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Soylent Campaign

• Afforess 13y ago
  Looking forward to this. There has been a lot of FUD, and I think some of it is valid, so I'm choosing the 1 week supply option to give it a try. I'd like to replace 1 of my meals each day with this, I hate having to deal with cooking and cleaning up in small temporary apartments.
  • DanBC 13y ago
    I hope you enjoy it! It'd be interesting to hear how you get on. If you decide you don't like soylent there are a bunch of other products from other more mainstream manufacturers. Fortisip and Ensure are the two brands I'm most familiar with, but there are others. Fortisip do wide range of different style products (shake, juice, yoghurt, and 'savory'.) But it's an acquired taste. I'm not sure why they have two trailing slashes. (https://www.nutricia.co.uk/fortisip// https://www.nutricia.co.uk/fortisip//) (http://ensure.com/ http://ensure.com/)
    • rosser 13y ago
      You might want to avoid Ensure. In a test where it was used in place of the standard glucose solution for an oral glucose tolerance test, it caused 2 hour blood glucose levels over 180 mg/dl in some subjects. Sure, it's marketed as having a low glycemic index — but the GI of chocolate cake and ice cream is even lower...
  • obviouslygreen 13y ago
    Be very, very careful. Ideally, if you can afford it, have a doctor evaluate your health (particularly blood chemistry) before and then after a few weeks. Not only would it be useful to you, it'd be informative to everyone considering this.
    • justincormack 13y ago
      But for the soylent product there is no need as it is perfect for all people. Yeah right. And why the dystopic branding?
• mscottmcbee 13y ago
  I've been following this for a while, and I'm excited to see it start to come together. I hope a lot of people aren't turned off by this pseudo Kickstarter, and wonder why Kickstarter turned them down in the first place.
  • drharris 13y ago
    I imagine Kickstarter turned them down because of potential liability if something goes wrong. Replacing food with chemicals makes sense to scientists and engineers, but I imagine this has the potential to be lawsuit-heavy for the average people out there (my back aches, must be the Soylent). Edit: specifically, these two guidelines: - Projects cannot offer financial, medical, or health advice. - No tobacco, drugs, and drug paraphernalia; energy food and drinks; or nutritional supplements.
    • jonathanjaeger 13y ago
      Kickstarter is for creative projects with a finite ending point. For example, you can't launch a website and raise funds on Kickstarter so you can pay engineers -- it needs to be a concrete project, not "I want to start a company." The same is true for Soylent, it isn't framed as a project.
  • machinshin_ 13y ago
    The campaign's powered on the open-source Crowdhoster platform, which is a Crowdtilt project. They recently wrote a blog post about updates to the platform: http://blog.crowdtilt.com/post/50939274192/updating-crowdhoster-building-accessible-open-source http://blog.crowdtilt.com/post/50939274192/updating-crowdhos...
• russelluresti 13y ago
  I've been following the Soylent articles since they were posted and have been pretty interested in it. Definitely going to have to give thought to backing this.
• Fuzzwah 13y ago
  www.soylent.me doesn't work. http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.soylent.me http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.soylent.me
  • johncoogan 13y ago
    Sorry about that. DNS record pointing to http://campaign.soylent.me http://campaign.soylent.me is caching. Should be live now.
• gcb0 13y ago
  Still doesn't answer how this is much different than just another kind of diet shake.
  • mc-lovin 13y ago
    It's a diet shake where the seller goes "you know what, fuck it, I don't recommend that you eat a balanced diet, and I do recommend you replace all your meals with this shake"
    • smacktoward 13y ago
      and "of course it's safe, I've been eating it for, like, months now"
      • jere 13y ago
        "And I've only noticed a single deficiency! So far."
    • Afforess 13y ago
      Really? He said he has replaced most meals, but I haven't seen where he recommends that strategy to others.
  • batgaijin 13y ago
    Most diet shakes aren't marketed as being fully nutritious. This has all the vitamins your body craves; as in I think you could eat this forever with no side effects, but that (to my knowledge) has never been tested with diet drinks (because they can claim that it's your responsibility to get the right nutrients).
    • gcb0 13y ago
      So, it's a diet shake where the company is liable? Man, i'm dying to be able to live on shakes (I already do, protein shakes and soluble fiber when i'm out of time) but claiming you can go on and on on just one food source for long periods of time without extensive testing is just irresponsible.
• gcb0 13y ago
  Anyone ever heard of the kickstarter clone they are using? http://www.crowdhoster.com/ http://www.crowdhoster.com/ it seems to just be a implementation of Selfstarter with a backend to process payments, but at the same time they boast "Free to use"... how can a payment processing be free?
  • gergles 13y ago
    It uses Crowdtilt to process payments, which takes 2.5%. Although the wording of the statement isn't crystal clear; they may charge the people wishing to contribute an extra 2.5%? Regardless, 2.5% gets skimmed off for payment processing. https://www.crowdtilt.com/learn/fees https://www.crowdtilt.com/learn/fees
• sp332 13y ago
  I got curious about this statement: 2 million people are killed annually by smoke inhalation from indoor cooking stoves alone. This is just wrong enough to be misleading, since that figure actually includes heating, not just cooking. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/ http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/ So soylent wouldn't help in the cases where indoor pollution is caused by heating.
  • volandovengo 13y ago
    Really?? From all the comments about this idea/execution/etc, this is what you chose to focus your attention on?!
    • marknutter 13y ago
      Welcome to Hacker News!
    • sp332 13y ago
      Yes, a claim that 0.2% of the world population dies every year from their own stoves caught my attention. The WHO report is striking to me, because that's a lot of people dying from causes they don't understand and don't see coming.
      • ModusPonies 13y ago
        0.02%, actually, but your point stands.
        • sp332 13y ago
          Ah man, I even double-checked and still messed up :p
    • trebor 13y ago
      It's a pretty important fact. If the creator is trying to justify the adoption of Soylent as a meal replacement by using this fact (obviously not by itself) then they need to be careful to use facts clearly. The phrasing in the pitch blames 2 million deaths upon indoor cooking, which is inaccurate.
• jere 13y ago
  >Soylent is perfectly balanced and optimized for your body and lifestyle, meaning it automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full, and improves your focus and cognition. Citation needed. I'm a big fan of n=1, but making these kinds of claims supported by anecdote and then asking for money based on those claims is ridiculous.
  • jckt 13y ago
    Also, the quotations from the early adopters...they could at least say who said those things, never mind whether or not they actually said them.
• ceejayoz 13y ago
  It's a pity no one on the team has any experience in a relevant field, and the "Is it safe?" answer is absurd. You could say the same thing to deem cigarettes safe.
  • gojomo 13y ago
    Indeed, the hand-waving and un-attributed testimonials are of the same class of support usually provided for ideas like Breatharianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breatharianism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breatharianism
  • volandovengo 13y ago
    Very true. They need a nuticionist on the team
    • ceejayoz 13y ago
      More than a nutritionist, they probably need a ten year double-blind study. "We tried it on ourselves for a few months" isn't long enough for some deficiencies to present themselves, lacks a control, and both the investigators and the test subjects are aware of what they're taking in.
    • breadbox 13y ago
      YM dietitian. A dietitian is someone with the relevant educational background, at least in the US. (The title of "nutritionist", in contrast, has no legal requirements, so they are perfectly free to call themselves nutritionists if they want to.)
  • Steko 13y ago
    Zero food scientists on staff but hey they have a COO, VP of Business Development/Sales and a CTO who does the website.
    • Duhck 13y ago
      By "does the website" you mean cloned https://github.com/lockitron/selfstarter https://github.com/lockitron/selfstarter and modified the copy?
• gojomo 13y ago
  I'm glad such eccentric projects are pursued – they're how progress happens – but it's still the case that... (a) Both the 1973 Charlton Heston movie and mixed, some-negative health connotations of the word 'soy' make the chosen name for the product problematic. (b) The argument for its safety – "We have been testing Soylent on ourselves for several months and the data shows it to have a positive nutritional benefit" – creates little confidence compared to thousands of years of alternate practice, and strong evidence the human system needs some variety/chaos for optimal health/resilience.
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• peteysd 13y ago
  The launch of this campaign is about a month and a half late. It would have been much more appropriate to launch on April 1st.
• deleted 13y ago
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  • fc2 13y ago
    The founder has been doing this for 4 months and he is healthier than when he started. What makes you think this is a bad idea other than "waaahh they are not food scientists!"?
