25 ms·

An eBook pricing model that resulted in $100,000 in sales

156 points by dshah 13y ago

Swizec 13y ago
I am an author, trying to self-publish and whatnot. After reading this post I almost bought the book. Then I didn't. Because of this pricing model. I wanted to buy the book. The value preposition is awesome and it is exactly the kind of content I need right now. The first option is super expensive and includes a bunch of things I don't care about. I want the book, not some videos I'll never watch, not a 90 day launch plan I'll never use. I want to read your book Nathan Barry. The second option is still pretty damn expensive, and it's still shoving a bunch of things I don't want down my throat. I want the book. Last option. $30, okay that's pretty reasonable. I will even swallow the patronisingly added one month subscription to ConvertKit, whatever that is. I just wanted the book and this option has the least crap with it. Great. Oh, for $29 I only get a PDF ... but I wanted a book. For that much money I really expected at least a paperback, possibly a hardcover. I'm sorry Nathan Barry, I would love to read your book, heck, I want to read your book. But none of your pricing options make any sense for me. PS: I passionately dislike watching videos and find it almost impossible to learn from them. I mean really learn, not just feel like I've learned.
- keiferski 13y ago
  If he sold physical copies of the book for $29, his profit margin would be cut down significantly.
  - Swizec 13y ago
    Not really. Print on demand for a 170 page book costs about $4 per copy. That's not really a big profit margin hit.
    - _raul 13y ago
      Plus shipping costs. That print on demand price sounds good, where did you find it?
      - Swizec 13y ago
        I will gladly pay shipping costs when I buy a book. I just googled "price for print on demand paperback"
      - nhangen 13y ago
        Createspace has great pricing. I'm guessing that was the source.
    - tnorthcutt 13y ago
      What do you consider big? $4 is a loss of 13.8% of the sales price. If you assume he already has some costs (his time to write the book is quite valuable), the loss in profit is even more. A 13.8% loss in profit would sink many businesses.
    - bennesvig 13y ago
      After shipping, it costs me about $3/book for a 160 page paperback copy of my book if I order 20+ at a time via CreateSpace.
- count 13y ago
  Maybe it's just different learning styles, but I think most folks prefer video to text. Like you, I can't stand it - I jump straight to a transcript or other text to consume the information: I read and understand WAY faster than people talk (or I can listen). That said, I hate physical books, and am much happier with a PDF (or better, an actual ebook format) for the full price of a regular, physical book. I'm paying for the content, not the dead tree components.
  - nathanbarry 13y ago
    I found everyone has a different style, that's why I include all the options as separate packages. Those who love video can buy that, but if you don't like it you can get just the book for less money. Also, transcripts are coming for all the interviews. 6 are done, the other 5 should be ready this week. The only thing I haven't done yet is print books. Maybe eventually.
    - graeme 13y ago
      I just bought your book. I'm hoping it can help with marketing my existing books, and selling them directly online. I currently sell on amazon. If you're interested in print, it's actually very easy. I used Aaron Shepard's books to get a rough idea of how things worked, and also found a freelancer who showed me the ropes. His 'Plan B' is great advice for how to get amazon to discount your book without reducing your royalties. If you have any questions about POD, I'd be happy to help. My email's in my profile.
  - obviouslygreen 13y ago
    ...I think most folks prefer video to text. I'm in the same boat as both of you regarding taking little away from video, but while I see this statement a lot, my limited experience doesn't seem to match (of course, neither of these things indicates either position is correct in any meaningful way). Is there a reason you believe this, or is it just other people you've met/spoken with who have that preference?
    - Swizec 13y ago
- rayvinly 13y ago
  We have to realize that no product is built for everyone. Hey, Android fans dislike the iPhone, but there's nothing Apple can do about it. The reason that you dislike the pricing model is because there is not already enough trust being built between you and the author for you to believe the values Nathan can provide. Yes you are intrigued by the headline and promise at the top of the landing page. But you are also internalizing to find reasons not to buy because you don't trust the author yet. Like Apple, there is nothing Nathan can do about it. Maybe he shouldn't release anything until he gets trust from everyone on the planet? There is nothing wrong not to buy the product. If I just knew Nathan for the first time with Authority, I probably won't buy it either. But I've followed him for some time and trust he can deliver, so I bought the complete package without much hesitation.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    Android fans dislike the iPhone So, the book appeals to people who think like this?
