10 ms·

Getting a job in San Francisco

152 points by fabienpenso 13y ago

swampthing 13y ago
Although this is written for French developers looking to come to the US, I found it interesting as a window into what things are like in France. Thanks for writing it!
- zerr 13y ago
  AFAIK salaries are rather low there, but cost of living is quite expensive.
  - nraynaud 13y ago
    As far I as know, here in France CS engineers are never hungry, but they don't have nice cars. I'd say middle class. There is a difference in value here, marketing and sales people are paid more than engineers, and they generally rule the show. Startups are often created or ruled by people out of a business school. F.Penso is an exception I think because he's the original French startup guy, tinkerer and hipster (I mean this guy has a soviet era photo camera) since the first wave of startup hype. I'm slightly disappointed he didn't strike it rich because he's been active in the field for quite some time (and he built what was one of the biggest french websites at the time).
    - fabienpenso 13y ago
      > I'm slightly disappointed he didn't strike it rich because he's been active in the field for quite some time I appreciate your comment but I'm not disappointed. If being rich means working 20 hours a day for 5 years will little luck of success in the end (like any startups), I'm not willing to pay the price. I've traveled months per year the recent years, spent a year in Asia, rided 22,000 kilometers in India on Enfield (and about to go again for 4 months) and so more much I can't list here. I feel very lucky of my current position. However I have to say the feeling I had when living in San Francisco is as following. If I had spent as much time and dedication on my projects while living in San Francisco instead of Paris, I would have had 100 times more in return than what I've had in France. On a money level, as well as on a professional level. Might be too late now.
  - cxx 13y ago
    That is not only in France, it's in all Europe. Salaries in Germany, The Netherlands, UK and so on are much much lower than in SF or NY. Developer jobs that pay more than 60k euro are few and far between. A 50k+ job is already above average and upgrading is not going to be easy.
    - fabienpenso 13y ago
      The difference is, Europe see developers as commodities. They don't care, they don't need them as much as they do in San Francisco. San Francisco see developers as the only way to achieve their project they just raised 10 millions for. You're gold to them, they accept to pay a higher price. In Europe most young developers want to be Product Manager (or any Manager positions), most developers in SF don't care about this, they want to have fun. The reason could be you get paid super well in SF, and not in Europe :)
      - seivan 13y ago
        Exactly This. MBA's aren't a joke in EU. They are actually taken seriously..
        cxx 13y ago
        They aren't a joke in the US or the rest of the world either. It's only in certain circles that they're not valued. There's plenty of companies where an MBA from a well-known university is a passport stamp (and prerequisite) to a high paying job.
      - cxx 13y ago
        Absolutely, I completely agree with those things. I don't think devs here want to go into some kind of management position because they're not having fun in a technical job. It's because technical jobs in Europe are a dead end. You can make a living (just pray you don't get fired after your 50s), but anyone with a bit of ambition can see that it's just not worth it in the long run. Why stay as a developer when you can go into a cushy management or presales position that pays easily over 100k?
      - 13y ago
  - reeses 13y ago
    And don't buy the 35-hour workweek for a second. As a developer, especially a lead, the hours can be very similar to the USA.
guylhem 13y ago
>When rejecting candidates for my own company I wanted to tell them why I rejected them, and how to improve, but I have been told not to do it, for legal reason. When the laws prevent you from giving actionable feedback to the person you didn't hire, you know it has gone too far. The government should have no business in your selection or rejection of new hires, and the firing of them if needed. >I believe the US way to be better I don't. It may be less backward bent than France, but there is certainly a lot of room for improvement - like being able to give proper feedback.
- alecco 13y ago
  I don't buy it. The legal reason is to be short. It's not about being rude. The valley's hiring standards are dismal and everybody is just following Google's antisocial geek stance. I believe they need to grow up as this will backfire. Good candidates are already being headhunted by competitors with smarter hiring policies.
- CoachRufus87 13y ago
  The government doesn't prevent you from giving actionable feedback to the person you didn't hire, it just gives the person you didn't hire the ability to sue you should you not hire them based on some criteria (race, sex, religion, or whatever their lawyer can argue).
  - S4M 13y ago
    I thought the real reason was that if you have a candidate that is, say, Black, and you tell him that you didn't hire him because you "felt that he didn't have enough knowledge of Ruby", he would be able to sue you if he found out you hired someone who supposedly has the same level of knowledge of ruby as him.
    - timr 13y ago
      Sorta. The real reason is that you're giving the other party information that they can use in court. It's the same basic principle as "don't talk to the police without a lawyer" -- you can argue that it's paranoid, but it's a functional sort of paranoia. You have everything to lose and very little to gain.
thedjpetersen 13y ago
Would love to also see a follow-up piece about getting a job in Paris
- fabienpenso 13y ago
  Well there is a huge difference. As a Software Engineer you want to work in San Francisco because it's where your job happens. In Paris, nothing happens on that level. If you do want to come to Paris it's because of the amazing food, lifestyle, public transportation system, and certainly not because of the amazing startups we should have.