    • w1ntermute 13y ago
      If you think that a sample of 1 is enough to validate the safety of this substance, then you need to just stop commenting on this article. You have absolutely no idea how science works.
      • fc2 13y ago
        It is not a "substance". This is basically a multivitamin mixed in with some fluor, some whey protein and some olive oil. You only need common sense to validate the safety.
        • DanBC 13y ago
          But that's the point - they claim it's safe for anyone; that it will correct cholesterol; that it's okay if you have problems with digestion; etc. You only need common sense to realise that this single product cannot be safe for everyone. What type of flour does it contain? They say it's hypo-allergenic, so it shouldn't have any gluten in.
        • scott_s 13y ago
          "Safe to consume along with a regular diet" is different than "safe to consume as your entire diet."
    • vecinu 13y ago
      Wow, 4 months really is a long time! I always thought drug companies were slow testing new drugs out for years! He is healthier than when he started? By what metric and for how long will that last?
• chollida1 13y ago
  I think the biggest issue I see here is that they are selling a dietary supplement and they don't have a licensed or even a trained nutritionist or doctor on their startup team. That's pretty scary to me. Who is the person who is certifying this as safe for meal replacement? Where is the clinical study that was done before this was released to people?
• bksenior 13y ago
  The founder needs a public speaking class. He talks like Dexter.
• DanBC 13y ago
  Some people said that it was only a matter of time before this person started charging money for this crank product, and I guess this proves them right. He's making a number of health claims on that page. I'm curious about the legality of doing so; it's not legal in the UK unless he meets some pretty strict criteria. > If not for this waste there would be plenty of food to adequately nourish everyone alive. Waste food is a serious problem and something needs to be done. I'm not sure there's a connection between food waste and world hunger. > 2 million people are killed annually by smoke inhalation from indoor cooking stoves alone This could be an interesting problem. Why do people use really inefficient dirty open fires to cook? Why aren't they using better stoves? It's not as if a stove requires huge amounts of resources.
  • jckt 13y ago
    They actually noted that "Unfortunately due to regulatory constraints, our initial runs of Soylent will be available within the United States only. We are diligently working to provide it worldwide as soon as possible." So indeed the UK won't be seeing this sold (legally) anytime soon. That said, I don't think it's really a case of whether or not Soylent is safe. Even if they have FDA approval, and produce Soylent under the strictest conditions of food safety, the real problem is their idea behind Soylent's use -- that it can replace a balanced diet. I'm sure it's safe to have it occasionally, if even a few portions of it everyday. But to virtually replace your diet? That's a bold claim, and with dangerous consequences at that.
  • mongol 13y ago
    Are the people that die from smoke inhalation going to buy and feed themselves on Solyent in the future? That is an interesting logistical problem, and if so, what would that logistical footprint mean for the environment? I think these arguments are ridiculous, no matter how good it is, unless it is opened, locally produced food will always be the best choice, environment-wise.
  • smacktoward 13y ago
    Yeah really. If that figure is incorrect, building a better cook stove would be an excellent place to apply some engineering know-how. Reinventing food is less so.
• mrleinad 13y ago
  Is crowdhoster trustworthy?
• xefer 13y ago
  The logo seems to be a benzene ring. When I see that I think "poison" not "health"
  • Udo 13y ago
    It could also be any other C6 ring. To me, it simply looks "organic" ;)
• christianrahn 13y ago
  I'm extremely interested in this...concept. But for someone trying to hack nutrition this way, you would think they would open the ingredients, or at least offer research sources. Knowing the contents of Soylent isn't going to stop anyone from buying it (convenience), but it would allow people to understand some of these bold claims.
  • Afforess 13y ago
    They have. Soylent Formula: http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424
• Xanza 13y ago
  I'm actually really pissed off at this product -- as with many, I've had both high hopes and reservations since the start of this whole ordeal. With me being a college student with a VERY limited budget I get very little nutrition that's needed for my body to operate normally. I was so turned on to this product because it was initially advertised to cost the creator between $50 and $100 per month. Now, all of a sudden it's going to cost me $230 just to get started. It's starting to sound more and more like a scam; I'm pretty livid.
  • dpcx 13y ago
    It's a $230 "backer", and you happen to get a months worth of the stuff as a prize. Same with all the Kickstarter stuff.
  • angkec 13y ago
    Yeah I remembered he claimed to be able to control the monthly cost for around $103 and I got pretty excited over that. Now I'm disappointed to see the price rose to $230. I guess it is time to really find out where my own mix went wrong: I feel the irresistible urge to eat a ton a few days after I'm on my own mix.
    • samatman 13y ago
      Don't forget the null hypothesis: you're feeling the urge to eat because we evolved to eat solids and you're not.
  • jgj 13y ago
    I'm not sure that the cost of a month's supply on this campaign is necessarily what it will ultimately cost in full production. The prices listed here, I assume, are what they think they need to charge to reach their 100k goal to enter mass production (based on how many people they expect will support the campaign). Ultimately they have a lot more costs than just the price of the ingredients, and their first run is likely to be more expensive than subsequent runs.
    • gwern 13y ago
• deathcakes 13y ago
  I can't help but feel that this is such an 'engineers' solution to something that isn't really a problem - whilst I agree that a cheap, reliable and efficient way to feed a lot of people is something that the world is sorely in need of, I can't understand why someone would opt for this through choice and not necessity. Which is nothing more than a failure of my imagination, of course, and I'm not seriously suggesting that anyone who does is defective in any way, but I feel like most of life's greatest pleasures come directly from the preparation and consumption of food. To want to get rid of these pleasures in the name of efficiency is a strange argument to my mind. I'm 100% behind the vat grown meat brigade on this one.
  • marknutter 13y ago
    For me one of life's greatest annoyances is the preparation and consumption of food, like 90% of the time I have to eat. To each their own, I guess.
    • jgj 13y ago
      Agreed. I'm a pretty good cook, but I can't stand doing it upwards of 99% of the time. I appreciate the shit out of a good meal, but I appreciate a mediocre meal that took me 0 effort to acquire much, much more than even the best meal that took me so much as 1 effort to acquire. Pour water into container and shake is about as low effort as I can imagine for a nutritionally complete meal, and if I die from liver failure after a month then I just wasn't meant to be.
• mjt0229 13y ago
  Although some of the lofty stated goals of this project seem commendable, this is one of the worst ideas I have heard in a long time. I can't tell if it's a joke, but I hope that it is.
• jonathanjaeger 13y ago
  Would be nice if you put nutrition facts on the campaign page. I wouldn't buy without seeing those. Here is what I found ("What's In Soylent?"): http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 The macronutrient breakdown based on calories per gram is 50% carbs, 13% protein, 37% fat, if I'm not mistaken. I'd rather have a bit more protein and a bit less fat, personally.
  • beefman 13y ago
    I still don't see an ingredients list. I believe one will be required to sell this in the U.S. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GuidanceRegulation/UCM265446.pdf http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GuidanceRegulation/UCM2654...
    • atdrummond 13y ago
      They'll also want to get their production facility cGMP certified, which is going to substantially raise short term prices in addition to those associated with FDA labeling procedures.
  • Ghostp4nts 13y ago
    You might "rather" have more protein and less fat but you have no clue if that is what you need. If they market the product as a dietary supplement, then they will not have to list nutrition facts and will be able to say this is a "Proprietary Blend". This is a very common practice among supplement companies and can be witnessed by going to your local GNC.
    • jonathanjaeger 13y ago
      Protein shakes and meal replacements almost always show the amount of protein/fat/carbs. Usually they reserve these "secretive" proprietary blends for creatine, NO3, caffeine, and similar muscle-building or preworkout supplements. I see what you're getting at it, and I agree they might not have to list it, I just think it would be nice to know and perhaps would increase trust. I'm in the same camp as the author, saying that people overestimate the harm of fat. I don't think I need 56 grams of fat in a serving of soylent, though. Let's assume I want to maintain my bodyweight and need about 2500-3000 calories to do so given the amount I exercise. Two servings of soylent will give me 1600 calories from carbs, 400 calories from protein, and 1008 calories from fat. Maybe that's fine, but maybe it's not ideal. I guess I'd like to know. I think it's a stretch to say I have no clue what I need. Maybe I don't know what I need to survive, in terms of a bare minimum, but I know what I need to maintain my weight in terms of calories.