- jeremymcanally 13y ago
  Several people seem to be under the impression that the actually information in books isn't worth very much, and unfortunately, I think we have publishers to blame for that. Books, as they are priced on Amazon for example, are not priced to make the author any profit. They are priced to benefit the publisher. The vast, vast majority of that low price goes towards the publishers ethereal and rarely specified "costs" (plus, they absorb about 80-90% of the profits typically). They can price things at such a low price because they make up for it in volume. Their costs actually go way down as volume goes up. Printing is much cheaper, especially if they're sending a steady stream of work to a particular printer. Editing costs don't scale linearly in most agencies. Support costs definitely don't scale linearly. So they can spread their costs around to several different projects and still make a boatload of money. Independent authors, who are trying to actually make somewhat of a living off of their works, do not have such luxuries. They are the editing department. They are the typesetting department. They are their support department. They're doing all these things with no benefits of economies of scale whatsoever. So it costs more. This is also why academic presses tend to cost more, too, because they're operating on a much smaller scale. I can appreciate the desire for a physical book. I, too, prefer dead trees. Some of my own readers prefer it too (and for some reason think for $12 [or less], they'll get it), but in reality you have to realize that in paying $39 or $69 for that PDF, you're paying for a lot more hours of work from one person, costs that aren't spread across an entire business like a publisher, and that money is going directly to the author who is providing the product, which means it's probably (not always) going to be of a higher quality and a better purchasing experience (i.e., you could likely e-mail Nathan with a question and get a reasonable response). Also, the scale of marketing for an independent author is much smaller. It's simply impossible to negotiate with the bigger players for shelf space, and it's not profitable to invest in tons of streams of marketing typically. So, you're left to target the niches you're writing for the best you can and hope it works out in your favor. I've had fabulous successes ($50k+++) and horrible flops (< $1,000 for a lot of work). A lot of that is because it's difficult to saturate the general market and get them interested in your work. Very rarely will someone come over your book and say "Oh hey I've heard about Rails [or whatever]. I'll buy that." because most people aren't browsing the Internet using Google's "I'm Feeling Lucky." So for most indie authors who aren't selling like Nathan, the higher price is needed to justify the investment of effort into the book. So, that wall of text is to say: please think about the person behind the book and the effort they're putting into it when you look at the price tag. Obviously, they want to make money. They're not pricing it to give it away. But likewise, they're also [probably] trying to feed a family and keep writing more books.
- biddyco 13y ago
  For $29 you get a PDF and the mobi/epub formats for your iPad, kindle or whatever else
- cmonkey 13y ago
  If you're serious about publishing, and are actually going to make the commitment to yourself to publish your eBook idea then $29 is peanuts. If reading this book helps you sell 3 more copies (assuming $10 per eBook) you already made your money back. So it's not a print book, I get that, I prefer to read paper as well. You do get all the information, and it's coming from someone who has actually done it, 3x over. If you were doing a startup and a founder who had 3 successful startups opened the kimono for $29 would you still think it was too much ?
  - deleted 13y ago
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- patio11 13y ago
  "As a vegetarian, I don't like how you priced your hotdogs" should not weigh too heavily on any of the hotdog makers in the room. This comes up quite a bit here, for example when people who do not own businesses opine that $200 a month for a Business plan of SaasFoo shocks the conscience.
  - deleted 13y ago
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  - Swizec 13y ago
    After some thought, I realized what was going on in my thought process. The problem isn't the price, the problem is the feeling that somebody is trying desperately to add bells and whistles to their thing to inflate the price. Then I saw that there's no book book with the $30 option and it was just the final nail in the coffin. I think if that was the only option, or it was listed first, I would buy it. Especially if there was no patronizing "one month of something" and copy that tells me I am a bad person for not wanting the bells and whistles. But here's the thing, my feedback reads: "As your target market[1], I don't like what you're selling me". [1] assuming the target market are people in the process of writing and publishing a self-published (e)book
    - chc 13y ago
      Oops, I meant to upvote you, but I think I accidentally downvoted you. I think the distinction from what patio11 is talking about here is important — not all complaints about pricing structures boil down to "this is too expensive."
    - adrianhoward 13y ago
      But here's the thing, my feedback reads: "As your target market[1], I don't like what you're selling me". [1] assuming the target market are people in the process of writing and publishing a self-published (e)book No. The target market is "people in the process of writing and publishing a self-published (e)book - who are willing to buy a ebook at price point $X". The market of folk who would buy the book at $10 is probably larger - but I guarantee it's not 10 x larger. And if you're not going to get at least $30 value from the book - it doesn't sound like you're the market. (Also - as an aside - I get the impression that you think that paper is the largest cost of a paper book. That for $30 price point paper would be expected... The thing is that the paper bit is the cheapest part of a book. On a normal bookshop book it's about 10% of the money you pay.)