  - danielharan 13y ago
    I'd say that in Paris, a referral is necessary and often sufficient. Le "piston". In SF, it's often necessary and hardly ever sufficient.
    - fabienpenso 13y ago
      > I'd say that in Paris, a referral is necessary and often sufficient. Le "piston". +1. I think it's a core deep cultural issue about France. The whole system is completely corrupted, people are used to get "passe-droit" (not sure about the translation) for anything, and even the top Political leaders are acting this way. Politician asking cops not to be fined for something illegal they just did, a friend of a friend asking the School President to let their kid attend their school, etc. The whole French society is based on this. Many say it's a Monarchy, and not a Republic.
      - natrius 13y ago
        I think the English word you're looking for is "nepotism."
        vorador 13y ago
        "Passe-droit" means "special favor" in french.
suman_nandan 13y ago
This is a very well written piece with lots of good advice. Thanks a lot for writing this.
- stevewilhelm 13y ago
  > This is a very well written It may contain some interesting points, but it is obviously written by an ESL writer.
  - esperluette 13y ago
    The ESL-voice was part of the charm. It adds a note of authenticity. :-)
  - tonfa 13y ago
    That's international English (lingua franca). I find it fun when native speaker complain about ESL speakers, since in the end it is likely that international English will win. I live in a non-English speaking country, the common language in the office is international English (there are 60+ nationalities, and less than 20% are native english speaker). It would be fun to track over time if the native speakers start speaking international english :)
jordn 13y ago
Excellent post, thanks for writing it. The viewpoint of a French developer probably resonates with anyone from Europe. > You’ll see an immense amazing positive atmosphere everywhere, people working day time for a normal job and coding on evenings in coffee places, trying to work on their latest idea. They might even raise a few millions dollars on it, really. I completely appreciate this - it's an amazing cultural difference.
tzz 13y ago
I am not from SF and hard for me to believe that a company like Twitter cares about your look more than your technical expertise. I will add than Twitter had a specific atmosphere compared to other so called startups. The employees seem to be hired on more than skills, everyone at their office is very much hipster like, beautiful looking, feeling super confident and ready to kick it. Walking around Twitter sometimes almost feels like walking within a TV show.
- rm999 13y ago
  >cares about your look more than your technical expertise. In all fairness that's not what he said. Some companies - like google - have a very objective hiring process based almost entirely on technical skill. But many other companies include "fit" as a part of the hiring decision. I haven't interviewed at twitter but I could believe they are like that. I've thumbed down candidates who did well on the technical part of the interview because I felt I wouldn't get along with them day to day. Not as extreme as "beautiful" people who are "ready to kick it", but more like arrogance or social awkwardness.
  - fabienpenso 13y ago
    Thank you, that's exactly what I meant. I probably should improve that part of the article, and it could probably actually be removed. It was some sarcastic humor but in end, I never felt that visiting other companies. You do feel sometimes technical isn't enough, but at Twitter you could definitely feel you had to look good. And you could also feel how current employees were proud to be part of the adventure. Proud as being part of the topnotch Silicon Valley companies.
  - throwaway011001 13y ago
    Has the tech sector really come to the point where coders/geeks can't even be socially awkward anymore? I thought coding was one profession where socially awkward geeks could make an honest living.
    - rhizome 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
drpancake 13y ago
Interesting read. Does anyone have recent experience in obtaining a Green Card? I'd be interested to know how long it takes on average, transitioning from an H1-B visa. >Mecca for Software Engineers, the only place in the World where the guy in front at Starbucks has big chance to be Software developer. I'm a iOS developer and I love software, but this was one of my main reasons for leaving SF.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  It depends on a lot of factors. You can get an H1B and renew it once, and each period lasts 3 years. During your H1B, your company can sponsor your Green Card application, which in itself can take anywhere from 5 to 10 years - sometimes longer.
- reeses 13y ago
  It depends on the E status you can get. If you get sponsored for an E3, forget about it. With an E1 (say, you are the world expert in your field), you can have a green card very quickly. E2 can take a year or two. The other course, depending on your country of citizenship, is asylum, which enables you to skip the queue and apply for your green card after a year. However, fraud is a big issue and you will eventually get slammed.
  - arkem 13y ago
    I think you mean EB status not E status, which refers to the priority level of the green card application. I was really confused because an E3 is a visa very similar to a H1-B for Australians and an E1 is a visa for traders from countries that the US has a free trade agreement with.
    - reeses 13y ago
      YES! Early morning brain fart? :-) Thanks for clarifying that.
- jtarrio 13y ago
  Depending on your educational background and working experience, you go into one or another category. Most people here will fit in EB-3, EB-2 and EB-1. If you are in EB-1 you can get it in about a year; in EB-2 you can get it in two years unless you're from China or India; in EB-3 you can probably get it in seven years, unless you're from India.