• devonbarrett 13y ago
  Although I love the concept, backing a team that does not even have a single chemist or nutritionist in it is worrying.
• btbuildem 13y ago
  Yes, because a handful of smiley tech nerd kids know nutrition better than professional researchers with decades of experience, backed by hundreds of millions of dollars annually.
  • jimmar 13y ago
    I'd put more stock in nutrition researchers if their advice was remotely consistent from decade to decade.
    • jongraehl 13y ago
      Reversed stupidity is not intelligence.
    • alan_cx 13y ago
      Do you understand "research" at all? They study, they tell us what they find, they study more, and tell us new information, and keep going, getting better and more refined as they progress. More researchers test the claims, and prove it one way or another. If this isn't good enough for you, then at what point would information ever be good enough for you? Do you expect a time when knowledge is complete and set? You prefer the ideas of non researchers, people with no foundation in the subject or scientific methods? You prefer their advice? You might as well take your scientific facts from a bloke in a bar.
  • Afforess 13y ago
    Why not? Handfuls of smiley tech nerd kids think they know the web better than professional corporations with decades of experience, and are proven right all of the time.
    • btbuildem 13y ago
      Web, yes, nutrition -- hell no.
  • allenu 13y ago
    Hey, no need for scientific rigor here when you're crowdfunded and are operating a startup. Move fast and break things, right? In all seriousness, kudos to these kids and their ambitions. However, the software model of iterating fast doesn't always translate to the physical world, especially when it comes to items ingested by human beings. It's one thing to "pivot" on your Instagram clone, but taking some experimental goop that hasn't been rigorously tested with good unbiased science (not to mention with a sample size larger than one 24-year old) and deciding to market it is another thing--especially when none of your "team" are nutritionists by trade. There's a reason we have the FDA. I get that this is the "startup culture", but let's take a moment to realize the physical world doesn't allow us to recompile and try again very easily.
• hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
  I'm surprised this is even legal.
  • ceejayoz 13y ago
    Who says it is?
• brown9-2 13y ago
  Is it me or is the nutritional breakdown of the drink not listed anywhere?
  • Afforess 13y ago
    It is. Soylent Formula: http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424
• revelation 13y ago
  Do they really expect to market this without even listing whats in that thing? And why does not a single person in their team have any credentials in the area whatsoever?
• obibring 13y ago
  Assuming this product is made from Soy (ingredients aren't listed), I would caution any male from inducing it in large quantities.
  • fowkswe 13y ago
    The name has nothing to do with Soy, its a reference to a movie titled Soylent Green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green)
• ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Limited market appeal (folks who eat to live vs live to eat) and it lacks the credibility of a clinical study done under the supervision of folks who have the experience to evaluate the results. So in that way it is simply another "look, eating this probably won't kill you, at least not quickly." product. There are many of these introduced and produced every year. That said, to the extent that this guy can get traction for his effectively artificial food, the big food companies will watch it and talk about it. If there is something to it they might add their own toe in the water, or not. Most recently they have been hammered pretty publicly about how their manufactured food products aren't really much food (see "In Defense of Food" as an example of the narrative)
  • marknutter 13y ago
    In the end though, it's just food. I could launch a kickstarter campaign that sold veggie shakes and claim it makes people feel healthier when they drink them and it would be no more harmful than this campaign.
    • gamegoblin 13y ago
      I think that the difference is that Soylent aims to replace (or come close to replacing) one's entire diet.
      • marknutter 13y ago
        Nowhere do they recommend that you replace every single meal with Soylent and the creator stated many times throughout his many blog posts that he continued to eat normal meals whenever he felt like eating normal meals. This is in contrast to something like the movie Fat Sick and Nearly Dead (http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/ http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/) which actually does recommend drinking veggie shakes exclusively for every meal for 90 days.
        • jckt 13y ago
          Well their "Rewards" section is slightly misleading then. For $230, you can get "One Month's Supply of Soylent We'll ship enough Soylent to fully replace one month's worth of meals. Shipping included."
• papa_bear 13y ago
  This is kind of what I wanted to accomplish by building Eat This Much[1], ideally making eating and staying healthy at the same time less of a chore. I'm really on board with the idea, but what got me interested was the notion that it would be easy to adjust the formula to my needs, e.g. choose a different ratio of various powders if I want to gain weight, lose weight, or compensate for some genetic difference. [1] http://www.eatthismuch.com http://www.eatthismuch.com
  • toomuchtodo 13y ago
    Eat This Much subscriber here. Thanks for the awesome product/service.
• petercooper 13y ago
  I hope they eventually state all of the potential allergens that are in this. As I've gotten older I've become very sensitive to various foods (especially anything with lactose in it) and this sort of thing appeals to me, but if it had lactose in it, say, it could be.. interesting ;-) Ditto for people with peanut allergies and the like.
  • atdrummond 13y ago
    I wouldn't count on them providing an exhaustive list. They already claim Soylent is allergen free, despite using whey protein. Yet beta-lactoglobulin is a well known allergen present in whey protein.
• MyNewAccount99 13y ago
  is this a joke? video was funny.
• angkec 13y ago
  It's interesting to see everything went from supportive on soylent to very negative after they published this campaign. I wonder what has changed?
  • DanBC 13y ago
    What?? Some people have been negative about soylent from the very first posts.
  • mongol 13y ago
    It changed from one guy experimenting with his own body and blogging about it to making a sales pitch with ridiculous claims that have no backing.
  • wch 13y ago
    Experimenting on yourself with replacing food with shakes is one thing. I find that an interesting project, and I'm sure many others did as well. On the other hand, selling this stuff with claims like, "Soylent is perfectly balanced and optimized for your body and lifestyle, meaning it automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full, and improves your focus and cognition," is another thing completely. It sounds like a total scam, especially since they don't even say what's in it.
  • dragonwriter 13y ago
    > It's interesting to see everything went from supportive on soylent to very negative after they published this campaign. I wonder what has changed? There's a pretty big difference between "I'm trying this new nutritional approach out for myself" and "without any serious testing, I am trying to get investors to sell this nutritional approach to the public". I suspect the difference you observe in responses is tied to the that difference.
  • chourobin 13y ago
    If the founder came out and said, "look ive been trying this for months and its great.. now you can try it with me...", that would be fine. But I agree that some of these claims are too much for something that is so unproven.
• typicalrunt 13y ago
  Is soylent vegan available yet? Not yet. This first run will be the regular vegetarian soylent, but it is lactose free, kosher, halal, and absent of all known allergens I believe soy is an allergy to some people. What does "absent of all known allergens" mean then?
  • crististm 13y ago
    Then it must be the green flavor.
  • smacktoward 13y ago
    It means "we haven't really looked into that too hard."
  • Judson 13y ago
    They use a whey protein - I don't believe the formula contains soy.
    • steveklabnik 13y ago
      Doesn't whey protein contain lactose?
      • Judson 13y ago
        There are two types of Whey protein, concentrate and isolate. Whey protein isolate is a more "pure" form or whey protein that does not contain lactose. Whey concentrate is cheaper, but does contain some lactose. The site mentions that the formula is lactose free, so I imagine they are using Whey Isolate.
        • steveklabnik 13y ago
          Gotcha. Thank you.
      • jckt 13y ago
        Lactose intolerance is not an allergy to lactose. Most people are actually lactose-intolerant -- in most of history people around the world simply had no need to drink milk after the toddler stage, and those who are truly lactose-tolerant tend to be of Nordic/Scandinavian ancestry, IIRC. Those who are labelled lactose-intolerant (though that itself is a spectrum) can handle a pint of milk a day.
• nemof 13y ago
  If any of you are foolhardy enough to try this stuff, please please please get your physician to do a full workup before, and do regular repeat checkups.
• chasing 13y ago
  "Soylent is perfectly balanced and optimized for your body and lifestyle, meaning it automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full, and improves your focus and cognition." Bull-fucking-shit. This is a product made by four twenty-somethings, none of whom appears to have a background in nutrition or any kind of health studies. To trust your health to these people would be fucking stupid. Jesus. Also: They've got to be violating some kind of FDA rules. So that'll be fun. When they get sued. Or accidentally harm someone. Please. Do not back these people. ----- Edit: What FDA rule do I think they're violating? I don't know, exactly. But I doubt you can say things like "it automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full, and improves your focus and cognition" without having some actual data backing you up.
  • fc2 13y ago
    "They don't have a background in nutrition therefore they can't possibly know anything about nutrition" Never heard of books and the internet?
