6 ms·

The instructions are in a note. If I understand your attack, you'd need to set up a clone website that resends the password in the clear, have a malicious netw

The instructions are in a note. If I understand your attack, you'd need to set up a clone website that resends the password in the clear, have a malicious network redirect me to it and get me to enter my password. I'm happy to enable to you to demonstrate that it works. The hardest part is presenting a valid SSL certificate. As I warned in the initial post, "I won't promise to log in if you can't provide a valid SSL certificate." Email me and we can arrange the details.

michael_h 13y ago
Didn't Iran get a valid SSL certificate for *.google.com a while ago? Edit: Found an article, by cperciva no less: http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2011-09-01-Iran-forged-the-wrong-SSL-certificate.html http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2011-09-01-Iran-forged-the-w...
- marshray 13y ago
  Among others. They were using them to conduct targeted and dragnet man-in-the-middle attacks in the country for weeks or months before any users spoke up and browsers were patched.
  - dylz 13y ago
    If Chrome was involved, it aggressively refuses to use anything but the whitelisted fingerprints and will notify Google if MITM is detected for any high profile hosts.
moxie 13y ago
No need to setup a clone website or to obtain a valid SSL certificate. If I'm in a position to observe a notecrypt users's communication (the reason encryption is necessary), I can just run sslstrip (no SSL certificate required). It will transparently intercept all of the notecrypt users's plaintext communication to notecrypt without generating any browser warnings. At that point I also have the opportunity to modify any of the plaintext traffic as it passes by. The user will be communicating with your actual website (no need to setup a clone), but I can just modify the JS as it is transmitted to the user so that it doesn't actually encrypt anything. This attack just requires running a single command, no complex setup required. You might want to read more about sslstrip to understand how this works.
- rarrrrrr 13y ago
  FWIW, my reading of the OP is that it's stipulated that the user will check for the presence of a valid SSL session (i.e. with in browser visual indicators) before login. BTW, have been following your work on TACK with great interest.
  - j0ev 13y ago
    That's a bad assumption. I could feasibly purchase the appsp0t.com domain, grab an ssl cert for nodecrypt.appsp0t.com, hop onto the LAN and run sslstrip, redirect the user to https://nodecrypt.appsp0t.com https://nodecrypt.appsp0t.com and wall-a, green address bar with a close looking address. That would probably fool me. The "green" indicator is nice but definitely should not be relied upon to protect the user. note: i used appsp0t as an example, no idea if its really available to be bought. Edit: it's not letting me reply to the below comment (probably because this is a new account), but afair most browsers have fixed the IDN problem by checking for "suspicious" characters (characters that look similar to roman glyphs) and forcing the URL to be rendered in the full punycode URL.
    - ryalfalpha 13y ago
      I think it's also worth pointing out in Moxie's sslstrip talk he does go into detail on using IDN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name to spoof something similar (for non-english TLDs). Not sure how valid that still is (as the talk is a couple of years old? I only watched it today), but it has to be assumed that a portion of users are going to fall for even a badly mimicked url. Gotta say the IDN stuff is impressive in how generalised it could be. Terrifying. I'm convinced he's owed the $1,000.
      - Dylan16807 13y ago
        And what is the method of bypassing the similar-glyph detection and the very strict language whitelists for different TLDs?
ctz 13y ago
You won't need any SSL. A user's typical first interaction with notecrypt will be through http://notecrypt.appspot.com http://notecrypt.appspot.com (which just needs to evil reverse proxy to the actual site or an emulation, while backdooring the javascript to send the password somewhere). The client never sees any SSL.
wglb 13y ago
I suggest that you concede. It is easy enough for you to demonstrate it to yourself with the components that he describes.

michael_h 13y ago

Didn't Iran get a valid SSL certificate for *.google.com a while ago? Edit: Found an article, by cperciva no less: http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2011-09-01-Iran-forged-the-wrong-SSL-certificate.html http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2011-09-01-Iran-forged-the-w...

marshray 13y ago
Among others. They were using them to conduct targeted and dragnet man-in-the-middle attacks in the country for weeks or months before any users spoke up and browsers were patched.
- dylz 13y ago
  If Chrome was involved, it aggressively refuses to use anything but the whitelisted fingerprints and will notify Google if MITM is detected for any high profile hosts.

moxie 13y ago

No need to setup a clone website or to obtain a valid SSL certificate. If I'm in a position to observe a notecrypt users's communication (the reason encryption is necessary), I can just run sslstrip (no SSL certificate required). It will transparently intercept all of the notecrypt users's plaintext communication to notecrypt without generating any browser warnings. At that point I also have the opportunity to modify any of the plaintext traffic as it passes by. The user will be communicating with your actual website (no need to setup a clone), but I can just modify the JS as it is transmitted to the user so that it doesn't actually encrypt anything. This attack just requires running a single command, no complex setup required. You might want to read more about sslstrip to understand how this works.

rarrrrrr 13y ago
FWIW, my reading of the OP is that it's stipulated that the user will check for the presence of a valid SSL session (i.e. with in browser visual indicators) before login. BTW, have been following your work on TACK with great interest.
- j0ev 13y ago
  That's a bad assumption. I could feasibly purchase the appsp0t.com domain, grab an ssl cert for nodecrypt.appsp0t.com, hop onto the LAN and run sslstrip, redirect the user to https://nodecrypt.appsp0t.com https://nodecrypt.appsp0t.com and wall-a, green address bar with a close looking address. That would probably fool me. The "green" indicator is nice but definitely should not be relied upon to protect the user. note: i used appsp0t as an example, no idea if its really available to be bought. Edit: it's not letting me reply to the below comment (probably because this is a new account), but afair most browsers have fixed the IDN problem by checking for "suspicious" characters (characters that look similar to roman glyphs) and forcing the URL to be rendered in the full punycode URL.
  - ryalfalpha 13y ago
    I think it's also worth pointing out in Moxie's sslstrip talk he does go into detail on using IDN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name to spoof something similar (for non-english TLDs). Not sure how valid that still is (as the talk is a couple of years old? I only watched it today), but it has to be assumed that a portion of users are going to fall for even a badly mimicked url. Gotta say the IDN stuff is impressive in how generalised it could be. Terrifying. I'm convinced he's owed the $1,000.
    - Dylan16807 13y ago
      And what is the method of bypassing the similar-glyph detection and the very strict language whitelists for different TLDs?

ctz 13y ago

You won't need any SSL. A user's typical first interaction with notecrypt will be through http://notecrypt.appspot.com http://notecrypt.appspot.com (which just needs to evil reverse proxy to the actual site or an emulation, while backdooring the javascript to send the password somewhere). The client never sees any SSL.

wglb 13y ago

I suggest that you concede. It is easy enough for you to demonstrate it to yourself with the components that he describes.