jmduke 13y ago
To be honest, this makes me want to get a job in Paris. The way Fabien describes SF as a Mecca evokes the sense of wonder Woody Allen had about the City of Love: You know, I sometimes think, how is anyone ever gonna come up with a book, or a painting, or a symphony, or a sculpture that can compete with a great city. You can't. Because you look around and every street, every boulevard, is its own special art form and when you think that in the cold, violent, meaningless universe that Paris exists, these lights, I mean come on, there's nothing happening on Jupiter or Neptune, but from way out in space you can see these lights, the cafés, people drinking and singing. For all we know, Paris is the hottest spot in the universe. There's something nice about being in a city where everyone is one the same wavelength, but I think there's something more romantic about being holed up in a Parisian apartment that's stood the trial of centuries, committing to GitHub with the Eiffel Tower in the window (physical or otherwise) and such tremendous history all around you.
- zerr 13y ago
  ... in a 18 sq.m. "apartment".
  - nraynaud 13y ago
    I was sharing a 60sqm apartment with a couple there. (13th)
  - rhizome 13y ago
    To be sure, apartments tend to be smaller when and where more activity occurs outside in common spaces.
- fabienpenso 13y ago
  I do love the lifestyle we have in Paris, I think anyone being able to spend a year there should feel very fortunate. Of course French might not agree, but traveling months per year the recents years, I'm always happy to come back.
  - Gepsens 13y ago
alloftheabove 13y ago
Where do these salary numbers come from?
- JoeKM 13y ago
  I have to agree, 150k for senior engineer? I would say 100-120k for senior engineer, 75-100k for engineer, 50-60k for intern.
  - jcdavis 13y ago
    For the Bay Area these days, those numbers seem about right. Big companies pay 100k to new grads
    - kevintoaster 13y ago
      Seconded. Engineering salaries have jumped significantly recently. With 2 years experience out of college I've seen people getting offers of 120k - 140k.
  - cxx 13y ago
    Is there only a 20% difference between someone with 5-10 years of experience and someone straight out of college??
    - textminer 13y ago
      For the long-term career-conscious and money-hungry, it almost makes you want to plan a trajectory that doesn't plateau at "senior engineer". That seems like a shame/misuse of resources, doesn't it?
  - solarmist 13y ago
    I'm in my first midlevel engineering position and including my year end bonus I make about 125k and this was the salary they offered me. My asking price was below what they offered.
  - bdcravens 13y ago
ericdykstra 13y ago
As a junior web developer currently looking for my first full-time job programming in San Francisco, this all rings very true, and is a great summary of the job-hunting experience in the city. In my experience, referrals helped more than in the original poster's experience. Usually a referral skips me ahead to step 3 in the process (as laid out in the post).
guiomie 13y ago
I read this blog post with a french accent in my head.
danbmil99 13y ago
> But being rejected by a team because you’re not a fit doesn’t mean you can’t try another within the same company, if the company is big enough (Apple, Google, etc). Google's teams don't hire; Google hires (teams aren't even able to influence the process, by design) -- then you get placed on a team.
- mik3y 13y ago
  > Google's teams don't hire; Google hires (teams aren't even able to influence the process, by design) Not quite. While the generic SWE / new grad process is close to what you describe, individual teams and managers regularly exert a non-zero amount of influence: in screening and routing candidates, recommending the interview slate, getting the packet to hiring committee, and bidding on a candidate once an offer is made. It's also common for more specialized groups (such as Platforms) to have their own HC.
greghinch 13y ago
"French will note US companies don’t pay much tax on salaries like they do in France, what could make you think is a lot of money isn’t. Your French salary costs 40% extra to your company, but not in San Francisco." Not really the case. Taxes + benefits can easily add up to that much. General rule is it costs 150% of a salary to employ someone in the US. Much of what might be lumped into taxes in other countries is just paid for separately (such as healthcare), but the overall cost of the employee sounds like its about equal.
rodrigoavie 13y ago
What's wrong with Parisians?
- plopper 13y ago
  Basically, they were hipsters before it was cool.
pimeys 13y ago
I don't buy this. For me, the biggest problem in SF is that it is in US. Ever when I'm in that country I feel like I'm home. The politics, the crooked police, the expensive life... I don't want to be part of it. I really love Europe. This is my home continent with different countries and different people. I love to write code and I can get a pretty decent life also in Berlin. The weather is not so nice, but the city atmosphere really feels welcoming. And not all interesting challenges are in SF, believe me.
- RDeckard 13y ago
  Know that feel. I am from Canada (which is probably closer to US culturally than Europe) and having been here for 5 years, I am really really home sick...
nchuhoai 13y ago
What is the most important thing and what the article pointed out greatly is the need for the green card, without it, your life becomes incredibly dependent on your employer (unless you remain flexible). I'm going to college in the US, but am from Germany, and what makes me reluctant to plan a future in the US, is the requirement for me to bind myself to a company for in worst case 10+ years to have the certainty that I can stay in the US, should I chose not wanting to be employed. Aiming to be a freelancer or entrepreneur becomes next to impossible if you want to stay in the US without a green card. At least to my knowledge, I'd be happy to be wrong in this case.