  • jerrytsai 13y ago
    I am skeptical of Soylent, but I also think that interesting ideas-- backed by at least some science-- are worth examining. That being said, health claims such as the ones you cite-- "it automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full, and improves your focus and cognition"-- fall into the realm of regulated speech. You shouldn't be making claims like these without well-controlled clinical trials to back them up. The sellers of Soylent will need to hire legal counsel before long...
  • Afforess 13y ago
    Wow, it's like the "Hacker News Is Depressing" Article didn't happen. I trust the Soylent folks more than I trust myself purchasing frozen meals in a grocery store. It's hard to be worse than that benchmark.
    • jckt 13y ago
      Are we not allowed to criticise anymore? Chasing makes a good point. They simply stated several claims, and didn't even attempt to substantiate them at all.
• NickM 13y ago
  This would possibly interest me, but including nootropics without listing them seems incredibly scary. It's one thing to include all the normal vitamins and minerals your body needs, but to take it a step further and include mind-altering substances seems absurd and questionably legal. Maybe by "nootropics" they just mean everyday vitamins that have been shown to benefit your brain, but that's certainly not what I think of when I hear that term. Then again, maybe there's somewhere online where they actually list what they're using, but I couldn't find any details on the campaign page.
  • beefman 13y ago
    Nope, one of the blog posts mentioned actual nootropics. They're playing pretty fast and loose with the ingredients. If they're still experimenting (as it seems they are), they should say so.
  • jeffasinger 13y ago
    This is a blog post by the creator that has a little detail on it: http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424
• jckt 13y ago
  This is an interesting parallel to another article on the front-page right now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5743419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5743419
• crusso 13y ago
  This went from "interesting self-hacking experiment worth watching" to " train wreck of a health and liability hazard" in a fairly short time. Not good.
• TheCoelacanth 13y ago
  I get that the name "Soylent" was originally coined in a book that did not involve cannibalism in any way, but it still seems like a very bad choice of name. "Soylent green is people" is much more well known than any allusion to Make Room! Make Room! can possibly be.
• iandanforth 13y ago
  I really enjoy this campaign because it gave me an excuse to compare it with snake oil labels. (https://www.google.com/search?q=snake+oil+label&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=6MibUZmmBam9ygHBn4HoAQ&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1440&bih=726 https://www.google.com/search?q=snake+oil+label&tbm=isch...) The characteristic of this kind of marketing that I enjoy the most is the presence of what I call 'linguistic asymptotes.' These are words that imply a product has unparalleled or infinite properties. On the soylent page we have "ubiquitous", "perfectly", "optimized", "automatically", and "optimal" all in the first paragraph. On a sample of snake oil labels we have 'instantaneously', 'cures all aches and pains', 'always', 'strongest', and 'immediate.' It's very difficult for a claim that contains a linguistic asymptote to be true, but it's cognitively very easy to understand and process. You don't have to consider your personal medical history, or cost, or anything else really, because the product is 'always' right for you! Fun stuff.
  • vecinu 13y ago
    That's a very good point and very observant. I too am highly skeptical of ALL of these claims. My main gripe with Soylent (ever since I first saw it here on HN a month ago) is that they are making cooking seem like a horrible chore that nobody wants to do. Shopping is convenient because I go whenever I have time and only buy exactly what I need. At the same time, I also ensure I only buy the best ingredients I can at the moment (Assuming labeling is correct). A lot of people I know and myself included, LOVE to cook. I love cutting a bell pepper and catching a whiff of its fresh smell in my nostrils. I love sometimes adding different sauces, spices or ingredients in my meals to give them a distinct and unique taste. And cleaning up is also fun because I recognize I am a responsible adult, able to revert something back to the state I received it in. Just like my bed, or a rental car or my home.
    • katbyte 13y ago
      As much as i love cooking, there are times where i would love something that is quick and healthy. not to say soylent is that, just that it would be nice.
      • 13y ago
• niico 13y ago
  "We have been testing Soylent on ourselves for several months and the data shows it to have a positive nutritional benefit." No shit. Seriously, who is going to try this powder made by this twenty-somethings guys with no background in any kind of health nor nutrition studies. It reminds me to the Power Balance scam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Balance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Balance
  • josscrowcroft 13y ago
    Apparently 1,016 backers, with $130,000 kicking about, at last count.
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• nemo1618 13y ago
  I think HN's hatred of Soylent has been increasing exponentially as we get closer to a mass-market release. What's with all the negativity? If you don't like it, don't buy it -- easy as that. It may not be the perfect product, but at least it's pushing some boundaries. I, for one, am excited to get my hands on a batch and let the results speak for themselves.
  • mongol 13y ago
    Hacker News would be very quiet if no-one commented and everybody made their purchasing decisions in quiet. This is a controversial diet, it is not clear if it is viable food replacement and it can affect your health, especially what are the effects long-term? Their page pitches environmental concerns, and I find that ridiculous. Are they serious that they aim for Soylent to be a large part of what people eat globally in the future?
  • WiseWeasel 13y ago
    Maybe the fact their branding and marketing copy is a paragon of hyperbole and ambiguity could have something to do with a hostile reception on a site with a relatively marketing- and logic-savvy readership. I'd be hard-pressed to come up with more dystopian PR than this, to the point where you have to wonder if it's satire. I wouldn't even consider ingesting this mystery powder, even if they paid me.
  • DanBC 13y ago
    What boundaries is it pushing? Liquid feed is not new.
    • dgabriel 13y ago
      Right? Medifast. Optifast. Slimfast. There are literally thousands of options.
• mongol 13y ago
  Is Soylent better for me than carrot juice, oatmeal and eggs? Now I just chose three random foodstuffs, but at least I know what they are and what they contain.
  • jimmar 13y ago
    Part of the appeal of Soylent is that you don't have to juice the carrots, cook the oatmeal, or scramble the eggs.
• eof 13y ago
  Without going on with the almost certainly absurd claim you can be perfectly healthy, indefinitely, eating one shake.. There does seem to be a lot of interest, I think mostly from people interested in the saving of time and still getting good nutrition. To those people, I highly recommend green protein smoothies. They aren't cheap, really, but they are fast and done right they taste good and will take an otherwise mediocre diet to better than 99% of people without much other change (I am not a doctor, just an observer). Some fruit, some leafy greens, some nuts, optionally some protein powder (my favorite had been pea protein, but my nutritionist recommended alternating protein sources every few weeks of doing it regularly). Adding in some thing like vitamineral green and you are really doing alright. Spending about 3-400 USD on a good blender and you can have an über healthy, delicious meal replacement in minutes with about 30 seconds of clean up. A mediocre blender still make the experience less enjoyable when using nuts and tough greens like kale. Expect an 800 calorie shake to cost maybe 3-5 bucks to put together depending on your tastes, whether you go organic, and access to produce.
  • scottjad 13y ago
    My favorite green smoothie (lacks protein, I'll have to try the pea protein): 2 large handfuls of fresh spinach or kale, 1 apple or 6 strawberries, 1 banana, 1 tbsp ground flaxseed, 1 large handful of ice, 1-2 cups of water, 1/4 cup unsweetened almond milk I prefer to drink it with a straw.
    • zeroexzeroone 13y ago
      Damn that sounds good - completely natural - save for possibly the emulsifiers in the almond milk.
      • jimmar 13y ago
        Replace almond milk with almonds & water. Blend well.
  • antihero 13y ago
    What would you suggest as an alternative to nuts, for those of us who cannot eat nuts?
• tocomment 13y ago
  Ever since I heard about this project I've been trying to make my own version. I've found it's surprisingly hard to make something healthy that doesn't make me gag. So far I tried egg protein powder mixed with chia seeds, olive oil, plain yogurt and a banana. I'm now thinking I'd be better off with something solid that I could eat on the go. I haven't seen a good recipe though.
  • DanBC 13y ago
    Why don't you try the existing liquid feeds?
    • tocomment 13y ago
      I like the idea of gettin more olive oil in my diet. Also the existing ones have too many carbs and aren't filling.
• jstalin 13y ago
  Is it just me, or can you barely hear the guys on the video? They need a microphone.