- cantrevealname 13y ago
  Buy the PDF and print it yourself. I do this all the time. I prefer printed material when I'm going to study something seriously. Printing it yourself is actually quite inexpensive -- provided that you have a laser printer. (The economics of an ink-jet printer for long documents is horrible.) Let's do the math: The OP says his book is a 125-page PDF. My double-sided laser printer will use just 63 sheets of paper. I can buy high-quality 22-pound paper for $10, including tax, for a 500-sheet package. Therefore, paper will cost 63/500 * $10 = $1.26. The cost of my laser printer is one-time sunk cost, and I need a laser printer for other reasons than printing e-books, so I'll ignore the laser printer's cost (besides, it's not even that expensive). I can refill a 6000-sheet toner cartridge (black only) for $75 including tax. Thus, toner to print the 125-page PDF will cost 125/6000 * $75 = $1.56. Total cost to print the PDF yourself: $1.26 + $1.56 = $2.82. So unless you really care about the binding, or the PDF is in color (and needs the colors), then printing it yourself is really quite cheap.
  - salemh 13y ago
    Increases barrier to his "I want a paperback" as a simplistic counterpoint. Your sunk cost of "I need a laser printer for other reasons" does not reflect the issue of "I want a paperback," not that "I want a paperback, but I'll settle for buying and printing it myself."
- rmc 13y ago
  Tough. You're saying the seller should make less income just because you want a hardback book?
- Vitaly 13y ago
  So you say the book actually contains information you need right now (as an author trying to publish yourself) but you decided not to pay 30$ just because its not a paperback? seriously? Don't you think there is a big chance you will be able to sell a bit more of your own books after you read this one? Who cares if its a dead tree version? (BTW, I stopped paying for dead trees, I only ever buy ebooks for the last several years)
bluetooth 13y ago
This is the same exact tactic employed by many of the e-book authors at Clickbank. You're basically forcing visitors into purchasing more than they originally wanted.
- tnorthcutt 13y ago
  Forcing? How did he do that?
- deleted 13y ago
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nhangen 13y ago
I once co-authored a book called Beyond Blogging that my co-author and I took great pride in writing. It was the first book I'd ever written, and we wanted it to be the "Think and Grow Rich" for bloggers. We put a lot of time into writing it, and felt it was a great product. We opted to do what Nathan did and sold it for $30-$50 for a PDF. I can't remember the cost exactly. We took a lot of heat for the price, but it did do well, and people still buy it and email me about it, many years later. We've since quit selling the PDF and posted it on Amazon and BN via Createspace, but at the time, the cost of producing a nice looking and readable PDF was not cheap. Launching was hard, as was keeping up with support. While I don't regret our decision to price high and launch PDF only, as we needed something meaty to get launch partners involved, I often wonder what would have happened if we took a long view and opted for a book proposal and/or gone to print first, at a reasonable price of say $9.99 or $14.99. It's my thought that we'd be selling more today than we currently are, would probably have a 2nd or 3rd version, and might have received a follow-on book deal to write a follow-up volume. Instead, I have a book that once made me some decent cash, but isn't really part of my average day's business plan. It feels like a waste. Moral of the story is: If you want to make a ton of quick cash, this pricing model will work, and you'll be happy as people laud you for the strategy (which really isn't new) and the amount of money you made. But I don't think it's a good long-term strategy, and I don't think it helps you build authority of any lasting kind.
- adrianmn 13y ago
  Or you could have built a list of buyers and survey them on what else they want to learn and have an instant market for your 2nd book since they already like your writing.
dmix 13y ago
This is interesting. I've been following along with Nathan's posts for a while. I checked the new website design (http://nathanbarry.com/webapps/ http://nathanbarry.com/webapps/). I love the focus on copywriting. My first reaction is that it lacks a strong visual hierarchy. Everything is blue and the call to actions (price circles) blends in with the rest of the page. Whereas in the previous design, the pricing/buttons were more obvious with the vertical table grid design. The main difference is that package descriptions have been expanded significantly, which is great. It's no longer just bullet points + price. More copy is always better. But by not having a compact table with the 3 package options, it makes comparing the packages harder. I'm curious if this is why the sales increased? It seems to have obscured the notion that it's an ebook that optionally comes packaged with extras. It is now sold primarily as a complete course of ebook+videos+resources with a secondary option of just buying the book. That seems to be a big change in the focus of the product/marketing rather than just a simple pricing change on the book itself.