152 points by fabienpenso 13y ago

Although this is written for French developers looking to come to the US, I found it interesting as a window into what things are like in France. Thanks for writing it!

zerr 13y ago
AFAIK salaries are rather low there, but cost of living is quite expensive.
- nraynaud 13y ago
  As far I as know, here in France CS engineers are never hungry, but they don't have nice cars. I'd say middle class. There is a difference in value here, marketing and sales people are paid more than engineers, and they generally rule the show. Startups are often created or ruled by people out of a business school. F.Penso is an exception I think because he's the original French startup guy, tinkerer and hipster (I mean this guy has a soviet era photo camera) since the first wave of startup hype. I'm slightly disappointed he didn't strike it rich because he's been active in the field for quite some time (and he built what was one of the biggest french websites at the time).
  - fabienpenso 13y ago
    > I'm slightly disappointed he didn't strike it rich because he's been active in the field for quite some time I appreciate your comment but I'm not disappointed. If being rich means working 20 hours a day for 5 years will little luck of success in the end (like any startups), I'm not willing to pay the price. I've traveled months per year the recent years, spent a year in Asia, rided 22,000 kilometers in India on Enfield (and about to go again for 4 months) and so more much I can't list here. I feel very lucky of my current position. However I have to say the feeling I had when living in San Francisco is as following. If I had spent as much time and dedication on my projects while living in San Francisco instead of Paris, I would have had 100 times more in return than what I've had in France. On a money level, as well as on a professional level. Might be too late now.
- cxx 13y ago
  That is not only in France, it's in all Europe. Salaries in Germany, The Netherlands, UK and so on are much much lower than in SF or NY. Developer jobs that pay more than 60k euro are few and far between. A 50k+ job is already above average and upgrading is not going to be easy.
  - fabienpenso 13y ago
    The difference is, Europe see developers as commodities. They don't care, they don't need them as much as they do in San Francisco. San Francisco see developers as the only way to achieve their project they just raised 10 millions for. You're gold to them, they accept to pay a higher price. In Europe most young developers want to be Product Manager (or any Manager positions), most developers in SF don't care about this, they want to have fun. The reason could be you get paid super well in SF, and not in Europe :)
    - seivan 13y ago
      Exactly This. MBA's aren't a joke in EU. They are actually taken seriously..
      - cxx 13y ago
        They aren't a joke in the US or the rest of the world either. It's only in certain circles that they're not valued. There's plenty of companies where an MBA from a well-known university is a passport stamp (and prerequisite) to a high paying job.
    - cxx 13y ago
      Absolutely, I completely agree with those things. I don't think devs here want to go into some kind of management position because they're not having fun in a technical job. It's because technical jobs in Europe are a dead end. You can make a living (just pray you don't get fired after your 50s), but anyone with a bit of ambition can see that it's just not worth it in the long run. Why stay as a developer when you can go into a cushy management or presales position that pays easily over 100k?
    - 13y ago
- reeses 13y ago
  And don't buy the 35-hour workweek for a second. As a developer, especially a lead, the hours can be very similar to the USA.