• pron 13y ago
  Guys, please don't do this. We've met at YC, and I think you are great guys, but some things in the video are false. Soylent is definitely not "perfectly tailored to your body" and it probably isn't "everything the body needs", for the simple reason that nobody has any idea what the body needs, let alone how to tailor a perfect diet. Nutrition research is extremely complex and fraught with false findings. When John Ioannidis said that most medical research findings are false he singled out nutrition and genetics as the most problematic fields. False advertising this particular product can be dangerous because a lot of people get obsessed about diet and health, and tend to cling to whatever subset of findings they happen to have heard, and then treat the whole thing religiously. Some nutritional deficiencies become apparent only after years and then possibly only in people with a certain genetic makeup. You are targeting a population that adopts health fads like they were the ten commandments, and are trying to sell a product that has properties you can't possibly know. Please stop because you may inadvertently hurt people.
  • wldlyinaccurate 13y ago
    I'll admit that I'm very interested in Soylent, and I'd like to try it myself. But I completely agree with you on this. Soylent is the sort of thing that could seriously damage your health. I know that several people have trialled it over the course of a few months, but nutritional deficiencies can take much longer to develop. For example I don't recall ever reading that oral health was being monitored during the trials - when you're not chewing anything, your teeth will fall out. I'm sorry but I truly do believe that selling Soylent would be dangerous and irresponsible. Please, don't sell Soylent to anybody until you've done some proper clinical trials.
• shurcooL 13y ago
  I really hope they're able to ship to Canada soon. :( I just donated $50 to the cause until then. I believe in the general cause so much, that even if there's only 1% something good will come out of this particular project, I'll happily take that chance.
  • caublestone 13y ago
    Thank You So Much! We will work to get it across the border asap.
• herbivore 13y ago
  "The future of food"? Boy this is depressing. Man-made lab food and they think this is how the future should look? How about ending factory farming and just going back to eating plant based foods that's not made up in that lab somewhere. Wow what a f*cked up concept.
• iagomr 13y ago
  You guys are f* crazy. This has a place in the world because many people don't know how to eat or don't even know what is good food. Free piece of advice: Move to a southern country and spend less money in health treatments
• ericcumbee 13y ago
  is it people?
  • mattip 13y ago
    My thought exactly the choice of name is suspicious, and lack of ingredients even more so. Is this all a joke?
• Duhck 13y ago
  I truly hope this is successful, not in the sense that these guys monetize it and become millionaires, but that the world in general does need a way to supplement our diets in a more sustainable way. What irks me though, is the lack of a true clinical trial. This fundraising effort is for the supplement itself when it really should be for clinical trials to prove the stuff is safe and works. Perhaps they are scared of the results, or perhaps they really believe in their product, either way this is in the wrong direction and people COULD get hurt.
• mdisraeli 13y ago
  I believe that Soylent uses Whey protein, because of common allergies to Soy protein... which is amusing, since an intolerance to milk protein runs in my family, and appears to be quite common too. In fact, an extremely common request of clinical nutritionists is for a non-diary product, especially for ones aimed at children. I strongly urge Soylent to try and gain the help of someone with experience within the established industry and get their assistance. Whilst us hackers might be happy to take the risk at this stage, someone with industry experience and knowledge of product development and production would bring invaluable skill. Plus, they'd be best placed to answer any questions about FDA issues, etc Disclaimer: I have a family member who works in this field
• tghw 13y ago
  Oh good, it has antioxidants! Which have been shown to actually increase mortality slightly when given to healthy people[1]. I really like the idea, but until they apply some real science to it, I'll pass. [1] http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD007176/antioxidant-supplements-for-prevention-of-mortality-in-healthy-participants-and-patients-with-various-diseases http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD007176/antioxidant-supplemen...
  • jere 13y ago
    Yea, it's rather silly to claim that Soylent contains no toxins. It's been suggested that the positive effects of antioxidants may arise through hormesis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant#Pro-oxidant_activities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant#Pro-oxidant_activit...
• steveklabnik 13y ago
  > vegan I don't even really believe soylent is legit, but it's interesting enough to plunk down money for. However, this is kinda a deal-breaker. How exactly is Soylent currently not vegan? EDIT: Re-reading http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 , it's implied that this uses whey protein. I've used hemp protein rather than whey before. Also, it'd be green then. ;)
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• adnam 13y ago
  'Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.' If only this genius and effort behind 'soylent' were put to good use.
• supes 13y ago
  Feels like they are jumping the gun in terms of saying this could help with malnutrition in developing countries. Starving and malnutrished people can't just drink a meal replacement shake and be fine, especially kids. There are many other factors that must be taken into consideration. For example see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpy%27nut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpy%27nut . I saw this on 60 minutes a few years back. "Plumpy'nut is a peanut-based paste in a plastic wrapper for treatment of severe acute malnutrition... They are also relatively high in calories, which means that a patient receives a lot of nutrition from small amounts, important because malnutrition shrinks the stomach."
• gojomo 13y ago
  Per "Poe's Law", I would not rule out the idea that this is an extended prank/art-project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
  • d23 13y ago
    There is no doubt this is. The "irrational" improvements to 3.14 (read: pi), the ridiculous name, the complete lack of evidence -- all point to obvious parody.
  • cpeterso 13y ago
    Like "Hufu", the healthy human flesh alternative for cannibals who want to quit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hufu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hufu
• create_account 13y ago
  While their high level goals (eliminate hunger, reduce stress on agricultural and environmental resources) are laudable, this project suffers from the same arrogance of doctors in the 1960s who said mother's milk was primitive and could be replaced by artificial formula. Now, in hindsight, we know what a mistake that was, as natural breast milk contained compounds which decreased various cancer and health risks. I cannot help but think they are going down the same road.
  • jongraehl 13y ago
    I for one will be sticking to breast milk.
  • minimize_me 13y ago
    Those doctors were probably on the Nestle payroll, after the money from Camel dried up.
• hapkins 13y ago
  Out of curiosity, if Soylent really does provide every nutrient the body requires, would that mean a user would no longer have to defecate? My reasoning is if every nutrient is absorbed and used, there is no physical waste left, and all toxins and byproducts would be expelled through urine.
  • atdrummond 13y ago
    Having done pure liquid diets (with significantly reduced caloric loads) on numerous occasions (not by choice, unlike these fellows) this is mostly true. One will typically see bowel movement frequency drop dramatically, although not entirely to zero in my case. That said, I am missing a significant length of digestive tract, so my experience may be atypical. I would also note that that as calories increase, to or above your metabolic needs, that this effect would likely diminish.
• superkamiguru 13y ago
  I had a feeling this wouldn't hit Kickstarter.
  • jimmar 13y ago
    They tried to get on Kickstarter. Kickstarter didn't want them because Soylent is not a "creative" product.
• mindstab 13y ago
  Personally as a 20 something first worlder earning decent money in tech I am interested in this. So part of me wishes they'd kept the advertising focused on that. Because claiming to be able to tackle world hunger with this "long shelf life, easy to prepare, and efficient no waste" product is disingenuous unless they plan on lowering prices > 10x the listed kickstarter rewards. I'm sorry white kids of America but world hunger is a little more complicated than just waiting for you to come along with a powder. Your product will not end subsistence farming. You want to know why? Take a look outside and around for a change, travel, or read for a MINUTE: as pointed out elsewhere "Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day"[1] ($17.50 / week). Your $65/week product... not going to even register for them. So good luck, I mean it, I'm interested in this product because I kind of eat out too much and not well, and this can be a good product, but maybe reign in the marketing kids because it's sounding nearly offensively naive when you start talking about ending world hunger with this rich kids product for food. [1] http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-sta...
  • nawitus 13y ago
    The linked article states that the price will go down as production scales. Besides, ingredients tend to be cheaper (in dollars) in poorer countries.
    • vecinu 13y ago
      So it's going to be manufactured in every single country it's sold? What other products do this?
      • pbreit 13y ago
        Pretty much all food products.
• raddoc 13y ago
  As a physician with a degree in biochemistry, I am no expert but will throw in a few thoughts. 1) All foods are broken down into their respective molecular constituents (free fatty acids, glucose, amino acids, etc) through a series of enzymatic reactions. These nutrients are ultimately absorbed through the wall of the bowel or what remains passes as feces. This is true whether you are eating lettuce, ribs, a slice of bread, or this soylent product. 2) Frankly, I see no difference in this product from any other meal replacement powder available in bulk at any nutrition store. If we ever see a nutrition label, I suspect it will look strikingly similar to Slim Fast.
• tzs 13y ago
  If you want to see why this is a terrible idea if you care about your health, with plenty of cites to peer-reviewed science, read "In Defense of Food" by Michael Pollan.