qeorge 13y ago
Nathan, you're really coming out with some great posts. Please continue. I saw another great post on this topic on the VWO blog recently which suggests reversing your pricing table to show the most expensive test first as an A/B test idea, and relates it to the "primacy effect": http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/split-testing-blog/pricing-page-testing/ http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/split-testing-blog/pricing... I'm testing it now (no conclusive results yet), but I think it makes a lot of sense. I would love to see an A/B test of this on The App Design Handbook's sales page.
- bennesvig 13y ago
  The advice of showing the most expensive item first is in the book Influence. They run a few tests, confirming that it does lead to more sales. http://www.amazon.com/dp/006124189X/ref=r_soa_w_d http://www.amazon.com/dp/006124189X/ref=r_soa_w_d
  - qeorge 13y ago
    Very cool, didn't know that. I hadn't gotten around to reading Influence yet, but I'll probably do that this weekend. Thanks!
csomar 13y ago
This is a really flawed analysis. You don't mention here the traffic and the conversion rate. It's possible for your second venture that you had much more traffic, better conversions, loyal customers...
- tnorthcutt 13y ago
  He included exact numbers of conversions (sales).
  - csomar 13y ago
    Sales are sales and conversions are conversions. Conversions = sales / visitors (which is a % rate)
    - jbigelow76 13y ago
      There is a meaningful difference between the terms "conversion" and a "conversion rate". A conversion is an action, be it a sale or otherwise. Marketers and ad serving platforms do not use the terms interchangeably, just like clicks and click-thru-rate are not interchangeable.
      - csomar 13y ago
        I agree that I was not quite precise and I really don't have solid sources (not sure if there are standards/rules for this). However, Wikipedia° suggests that conversion might refer to conversion rate. That's so far the only thing that I found from a few minutes search. ° http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion#Marketing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion#Marketing
        tnorthcutt 13y ago
        "Refer to" is not the same as "means the same as". The linked page is a disambiguation page, which is not the same as a page that is explaining exactly what a particular word means. A conversion is a single thing: an event or transaction. A conversion rate is a number. The two are not identical.
willbill 13y ago
This pricing model also works for consulting as well. Listen to Obie Fernandez talk about 321-Launch and you'll understand that value of bundling when it comes to consulting services. Simply put, price yourself high. People will attach value to your work because of this. Also, from a consulting standpoint: This accomplishes a few things. It affords you time to spend on non-billable hours such as taxes and filling your pipeline. Finally, adding a 'special sauce' packages allows you to eventually de-commoditize yourself and allow you to start transitioning those jobs that are interchangeable to others under you without your client objecting too strenuously.
deleted 13y ago
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dusklight 13y ago
Is everything only about money? Is it really ethical to try to get as much money out of your customers? If you are making a profit after all costs are considered, how much profit is too much? The question is maybe not too important when applied to something like an e-book, but it becomes different when applied to something people think they cannot do without, like a college education or healthcare. In those situations we have seen vendors will gouge you for as much as they can get, which ends up being as much as you have. We as a society need to rethink whether that should be considered acceptable behavior. I don't know if legislation is necessarily the right solution (I am inclined to think it is not) but at the very least people should feel shameful for being so greedy.
- thoughtcriminal 13y ago
  Okay, so I'm not alone on this. Trying to wring every last penny out of your customer with inflated prices just so you can brag about it on guest blog posts isn't cool. For those who do want to maxprice your product and jack your customers, at least don't go saying you care about the startup community. Actions speak louder than words.
  - white_devil 13y ago
    I've found it annoying how he's milking his mailing list (that he got off of HN publicity) for all it's worth. He used to hit us with a sales pitch basically every day, now it's only every 5 - 9 days or so.
    - tnorthcutt 13y ago
      Would that be the opt-in mailing list? The one that he got off of HN publicity, by posting useful information on his site to share with other people?