guylhem 13y ago

>When rejecting candidates for my own company I wanted to tell them why I rejected them, and how to improve, but I have been told not to do it, for legal reason. When the laws prevent you from giving actionable feedback to the person you didn't hire, you know it has gone too far. The government should have no business in your selection or rejection of new hires, and the firing of them if needed. >I believe the US way to be better I don't. It may be less backward bent than France, but there is certainly a lot of room for improvement - like being able to give proper feedback.

alecco 13y ago
I don't buy it. The legal reason is to be short. It's not about being rude. The valley's hiring standards are dismal and everybody is just following Google's antisocial geek stance. I believe they need to grow up as this will backfire. Good candidates are already being headhunted by competitors with smarter hiring policies.
CoachRufus87 13y ago
The government doesn't prevent you from giving actionable feedback to the person you didn't hire, it just gives the person you didn't hire the ability to sue you should you not hire them based on some criteria (race, sex, religion, or whatever their lawyer can argue).
- S4M 13y ago
  I thought the real reason was that if you have a candidate that is, say, Black, and you tell him that you didn't hire him because you "felt that he didn't have enough knowledge of Ruby", he would be able to sue you if he found out you hired someone who supposedly has the same level of knowledge of ruby as him.
  - timr 13y ago
    Sorta. The real reason is that you're giving the other party information that they can use in court. It's the same basic principle as "don't talk to the police without a lawyer" -- you can argue that it's paranoid, but it's a functional sort of paranoia. You have everything to lose and very little to gain.

thedjpetersen 13y ago

Would love to also see a follow-up piece about getting a job in Paris

fabienpenso 13y ago
Well there is a huge difference. As a Software Engineer you want to work in San Francisco because it's where your job happens. In Paris, nothing happens on that level. If you do want to come to Paris it's because of the amazing food, lifestyle, public transportation system, and certainly not because of the amazing startups we should have.
- danielharan 13y ago
  I'd say that in Paris, a referral is necessary and often sufficient. Le "piston". In SF, it's often necessary and hardly ever sufficient.
  - fabienpenso 13y ago
    > I'd say that in Paris, a referral is necessary and often sufficient. Le "piston". +1. I think it's a core deep cultural issue about France. The whole system is completely corrupted, people are used to get "passe-droit" (not sure about the translation) for anything, and even the top Political leaders are acting this way. Politician asking cops not to be fined for something illegal they just did, a friend of a friend asking the School President to let their kid attend their school, etc. The whole French society is based on this. Many say it's a Monarchy, and not a Republic.
    - natrius 13y ago
      I think the English word you're looking for is "nepotism."
      - vorador 13y ago
        "Passe-droit" means "special favor" in french.

suman_nandan 13y ago

This is a very well written piece with lots of good advice. Thanks a lot for writing this.

stevewilhelm 13y ago
> This is a very well written It may contain some interesting points, but it is obviously written by an ESL writer.
- esperluette 13y ago
  The ESL-voice was part of the charm. It adds a note of authenticity. :-)
- tonfa 13y ago
  That's international English (lingua franca). I find it fun when native speaker complain about ESL speakers, since in the end it is likely that international English will win. I live in a non-English speaking country, the common language in the office is international English (there are 60+ nationalities, and less than 20% are native english speaker). It would be fun to track over time if the native speakers start speaking international english :)

jordn 13y ago

Excellent post, thanks for writing it. The viewpoint of a French developer probably resonates with anyone from Europe. > You’ll see an immense amazing positive atmosphere everywhere, people working day time for a normal job and coding on evenings in coffee places, trying to work on their latest idea. They might even raise a few millions dollars on it, really. I completely appreciate this - it's an amazing cultural difference.

