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My question is, what if he's wrong? "All models are wrong, but some are useful." -George Box. Models get refined over time. Only the omniscient see the entire

by espeed 13y ago

My question is, what if he's wrong? "All models are wrong, but some are useful." -George Box. Models get refined over time. Only the omniscient see the entirety. Newton had an incomplete picture of gravity, but it put us on the path. It's the fundamental shifts -- the leaps in thinking -- that illuminate new areas to explore. If he's right, why bother expending all this effort to influence people to see what he sees? Have you ever been inspired by a great teacher? Great teachers begin by inspiring their students. "It is the supreme art of the teacher to awaken joy in creative expression and knowledge." --Albert Einstein "We expert teachers know that motivation and emotional impact are what matter." -- Donald Norman He admits he doesn't know, because nobody knows what will be important in 100 years. The residual impact from communicating your insights can last well beyond 100 years, especially if you provide new puzzle pieces that fill in our gaps of understanding, connect domains, and contribute to a more complete picture. "A teacher affects eternity; he can never tell where his influence stops." --Henry Adams Someone who did not try to communicate their understanding would be doing a disservice to us all. You never know what pieces someone else may be missing.

pdonis 13y ago
"All models are wrong, but some are useful." Sure, but all this means is that you and I should both have used the word "useful" instead of "wrong". It doesn't materially change what I said: he doesn't know his ideas will be useful, he just believes they will, and the impact if he's wrong about that is still just what I said. Have you ever been inspired by a great teacher? Sure, but he didn't use the word "inspire". He used the word "influence". The great teachers that inspired me didn't tell me what to work on; they just told me I had a lot of potential and I should find something good to do with it. What he's saying is a lot more specific than that. Someone who did not try to communicate their understanding would be doing a disservice to us all. Again, he's not just communicating his understanding (which I agree is beneficial). He's trying to get people to do something different than they would have done otherwise. He doesn't just think "this stuff would be useful for others to know". He thinks "people should devote their time and energy to this thing I believe in". That's a very different matter.
- espeed 13y ago
  So you're pro-"inspire" but anti-"influence"? Not to go all Webster on you, but the primary definition of inspire is to influence: in*spire verb (used with object) 1. to fill with an animating, quickening, or exalting influence: His courage inspired his followers. 2. to produce or arouse (a feeling, thought, etc.): to inspire confidence in others. 3. to fill or affect with a specified feeling, thought, etc.: to inspire a person with distrust. 4. to influence or impel: Competition inspired her to greater efforts. 5. to animate, as an influence, feeling, thought, or the like, does: They were inspired by a belief in a better future. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inspire http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inspire BTW: You do realize your entire thread has been an argument of influence, advocating your point of view?
  - pdonis 13y ago
    So you're pro-"inspire" but anti-"influence"? When appropriately defined, yes. See below. the primary definition of inspire is to influence Ah, you would rather continue to play word games than actually address the substance of my argument. But sure, I'll play. I could quibble with your claim that the primary definition of inspire is to influence, since in that definition, "influence" is used as a noun, not a verb. But that's really a side issue, because you didn't bother to ask me in which sense I was using the word "inspire" (or "influence", for that matter), or to take into account the context in which I used the words. That context should have made it evident that senses #2 and #3 of "inspire" are the ones I meant, and those do not mean the same as "influence" as a verb. I suppose, for the record, I should also make explicit that I am using "influence" in sense #8 of the dictionary definition, taken from the same dictionary you used: 8. to move or impel (a person) to some action: Outside factors influenced her to resign. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/influence http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/influence You do realize your entire thread has been an argument of influence, advocating your point of view? I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make this play. :-) Fortunately, it's easy to refute since I just gave the dictionary definition of "influence" in the sense I've been using the term. I'm not trying to move anyone to any action; I'm just trying to explain why the post bothered me enough to rant about it, and then to clarify my position in response to questions and counterarguments. I don't want or expect anyone to drop what they're doing and devote time and energy to something else as a result of what I say. If anything, I hope that people will be less likely to do that in response to "influence", as a result of what I say.

by espeed 13y ago

pdonis 13y ago

"All models are wrong, but some are useful." Sure, but all this means is that you and I should both have used the word "useful" instead of "wrong". It doesn't materially change what I said: he doesn't know his ideas will be useful, he just believes they will, and the impact if he's wrong about that is still just what I said. Have you ever been inspired by a great teacher? Sure, but he didn't use the word "inspire". He used the word "influence". The great teachers that inspired me didn't tell me what to work on; they just told me I had a lot of potential and I should find something good to do with it. What he's saying is a lot more specific than that. Someone who did not try to communicate their understanding would be doing a disservice to us all. Again, he's not just communicating his understanding (which I agree is beneficial). He's trying to get people to do something different than they would have done otherwise. He doesn't just think "this stuff would be useful for others to know". He thinks "people should devote their time and energy to this thing I believe in". That's a very different matter.

espeed 13y ago
So you're pro-"inspire" but anti-"influence"? Not to go all Webster on you, but the primary definition of inspire is to influence: in*spire verb (used with object) 1. to fill with an animating, quickening, or exalting influence: His courage inspired his followers. 2. to produce or arouse (a feeling, thought, etc.): to inspire confidence in others. 3. to fill or affect with a specified feeling, thought, etc.: to inspire a person with distrust. 4. to influence or impel: Competition inspired her to greater efforts. 5. to animate, as an influence, feeling, thought, or the like, does: They were inspired by a belief in a better future. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inspire http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inspire BTW: You do realize your entire thread has been an argument of influence, advocating your point of view?
- pdonis 13y ago
  So you're pro-"inspire" but anti-"influence"? When appropriately defined, yes. See below. the primary definition of inspire is to influence Ah, you would rather continue to play word games than actually address the substance of my argument. But sure, I'll play. I could quibble with your claim that the primary definition of inspire is to influence, since in that definition, "influence" is used as a noun, not a verb. But that's really a side issue, because you didn't bother to ask me in which sense I was using the word "inspire" (or "influence", for that matter), or to take into account the context in which I used the words. That context should have made it evident that senses #2 and #3 of "inspire" are the ones I meant, and those do not mean the same as "influence" as a verb. I suppose, for the record, I should also make explicit that I am using "influence" in sense #8 of the dictionary definition, taken from the same dictionary you used: 8. to move or impel (a person) to some action: Outside factors influenced her to resign. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/influence http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/influence You do realize your entire thread has been an argument of influence, advocating your point of view? I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make this play. :-) Fortunately, it's easy to refute since I just gave the dictionary definition of "influence" in the sense I've been using the term. I'm not trying to move anyone to any action; I'm just trying to explain why the post bothered me enough to rant about it, and then to clarify my position in response to questions and counterarguments. I don't want or expect anyone to drop what they're doing and devote time and energy to something else as a result of what I say. If anything, I hope that people will be less likely to do that in response to "influence", as a result of what I say.