  • taude 13y ago
    May as well put a Michael Pollan quote in here with some simple, sane ideas for eating: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."
  • papsosouid 13y ago
    That's a good book, but it doesn't give any reason to believe this is a "terrible idea" at all. Perhaps you should read it again.
• mindstab 13y ago
  Why was this flagged? 123pts at 2 hours should not place 39th?
• Eliezer 13y ago
  I'm in for $65, because I've run out of patience with everyone wisely nodding caution and not trying to solve the problem themselves. Like a lot of metabolically disadvantaged people, I feel betrayed and tossed off a cliff by a society that doesn't understand and doesn't care. You want to know how desperate we are? Read this: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35552 http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35... That's the next alternative if Soylent doesn't work. Now either offer a design for a better food replacement, or shut up and get out of the way.
  • GuiA 13y ago
    I'm confused by what you're trying to protest/demand. What's "metabolically disadvantaged"? Are you suffering from a medical condition for which no satisfactory diet (in the proper sense of the term) has been developed? I'm not sure I have all the background information necessary to properly understand all the intricacies of what the OP in the link you posted is describing; but it sounds like what he's going through is complex enough that it probably won't solved by something as straightforward as Soylent (which is basically "let's take everything current science says your body needs, and mash it all together in one solution"). Any light you can shed on this for the non-initiated would be appreciated :)
    • enraged_camel 13y ago
      >>What's "metabolically disadvantaged"? Are you suffering from a medical condition for which no satisfactory diet (in the proper sense of the term) has been developed? In the vast majority of cases, "metabolically disadvantaged" means "lazy and sedentary" without actually taking the responsibility for it. It's similar to blaming one's obesity on "genetics" or "body shape" or being "big-boned." (The last one is especially funny. Guess why your bones are big. It's because they have to carry all your fat!)
  • abstractbill 13y ago
    Hear hear. I resent having to frequently stop what I'm doing - what I'm really excited about - to spend time attending to the endless whining of my body. And I resent even more the things my body does if I don't give in and feed it perfectly every damn time (so far, gastric ulcers and frequent heartburn). Food currently sucks. It could be so much better. It could "just work". I'm also in for $65.
• legierski 13y ago
  It's a real bummer that they don't send it anywhere outside US
  • DanBC 13y ago
    Why? Liquid feeds are already available, and are made by regulated suppliers to a high quality.
• seivan 13y ago
  LCHF. http://www.kostdoktorn.se http://www.kostdoktorn.se or http://www.dietdoctor.com http://www.dietdoctor.com Eat till you are full. Normalise your weight.
• frozenport 13y ago
  This is poorly motivated: 1. I can make a Hot Pocket in about 3 minutes. While the microwave is running I can browse my email on my cellphone etc... 2. Some instant food is unhealthy, perhaps healthy instant food is market for disruption? 3. Are we living in a society where people can't stop for 3 minutes to grab a bite to eat!?
  • Afforess 13y ago
    1. If I eat a Hot Pocket every day I will shorten my lifespan considerably. 2. Healthy instant food tastes bland or like garbage. 3. Yes. I don't like it, but most of us don't have choices.
    • frozenport 13y ago
      You can't wait 3 minutes for the microwave!? Even if you can overlap microwaving with doing other things like reading HN on the ipod.(common threading paradigm). You don't have a choice for 3 minutes!
• loupeabody 13y ago
  I'm going to put $65 up for this as I've been eager to try Soylent since it first popped up on HN. Clearly this is a very controversial topic, but the general attitude for most of the supporters (myself included) appears to be that if no serious negative effects have been exposed from consuming Soylent in three months, it must be safe to try. Is there any possibility that consuming Soylent for a while (say, a week to a month) and then stopping cold-turkey could be significantly harmful to one's digestion? Maybe? I guess we'll find out when the first round of supplies is consumed. Another thing, props on the campaign and having already been funded, but let's hope the next promo video does less to seem like a run-of-the-mill infomercial... :\
• alex_c 13y ago
  I read this initially assuming it to be a clever spoof on the whole startup / crowdsourcing scene, because of the name: pick something that is obviously a joke product ("Soylent Green is people!") and run with it - start piling on impressive claims, include startup-y backgrounds for the founders, and be really vague about what the product actually is. Given my initial interpretation, I thought the "Is soylent vegan available yet" FAQ was particularly hilarious. Then I started reading the HN comments, and initially assumed them to be tongue-in-cheek replies running with the joke: the typical "this is why it won't work", the usual "this is why it's a bad idea", the inevitable "it's actually amazing, stop being so negative". But that gradually stopped making sense the further I read, with people appearing to take it way too seriously for a simple spoof. So thanks HN, you've managed to confuse me completely. This might be a sign I've been spending too much time here lately.
  • ellyagg 13y ago
    Yep, I thought it was a joke at first, too. Since the term soylent is widely understood to mean human remains masquerading as food, the name suggests pretense. He wrote: Before I rarely had enough energy to go to the gym, but this day I had plenty so I decided to put the diet to the test. I'd been running off and on for several months, never able to do more than a mile straight, but this day I ran 3.14 miles non-stop. This is an irrational improvement. !! Indeed, it does sound irrational, doesn't it? In fact, whether this is a hint or he's just being cute, I literally don't believe that Soylent caused this uptick in performance. Want to bet on the results of a double blind study? Elsewhere, he said he only needs 1/3 the calories on Soylent, which was explained away by an apologist in the comments as a figure of speech, or perhaps art of rhetoric, but that explanation is contradicted by his precise descriptions elsewhere and worrisome in this context regardless. There were more jokes like that, conveniently allowing its author to laugh at people no matter whether he's being truthful or not. Parts of the campaign are patronizing and condescending and they've shown no desire to fix that aspect, making me more leery due to the immaturity. Should I trust my health to such a cavalier attitude? I lean toward it being legit, but they've got a long ways to go to catch up with the cutting edge of understanding in nutrition science and it's not clear what advantage they'll be able to offer over established meal replacement drinks like Ensure, which most people don't want to drink today. Improved taste? You can get rats to overfeed to fatness on chocolate Ensure. Expertise? No. For personal use, Soylent Orange is more convenient, available today, and safer, IMO: http://lesswrong.com/lw/h2h/i_hate_preparing_food_my_solution/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/h2h/i_hate_preparing_food_my_solutio...
• nsxwolf 13y ago
  STILL sticking with that absolutely horrific name, I see? You should seriously give out DVDs of the film as rewards. How about a sleeping pill named Quietus[1]? [1] Children of Men reference, film version
  • Afforess 13y ago
    Horrible? Try genius. Instant recognizability, causes tons of comments. Any press is good press.
    • nsxwolf 13y ago
      Well what may doom them is that their concoction looks like human snot, or even semen.
• zeroexzeroone 13y ago
  Most people have already screwed themselves with the traditional "American" diet. I can see why this would be enticing. I, for one, prefer raw food - vegetables and animals I can hunt myself (when I can). I wouldn't call it Paleo - I would call it NORMAL EATING. I also run every day and do some moderate lifting every other day with yoga every night. I feel great, actually, and don't need something that looks like raw cocaine to put in my body. I don't trust food bought from the internet, no matter how it looks or what the reviews are. Farmer's markets are where its at - buy local and buy raw, everything else is a waste of time.
• ratherbefuddled 13y ago
  I'm amazed the key question hasn't been asked or answered yet: Does it taste good?
  • zeroexzeroone 13y ago
    Looks to me like it tastes like chicken.
  • antihero 13y ago
    According to the guy who made it it tastes fantastic, so empirically yes, of course.
  • Afforess 13y ago
    Yes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTkuvppi334 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTkuvppi334
• gnoway 13y ago
  Aside from the possible health issues, I'm kind of disappointed with the price. It's pretty expensive!
  • gph 13y ago
    That's how I felt. I wonder how much it costs to produce per "meal" for them. Because they are charging ~3.10 per "meal" at the weekly rate. Maybe there will be a better price after they officially launch. But it kind of feels like they are taking a heavy profit at that rate. Perhaps making a quick buck upfront in case this doesn't pan out in the long run? Either way that and the snake-oil type sales pitch has really turned me off. Through all the hoopla this generated on HN I mostly sat on the fence. Now I feel distinctly like I don't trust them. But they've got backers, so we'll see the results eventually.