tzz 13y ago

I am not from SF and hard for me to believe that a company like Twitter cares about your look more than your technical expertise. I will add than Twitter had a specific atmosphere compared to other so called startups. The employees seem to be hired on more than skills, everyone at their office is very much hipster like, beautiful looking, feeling super confident and ready to kick it. Walking around Twitter sometimes almost feels like walking within a TV show.

rm999 13y ago
>cares about your look more than your technical expertise. In all fairness that's not what he said. Some companies - like google - have a very objective hiring process based almost entirely on technical skill. But many other companies include "fit" as a part of the hiring decision. I haven't interviewed at twitter but I could believe they are like that. I've thumbed down candidates who did well on the technical part of the interview because I felt I wouldn't get along with them day to day. Not as extreme as "beautiful" people who are "ready to kick it", but more like arrogance or social awkwardness.
- fabienpenso 13y ago
  Thank you, that's exactly what I meant. I probably should improve that part of the article, and it could probably actually be removed. It was some sarcastic humor but in end, I never felt that visiting other companies. You do feel sometimes technical isn't enough, but at Twitter you could definitely feel you had to look good. And you could also feel how current employees were proud to be part of the adventure. Proud as being part of the topnotch Silicon Valley companies.
- throwaway011001 13y ago
  Has the tech sector really come to the point where coders/geeks can't even be socially awkward anymore? I thought coding was one profession where socially awkward geeks could make an honest living.
  - rhizome 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

drpancake 13y ago

Interesting read. Does anyone have recent experience in obtaining a Green Card? I'd be interested to know how long it takes on average, transitioning from an H1-B visa. >Mecca for Software Engineers, the only place in the World where the guy in front at Starbucks has big chance to be Software developer. I'm a iOS developer and I love software, but this was one of my main reasons for leaving SF.

enraged_camel 13y ago
It depends on a lot of factors. You can get an H1B and renew it once, and each period lasts 3 years. During your H1B, your company can sponsor your Green Card application, which in itself can take anywhere from 5 to 10 years - sometimes longer.
reeses 13y ago
It depends on the E status you can get. If you get sponsored for an E3, forget about it. With an E1 (say, you are the world expert in your field), you can have a green card very quickly. E2 can take a year or two. The other course, depending on your country of citizenship, is asylum, which enables you to skip the queue and apply for your green card after a year. However, fraud is a big issue and you will eventually get slammed.
- arkem 13y ago
  I think you mean EB status not E status, which refers to the priority level of the green card application. I was really confused because an E3 is a visa very similar to a H1-B for Australians and an E1 is a visa for traders from countries that the US has a free trade agreement with.
  - reeses 13y ago
    YES! Early morning brain fart? :-) Thanks for clarifying that.
jtarrio 13y ago
Depending on your educational background and working experience, you go into one or another category. Most people here will fit in EB-3, EB-2 and EB-1. If you are in EB-1 you can get it in about a year; in EB-2 you can get it in two years unless you're from China or India; in EB-3 you can probably get it in seven years, unless you're from India.

jmduke 13y ago

To be honest, this makes me want to get a job in Paris. The way Fabien describes SF as a Mecca evokes the sense of wonder Woody Allen had about the City of Love: You know, I sometimes think, how is anyone ever gonna come up with a book, or a painting, or a symphony, or a sculpture that can compete with a great city. You can't. Because you look around and every street, every boulevard, is its own special art form and when you think that in the cold, violent, meaningless universe that Paris exists, these lights, I mean come on, there's nothing happening on Jupiter or Neptune, but from way out in space you can see these lights, the cafés, people drinking and singing. For all we know, Paris is the hottest spot in the universe. There's something nice about being in a city where everyone is one the same wavelength, but I think there's something more romantic about being holed up in a Parisian apartment that's stood the trial of centuries, committing to GitHub with the Eiffel Tower in the window (physical or otherwise) and such tremendous history all around you.

zerr 13y ago
... in a 18 sq.m. "apartment".
- nraynaud 13y ago
  I was sharing a 60sqm apartment with a couple there. (13th)
- rhizome 13y ago
  To be sure, apartments tend to be smaller when and where more activity occurs outside in common spaces.
fabienpenso 13y ago
I do love the lifestyle we have in Paris, I think anyone being able to spend a year there should feel very fortunate. Of course French might not agree, but traveling months per year the recents years, I'm always happy to come back.
- Gepsens 13y ago

alloftheabove 13y ago

Where do these salary numbers come from?

