really a side issue, because you didn't bother to ask me in which sense I was using the word "inspire" (or "influence", for that matter), or to take into account the context in which I used the words. That context should have made it evident that senses #2 and #3 of "inspire" are the ones I meant, and those do not mean the same as "influence" as a verb. I suppose, for the record, I should also make explicit that I am using "influence" in sense #8 of the dictionary definition, taken from the same dictionary you used: 8. to move or impel (a person) to some action: Outside factors influenced her to resign. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/influence http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/influence You do realize your entire thread has been an argument of influence, advocating your point of view? I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make this play. :-) Fortunately, it's easy to refute since I just gave the dictionary definition of "influence" in the sense I've been using the term. I'm not trying to move anyone to any action; I'm just trying to explain why the post bothered me enough to rant about it, and then to clarify my position in response to questions and counterarguments. I don't want or expect anyone to drop what they're doing and devote time and energy to something else as a result of what I say. If anything, I hope that people will be less likely to do that in response to "influence", as a result of what I say.
- espeed 13y ago
  Did you bother to ask Bret in which sense he was using the word "influence"?
  - pdonis 13y ago
    Fair question. No, I didn't, because I had no way to do so; I don't know him, there's no way to comment on the article linked to in the OP, and he doesn't appear to be posting here on HN. So all I had to go on was the linked article and the context of how he used the word "influence" in it. I have said, several times, that my reaction is my personal judgment and that others' judgments may differ. (I also said I agree with his general point that tools for thinking have much more impact than particular solutions to particular problems.) And as regards the substantive question: do you disagree that he is trying to move people to take actions that they would not otherwise have taken? That he is trying to get people to spend time and energy on developing tools for thinking, instead of something else?
    - espeed 13y ago
      No, I do not think he's trying to twist anyone's arm -- that's not his style. Have you watched his videos? "Inventing on Principle" http://worrydream.com/#!/InventingOnPrinciple http://worrydream.com/#!/InventingOnPrinciple "Media for Thinking the Unthinkable" (MIT Media Lab) http://worrydream.com/#!/MediaForThinkingTheUnthinkable http://worrydream.com/#!/MediaForThinkingTheUnthinkable He's making the case that when information is presented in a way that enables you to visualize and interact with it, then it makes it easier understand and develop intuition because you're better able to "explore it from every angle" (he's referencing Feynman here), and for that reason, it's a worthwhile endeavor. "It's not quite true that Feynman could not accept an idea until he had torn it apart. Rather, the idea could not yet be part of his way of thinking and looking at the world. Before an idea could contribute to that worldview, Feynman wanted to turn over the idea, to see why it was true, from any angle that he could find" (http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/04/08/how-richard-feynman-thought/ http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/04/08/how-richard-feynman-t...). If you've only read this blog post, watch the two videos above, and see if you still have the same impression.

by espeed 13y ago

pdonis 13y ago

So you're pro-"inspire" but anti-"influence"? When appropriately defined, yes. See below. the primary definition of inspire is to influence Ah, you would rather continue to play word games than actually address the substance of my argument. But sure, I'll play. I could quibble with your claim that the primary definition of inspire is to influence, since in that definition, "influence" is used as a noun, not a verb. But that's really a side issue, because you didn't bother to ask me in which sense I was using the word "inspire" (or "influence", for that matter), or to take into account the context in which I used the words. That context should have made it evident that senses #2 and #3 of "inspire" are the ones I meant, and those do not mean the same as "influence" as a verb. I suppose, for the record, I should also make explicit that I am using "influence" in sense #8 of the dictionary definition, taken from the same dictionary you used: 8. to move or impel (a person) to some action: Outside factors influenced her to resign. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/influence http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/influence You do realize your entire thread has been an argument of influence, advocating your point of view? I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make this play. :-) Fortunately, it's easy to refute since I just gave the dictionary definition of "influence" in the sense I've been using the term. I'm not trying to move anyone to any action; I'm just trying to explain why the post bothered me enough to rant about it, and then to clarify my position in response to questions and counterarguments. I don't want or expect anyone to drop what they're doing and devote time and energy to something else as a result of what I say. If anything, I hope that people will be less likely to do that in response to "influence", as a result of what I say.

espeed 13y ago
Did you bother to ask Bret in which sense he was using the word "influence"?
- pdonis 13y ago
  Fair question. No, I didn't, because I had no way to do so; I don't know him, there's no way to comment on the article linked to in the OP, and he doesn't appear to be posting here on HN. So all I had to go on was the linked article and the context of how he used the word "influence" in it. I have said, several times, that my reaction is my personal judgment and that others' judgments may differ. (I also said I agree with his general point that tools for thinking have much more impact than particular solutions to particular problems.) And as regards the substantive question: do you disagree that he is trying to move people to take actions that they would not otherwise have taken? That he is trying to get people to spend time and energy on developing tools for thinking, instead of something else?
  - espeed 13y ago
    No, I do not think he's trying to twist anyone's arm -- that's not his style. Have you watched his videos? "Inventing on Principle" http://worrydream.com/#!/InventingOnPrinciple http://worrydream.com/#!/InventingOnPrinciple "Media for Thinking the Unthinkable" (MIT Media Lab) http://worrydream.com/#!/MediaForThinkingTheUnthinkable http://worrydream.com/#!/MediaForThinkingTheUnthinkable He's making the case that when information is presented in a way that enables you to visualize and interact with it, then it makes it easier understand and develop intuition because you're better able to "explore it from every angle" (he's referencing Feynman here), and for that reason, it's a worthwhile endeavor. "It's not quite true that Feynman could not accept an idea until he had torn it apart. Rather, the idea could not yet be part of his way of thinking and looking at the world. Before an idea could contribute to that worldview, Feynman wanted to turn over the idea, to see why it was true, from any angle that he could find" (http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/04/08/how-richard-feynman-thought/ http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/04/08/how-richard-feynman-t...). If you've only read this blog post, watch the two videos above, and see if you still have the same impression.