• georgebonnr 13y ago
  Ok, so just to be clear... this is real? And not an elaborate Charlton Heston joke? Well color me surprised that... they used the name Soylent.
• tinco 13y ago
  It's crazy how strongly people react to the idea of this drink. It contains only ingredients that are found in other nutrients. That means the FDA will probably give it a stamp of approval without even giving it a second thought. There's this idea that because we have such stringent laws governing our medicine, we probably have such laws governing food too. But the reality of it is that if you take a bunch of ingredients that have already been established in the market and you throw them together you're allowed to call it food and sell it in the supermarkets. In a macabre way, if this drink _does_ seriously harm someone, and they sue these guys that would actually be a good thing, because these guys are doing nothing different from what the preprocessed food industry is doing. Except that the preprocessed food industry optimizes for minimal ingredient costs and maximal consumability, where Rob is optimizing Soylent for maximal ingredient coverage and minimal consumation need, the exact opposite! We might actually get some sane laws (like the rejected one that said food marketed for children should consist of at least 50% nutrients) Before you question the integrity of this project, please consider that Rob himself has already been living almost exclusively for 4 months. No that does not mean this product is by all means safe or that you should replicate him without doubt, but it does mean he already put his life on the line for the idea of this product. That being said, I do find it a bit disconcerting to see that all the cautionary language of his blog is gone in this marketing site. It wasn't a good idea to hire a sales person for this kind of project, he already has more initial backing than he should need in my opinion.
• jbarham 13y ago
  Startup idea: Soylent Restaurant. Only one item on the menu. No need for a kitchen or trained chefs. I'll be rich!
• jbarham 13y ago
  I'm calling it: Soylent is the Pets.com of this investment cycle. Ironically dog food is probably more nutritionally balanced than Soylent, which is almost beyond parody.
• yadamo 13y ago
  Let's stop and think. This is a good thing. The truth is, none of us know whether or not it's snake oil. Just because we don't have enough information to prove it isn't a farce (besides the founders' insistence on their good health), does not mean we have enough information to prove that it is. Is it dangerous? Highly unlikely. The vast majority of early adopters will probably be people at least somewhat characteristic of this community, meaning smart enough to know that if something makes you feel awful, you should probably stop eating it. If you bought a month's supply, maybe you get burned a few hundred bucks and it wasn't the best decision. If you bought a week's supply, you tried it for a few days and felt terrible, just make the intelligent decision and stop eating it (or drinking or whatever the process of consumption should be called). Whether or not the people behind this are looking out for everyone else, we don't know. But let's be honest, neither is McDonald's or even the businesses stocking microwave dinners in grocery stores. They're in it to make a profit, not to fill you with the proper nutrition. Frankly, the goal of many of the businesses in the food industry is to cause customers to crave the product, often at the expense of nutrition (i.e. by loading with sugar, conditioning the brain to crave more). To say that they know better than these 20-somethings who have been collecting some actual data besides "hm, tastes good" is exceptionally naive. Your average gym rat eats far healthier than a microwave dinner diet. This could be bad. But none of us have the data to prove it. Until then, I'm hopeful. Innovation in this industry is long overdue. To say that these 'kids' are too young or inexperienced to make a real innovation and prove us all wrong, is a shame, especially in this community. Is it perfect for everyone? Doubtful. Is it better, on average, than the diet many of us are consuming? Well, that just might be true. Who are we to say it isn't?
• mecha 13y ago
  What, it's only at version 0.6!? I'll usually wait until my food at least matures to version 1.0.
  • zappbrannigan 13y ago
    Best comment. Ever.
• collypops 13y ago
  Rob has been testing (and modifying) Soylent for mere months. He has a bunch of human Guinea Pigs that have been testing various mixes for mere weeks. How is a Kickstarter-esque campaign the logical next step? It sounds like the guys behind this are impatient, overconfident and reckless. Worse than that, they're preying on those caught up in how fashionable crowd-funding is these days. I doubt very much that a website like Kickstarter would actually get behind a project like this, which is why they've had to roll their own website. If these guys had a background in Bromatology and did their due diligence before launching this campaign, I'd be skeptical. Just imagine how confident I am, given the reality.
• blhack 13y ago
  Wow there is a lot of hate in this thread... A lot of the arguments here seem to boil down to "Much smarter people are working on this and they haven't solved it, who the hell does this KID think he is?!?" That's pretty depressing for a website that, at least originally, was to help startups talk to one another. Shame on you, hacker news. You're smarter than this. By this logic, never ever trust your data to anybody other than IBM because those dumb hacker kids don't know what they're doing! Second: "He's violating ALL KINDS of FDA regulations! [none of which I can name]" Oh is he? Because if you actually look at what he's doing, it appears that he is taking things are already approved from human consumption, and mixing them together. This would be akin to a baker taking eggs and flour and mixing them. What he's selling (although selling is a bit of an incorrect word here) is effectively a big power bar, except his comes in powerdered form. There are some hippies that sell power bars at my local coffee shop. They are terrible. What sort of advanced degrees do you suppose the hippies have? None? Possibly some experience in "baking"? Finally: this is being presented within the context of "an experiment". If you start eating soylent, and you get sick, STOP EATING IT! I'd imagine that I might have similar results if I ate nothing but the hippie vegan power bars at the coffee shop. Personally, I'll be in for whatever the $65 level is. 1) Because I think this is neat 2) I want to encourage people to experiment with the world around them. 3) I'm not an idiot, and if I start feeling sick as a result of not eating any "real" food, I'll stop eating soylent. Geesh.
  • DanBC 13y ago
    > it appears that he is taking things are already approved from human consumption, and mixing them together. ...and then saying that the nutrients are stable for years. > A lot of the arguments here seem to boil down to "Much smarter people are working on this and they haven't solved it, who the hell does this KID think he is?!?" Mavericks can solve big problems. They show their working; they provide a demonstration; they give a proof. Other people then pick at the work to see if there are any problems. That's how science works. We check the sample sizes, we check the stats, we check the confounding factors, we proceed cautiously. This guy has gone from self-experimentation (and caution about letting other people try it) to a full blown sales pitch full of errors and over-blown claims. The actual product might not be the TimeCube of nutrition, but the documentation so far is hopeless.
• mousefad 13y ago
  "I ran 3.14 miles non-stop. This is an irrational improvement." [checks date]. Late for April Fools.
• postfuturist 13y ago
  "... antioxidants, probiotics, and nootropics. It's everything the body needs." - Soylent video "It's a single cell protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs." - from The Matrix
• songzme 13y ago
  does soylent expire?
• chm 13y ago
  Ignorant crooks wanting to make a quick buck.
• cpeterso 13y ago
  What does Soylent taste like? What does "the body doesn't have to get rid of unused waste" mean? I'm reminded of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer goes on an all-yogurt diet for a week. :\ Also, it's a little disconcerting when the only founder with any food or biotech background is the sales guy.
• gems 13y ago
  Let people take risks. They can die if they'd like.
• saalweachter 13y ago
  How well does this stack up against the milk-and-potatoes diet? According to the popular science/history book 1493, it is more-or-less a complete diet in itself. The two datapoints it uses to back this up are a story about two Polish scientists who ate nothing but potatoes and milk (or milk products, like cheese and butter) for a year, and remained in perfect heath for the duration, and the claim that prior to the Potato Famine, 25% of the Irish population was already surviving on nothing but milk and potatoes indefinitely, and they were regarded as a healthy and hale race. A 2000 calorie diet of milk and potatoes (4 cups 2% milk, 5.5 300g potatoes) costs around $65 / day. Preparation time involves as little as microwaving a potato and pouring a glass of milk.
  • ceejayoz 13y ago
    I don't know where you buy your milk and potatoes but they shouldn't be costing you $65/day. :-)
    • saalweachter 13y ago
      Whoops, meant $65 / month.
  • papsosouid 13y ago
    That isn't a healthy diet, merely one that you can survive on for several years. Potatoes and milk will leave you deficient in vitamin E eventually.
• outworlder 13y ago
  I can't believe this is anything other than a carefully constructed joke. I guess that a few months from now we'll see a New York Times article explaining how a fake startup with a fake product managed to raise seed capital.