JoeKM 13y ago
I have to agree, 150k for senior engineer? I would say 100-120k for senior engineer, 75-100k for engineer, 50-60k for intern.
- jcdavis 13y ago
  For the Bay Area these days, those numbers seem about right. Big companies pay 100k to new grads
  - kevintoaster 13y ago
    Seconded. Engineering salaries have jumped significantly recently. With 2 years experience out of college I've seen people getting offers of 120k - 140k.
- cxx 13y ago
  Is there only a 20% difference between someone with 5-10 years of experience and someone straight out of college??
  - textminer 13y ago
    For the long-term career-conscious and money-hungry, it almost makes you want to plan a trajectory that doesn't plateau at "senior engineer". That seems like a shame/misuse of resources, doesn't it?
- solarmist 13y ago
  I'm in my first midlevel engineering position and including my year end bonus I make about 125k and this was the salary they offered me. My asking price was below what they offered.
- bdcravens 13y ago

ericdykstra 13y ago

As a junior web developer currently looking for my first full-time job programming in San Francisco, this all rings very true, and is a great summary of the job-hunting experience in the city. In my experience, referrals helped more than in the original poster's experience. Usually a referral skips me ahead to step 3 in the process (as laid out in the post).

guiomie 13y ago

I read this blog post with a french accent in my head.

danbmil99 13y ago

> But being rejected by a team because you’re not a fit doesn’t mean you can’t try another within the same company, if the company is big enough (Apple, Google, etc). Google's teams don't hire; Google hires (teams aren't even able to influence the process, by design) -- then you get placed on a team.

mik3y 13y ago
> Google's teams don't hire; Google hires (teams aren't even able to influence the process, by design) Not quite. While the generic SWE / new grad process is close to what you describe, individual teams and managers regularly exert a non-zero amount of influence: in screening and routing candidates, recommending the interview slate, getting the packet to hiring committee, and bidding on a candidate once an offer is made. It's also common for more specialized groups (such as Platforms) to have their own HC.

greghinch 13y ago

"French will note US companies don’t pay much tax on salaries like they do in France, what could make you think is a lot of money isn’t. Your French salary costs 40% extra to your company, but not in San Francisco." Not really the case. Taxes + benefits can easily add up to that much. General rule is it costs 150% of a salary to employ someone in the US. Much of what might be lumped into taxes in other countries is just paid for separately (such as healthcare), but the overall cost of the employee sounds like its about equal.

rodrigoavie 13y ago

What's wrong with Parisians?

plopper 13y ago
Basically, they were hipsters before it was cool.

pimeys 13y ago

I don't buy this. For me, the biggest problem in SF is that it is in US. Ever when I'm in that country I feel like I'm home. The politics, the crooked police, the expensive life... I don't want to be part of it. I really love Europe. This is my home continent with different countries and different people. I love to write code and I can get a pretty decent life also in Berlin. The weather is not so nice, but the city atmosphere really feels welcoming. And not all interesting challenges are in SF, believe me.

RDeckard 13y ago
Know that feel. I am from Canada (which is probably closer to US culturally than Europe) and having been here for 5 years, I am really really home sick...

nchuhoai 13y ago

What is the most important thing and what the article pointed out greatly is the need for the green card, without it, your life becomes incredibly dependent on your employer (unless you remain flexible). I'm going to college in the US, but am from Germany, and what makes me reluctant to plan a future in the US, is the requirement for me to bind myself to a company for in worst case 10+ years to have the certainty that I can stay in the US, should I chose not wanting to be employed. Aiming to be a freelancer or entrepreneur becomes next to impossible if you want to stay in the US without a green card. At least to my knowledge, I'd be happy to be wrong in this case.