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So wide of the mark that I almost feel faint. Selected highlights: > This cult is insidious. Its two main tenant are: 1. The designer is always right. 2. If yo
by georgespencer 13y ago
So wide of the mark that I almost feel faint. Selected highlights:
> This cult is insidious. Its two main tenant are: 1. The designer is always right. 2. If you don’t like what the designer is doing, you’re wrong, and you should go somewhere else. Doesn’t sound very friendly, does it?
1. Couple of fallacies here: you've set up a scenario in which your conclusion is supported (gosh, that doesn't sound friendly! This guy's a genius!), but it's also ignoratio elenchi: it doesn't fucking matter whether it's friendly or not, because who gives a shit whether the philosophy by which you design a product is friendly or not? It's like asking whether the philosophy is crunchy or gooey.
2. I would argue that if the designer is doing their job properly and working with and for users, then they will be usually right, and if you don't like it, you're wrong, and you should go somewhere else (because you're probably a neckbearded engineer trying to design something with zero user empathy).
> Steve Jobs made a zillion bucks cramming his design decisions down peoples’ throats.
1. In the same way as any designer, living or dead, who has shipped something to consumers, was "cramming [their] design decisions down peoples' throats."
2. In addition to the hugely biased language used, it's a gross oversimplification of design at Apple. A good example of Steve Jobs designing something is the iDVD anecdote. The iDVD team spend weeks working on a user interface that they think works. Jobs comes into the meeting, stops them halfway through, ignores their complicated workflows, and draws a simple rectangle which has a single "BURN" button on it. His great skill wasn't design, but editing and empathy.
> and now one of its founders spends his days custom-building and racing F1 cars.
Just another casual misrepresentation. DHH has not retired and is still working hard at 37signals.
> They did all this by being design dictators.
Yes. Forget the brilliant engineering, marketing, thought leadership, branding, etc. It was this cult thing you've conjured out of nowhere.
> Steve Jobs had a vision, and if you didn’t like his vision, you could go home.
Yes. But a vision is nothing to do with design. Example: Steve Jobs had the vision for MobileMe/iCloud. The vision was a cloud-based software product that allowed you to synchronise your devices and keep data across all of them. The design is terrible. Design being architecture and the implementation. Vision != design.
And what do you mean by "go home"? Isn't the same true of any product? If you don't like Android you can "go home". If you don't like Ferrari you can "go home". With "go home" you're implying that the consumer loses out. In reality because there IS ONLY ONE WAY A PRODUCT CAN POSSIBLY WORK, you're criticising them for not disrupting the space time continuum in order to offer two different products so you can not like Steve Jobs' vision and still like Steve Jobs' vision. Fuck me.
> 37 Signals made its products like it wanted to, and if you didn’t like it, you could suck it.
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I'm giving up on the rest.
- acabal 13y ago> The iDVD team spend weeks working on a user interface that they think works. Jobs comes into the meeting, stops them halfway through, ignores their complicated workflows, and draws a simple rectangle which has a single "BURN" button on it. His great skill wasn't design, but editing and empathy. That's not editing, that's literally throwing everything away and forcing his vision on them. Precisely what I'm talking about. And "empathy" is not a word I'd use to describe Steve Jobs, who by all accounts was a terrible jerk. > Design being architecture and the implementation. Vision != design. Maybe a better title for this post would have been, "The cult of product leader dictatorship." When I wrote design, I didn't mean industrial design or UI design, but product design and leadership. My fault for being unclear. > WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? On reading this post again 6 months after I wrote it, those are indeed strong words that don't really reflect 37 Signal's attitude. My words, not theirs.
- georgespencer 13y ago> That's not editing, that's literally throwing everything away Throwing stuff away is editing. Sigh. > and forcing his vision on them. Precisely what I'm talking about. 1. His vision was "a simple experience for the user". iDVD didn't end up with a simple rectangle and a single button marked "Burn". He refocused his teams around simplicity and ease of use. 2. I note that you've avoided responding to the other parts of my response in which I inquire as to whether you believe all designers in history are "forcing" their "vision" on others. > And "empathy" is not a word I'd use to describe Steve Jobs, who by all accounts was a terrible jerk. Product design is all about empathy with users. Steve Jobs was blessed with that in abundance. If you attribute Apple's success to his vision and design, then you have to acknowledge that users love their hardware and software. Jobs was great at cutting through bullshit and getting himself, his team, his engineers and designers -- who are all highly technical 'power users' -- to be humble and remove themselves from the equation and build something for mass consumption.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- joe_the_user 13y ago