• leot 13y ago
  I have a soylent-like thing that I've started eating, and I've personally found the impact to be wonderful. It's arguably easier, and it's potentially healthier. It is extremely inexpensive, delicious, vegetarian/vegan-if-eggs-are-omitted, flexible, nutrient rich, high in fiber, high in good fats, relatively "slow-cal"/low glycemic index, wheat gluten-free, protein rich, easy to digest, and very quick to prepare. Pre-cooked in large quantity weekly/every-two-weeks: - quinoa (2 minutes total prep time, in a large cheap rice cooker) - sweet potatoes (4 minutes total prep time -- simply baked in foil 30 mins to a side at 425 F) - beans (I do black beans, Mexican style -- this can take a fair bit longer, but they're super tasty, and can last 2-3 weeks if portions are frozen) In the morning ... Ingredients - olive oil (1/4 to 1/2 a cup) - pre-cooked quinoa (3/4 - 1.5 cups) - pre-cooked sweet potato (1/2 - 1 cup) - pre-cooked beans (1/2 - 1 cup) - eggs (1-4) - greens (kale/spinach/chard/whatever) - salt and peper - hot sauce!! I pour the olive oil in a large cast iron skillet (cast iron is the best!). I then add the cooked quinoa and fry at high heat for maybe five minutes -- the quinoa should absorb most of the oil (there should be no smoking or anything!). Then I add some beans and some sweet potato (skins on! and, for the last few mornings I haven't had beans so it's been sweet potato only) and mix it all up. Then comes some chopped up vegetables (kale/spinach/chard). When the vegetables are 70% cooked or so I add one to four eggs (this morning it was four). I mix the eggs in with the rest of the hot conglomeration and cook them very briefly, being careful to avoid having them spend too much time on the hot skillet (which makes them rubbery). I then put the hot mess into a bowl. If I have avocados (as I do now) I chop one up and mix it with some salt and lemon juice and put it on top of everything. I usually douse it all with hot sauce, repeatedly. I estimate that my breakfasts are typically between 1800 and 2800 calories, though some days (like today) I only get through a part of it, in which case I save it for later. If I get through it all, it usually means I don't have to worry about eating anything more than a snack at dinner time. This has the benefit of avoiding the afternoon food-coma caused by lunch. I wash the meal down with some homemade carrot-ginger-apple-greens-beet juice (mixed in with a bit of creatine).
  • papsosouid 13y ago
    What you described is absolutely not healthier. You are clearly not meeting 100% RDI on many vitamins and minerals. Where is your vitamin E? Why is the quinoa even there? That is only "protein rich" if you are eating 4 eggs, and are very generous with your definition of "protein rich".
• owencm 13y ago
  I've started a wiki page on Slant.co for people to outline the main arguments why Soylent may or may not be healthy since these threads can be very hard to follow all the great discussion going back and forth! Please help me flesh it out so it can help people come to their own conclusion about Soylent's safety: http://www.slant.co/topics/695/~is-it-safe-to-replace-my-diet-with-soylent http://www.slant.co/topics/695/~is-it-safe-to-replace-my-die...
• enraged_camel 13y ago
  The most depressing thing about this whole thing is the alarmingly high number of commenters here who seem to not have the most basic grasp of how science works, and what types of evidence are necessary before something can be deemed safe. Here is a hint, folks: it is called a random controlled trial. Until these Soylent guys conduct a few of those and show that their product is not only just better, but also safe for consumption, it needs to be dismissed and ignored.
• flippyhead 13y ago
  The audio on their video is sooo bad!
• bfung 13y ago
  A request for those who might go on the Soylent diet, starting in july (a month before the estimated shipping date), during your Soylent diet: 1. Record your current height 2. Record daily: weight + timestamp, sleep start time, sleep stop time, food consumption (http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/ perhaps to help or alternatives), exercise, and how you feel physically (tired, energetic, sleepy...). 3. Blog about your experience and contribute the data to science. No point in bashing or hyping this up, we'll have some data points in a few months. Disclaimer: I will not be participating in this experiment, but am interested in the results. =D
• gclaramunt 13y ago
  Only one individual and only three months is far from enough to claim that works. I bet you can go better (and safer!) with military rations. Pretty sure the army/air force would have those experiments nailed down in the 50'
• Selfcommit 13y ago
  Anyone else pick up on the fact that they claim to be allergen free? They use whey protein in the drink, so way are they even close to allergen free. They also have a poor understanding of what constitutes an allergen.
• notdrunkatall 13y ago
  Good god, $184k as of this writing. Are people retarded?
• aviv 13y ago
  I don't understand why they had to name their product "Soylent". It doesn't even contain soy. Many people avoid soy products and/or have negative associations with it (GMO, Monsanto, phytoestrogens, allergy). Why would you alienate potential customers with a product name that beings with "Soy"?
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• anuraj 13y ago
  Has it been vetted by FDA? What is the long term effect of having a supplement instead of regular food? Where is the controlled trial data?
• TERTEWRT 13y ago
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• jchook 13y ago
  1:07 "no waste" -- did he just say he doesn't poop anymore?
• atarian 13y ago
  You know, some of the things that ended up being super successful (Velcro, shopping carts) are the things that a whole bunch of people initially panned and rejected. I feel pretty confident that this is the case right now. A lot of people here are shitting on these guys for creating something that completely contradicts our notion of nutrition. I for one, support this new venture and wish them the best of luck.
• djt 13y ago
  - I don't care how much money these guys make out of this - I don't care what they do to their own bodies - I do care that they don't have any rigorous testing done before offering this to the public without disclaimers.
  • cookingrobot 13y ago
    We're smart - the disclaimers aren't necessary. If we weren't smart, they wouldn't help anyway. I agree they've gotten carried away in their claims and are focusing the pitch on some silly stuff.. for ex I don't think they're going to solve world hunger. But these are criticisms of this particular pitch, and don't change at all the actual product they're pushing: a best effort implementation of medical science's actual nutrition guidelines + some nootropics.
• cookingrobot 13y ago
  Relevant XKCD (the current one!) http://xkcd.com/1215/ http://xkcd.com/1215/
• cmccabe 13y ago
  Ugh, every discussion about soylent follows the same pattern. person #1: But he hasn't proven it's safe! person #2: But you haven't proven that it isn't! person #1: But he doesn't have a PhD or any qualifications in food science! person #2: But you don't either! And anyway the real experts admit they don't know what they're doing anyway. The fake experts are busy pushing colon cleanse products and miracle diets. person #1: But he's playing with people's lives! Think of the children! person #2: But so are the guys who invented the Doritos taco shell, the twinkie, and the super-sized french fries. Why the double standard? How about injecting some reality into this debate and admitting that nobody is going to actually eat nothing but soylent every day. OK, maybe possibly the original inventor will stick to it for a while, but I can't imagine anyone else possibly doing this. Most Americans can barely make it between meals without grabbing a snack. Do you really think someone is going to eat nothing but green snot for a year? All these arguments are irrelevant, really.
• Kiro 13y ago
  I personally don't find the promises hard to believe. Losing or maintaining weight is all about energy in/energy out. If you keep a consistent kcal intake controlling weight will be easy. For the cognitive effects it's easy to understand once you realise how taxing it is to digest food. Anyone who has been fasting or been on a lean diet knows that it makes you much more vibrant and sharp.
• Tenoke 13y ago
  TL;DR The guy's marketing is questionable, he makes misleading claims, hasn't done proper testing but the product or a spin-off still has the potential to be useful to many people.
• Neepy 13y ago
  Does anybody know about international exporting restrictions for goods such as this? My freight forwarder restricts food and beverage, but not sure if it's technically classified as such?
• qwerta 13y ago
  Hilarious. After 3 years and 2M$ spend they will reinvent the bread. Now we only need similar startup to reinvent the water and maybe air :-)
• juskrey 13y ago
  Guys, do not worry. When they will raise enough money, they will fund 10 or even 100 appropriate researches that will prove the credibility, safety and superiority of this product to natural food. And everything will be ok. They have been doing that for ages.
• wldlyinaccurate 13y ago
  If Soylent actually takes off and becomes popular (I really hope it doesn't btw. See my other comment for why), I wouldn't be surprised if some of the big food companies come down on them really hard. I mean, just imagine what this product would do to the food industry.
• talmir 13y ago
  When will the green version come out?
• benjah 13y ago
  guys guys guys. . . "It's made of people." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE This is marketing genius
• milesf 13y ago
  I apologize for behaving badly and deleting most of my posts. I've cooled off now, but am still very concerned for people being taken in by this. This gif pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter: http://i.imgur.com/twkp3So.gif http://i.imgur.com/twkp3So.gif