      - white_devil 13y ago
        Yes, that would be the one. The fact that it was opt-in is not relevant to him using it way too aggressively.
toothlessjoe 13y ago
Or you can take a different tack, like this guy: http://arttrezzo.com/ebook_pricing.html http://arttrezzo.com/ebook_pricing.html
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  Some books appeal a million people, you can ask $1 for those, and be quite ok. Other books appeal a thousand people, if you get $1 from everybody that thinks about buying those, you'll get $1k at the bank.
deleted 13y ago
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Felix21 13y ago
First of all, Nathan Barry is an excellent guy. Many people talk, he walks the walk... Now back to the matter: If you follow this strategy you must understand that this is not a method for long term ebook sales. You'll get a quick burst of cash and not much more after This isn't a bad thing, this is how this method works. That's why he has 3 books out in such a short period of time.... If you want long term sales, there is another more profitable way to do it (too long for me to explain here). Also, In some comments here, some people were complaining that the price was too high for a book. But he is not selling a BOOK; he's selling a proven system for making up to $100,000 with your own books. His mistake was framing "authority" as a book in his sales letter and that's why such problems arise.
- willvarfar 13y ago
  Please summarize the better way for long term sales
  - Felix21 13y ago
    It works like this: I'll create the best book I possibly can and sell it for about 19.99. I still make a bit of money up front(less money than Nathan with this model... at the beginning) but a lot more sales because the book wont be perceived as "expensive" by any customer. The goal here is NOT to make as much money as possible, BUT to make as many sales as possible. Lets call my book The FRONT_END offer and the goal of the front end offer is just to get people into my marketing funnel. Next... I now have a massive list of customers and research shows that once people buy from you once, they are more likely to buy from you again... It is to this customer list that I will sell the videos, interviews and in my case, I'll add bootcamps, one-on-one consulting sessions etc... I'll call these the BACKEND_SALES. So, to summarise, you offer: 1. A low cost FRONT_END product to get people onto a customer list. 2. A long list of Higher ticket BACK_END products You'll be reducing the barrier to entry into your marketing funnel, and you'll build a large customer list that you can sell to for years... Over the course of the first year, you'll make significantly more this way(depending on your niche) than if you tried to make all that money up-front like this... I'll do some case-studies and interviews pretty soon with people who I've marketed for/with who have used this system with great success..
orangethirty 13y ago
Sometimes, I just wished people stopped trying to re-invent the wheel. All of this stuff is not new. It is covered in every DIY marketing book that has been published since the 70's. I don't get what is the fascination of trying to re-invent (or disrupt) marketing. No need for that. Just read a few books, take a structured approach to testing, and see the money roll in. Also, if you make a post complaining how the book is too expensive and you wont buy it, guess what? you are not the target market. The target market is always people who can and will pay for something. Not people who can and will complain about the price. Want to learn marketing? Start with the book Guerilla Marketing.
orangethirty 13y ago
Your sales funnel approach is deprecated. What is used now is called a sales ladder. Rather than have people pass through a funnel, you have them take steps towards purchase. Sounds to be the same, but it is quite different, and much more effective. Do some research on it.
- boothead 13y ago
  Do you have any links on sales ladder? I've always heard of it referred to as a funnel before.
jhonovich 13y ago
I paid $79 for the new 'Authority' release and am disappointed, more so because it's that expensive. I am sure he maximized revenue for the short term, but I am unlikely to buy anything else from him again.
BHSPitMonkey 13y ago
> I always ask myself, “If I were to double the price (from $0.99 to $1.99), would I lose more than half the sales?” This isn't very useful on its own; The arithmetic was never the hard part. Predicting your success is.

156 points by dshah 13y ago

I am an author, trying to self-publish and whatnot. After reading this post I almost bought the book. Then I didn't. Because of this pricing model. I wanted to buy the book. The value preposition is awesome and it is exactly the kind of content I need right now. The first option is super expensive and includes a bunch of things I don't care about. I want the book, not some videos I'll never watch, not a 90 day launch plan I'll never use. I want to read your book Nathan Barry. The second option is still pretty damn expensive, and it's still shoving a bunch of things I don't want down my throat. I want the book. Last option. $30, okay that's pretty reasonable. I will even swallow the patronisingly added one month subscription to ConvertKit, whatever that is. I just wanted the book and this option has the least crap with it. Great. Oh, for $29 I only get a PDF ... but I wanted a book. For that much money I really expected at least a paperback, possibly a hardcover. I'm sorry Nathan Barry, I would love to read your book, heck, I want to read your book. But none of your pricing options make any sense for me. PS: I passionately dislike watching videos and find it almost impossible to learn from them. I mean really learn, not just feel like I've learned.

keiferski 13y ago
If he sold physical copies of the book for $29, his profit margin would be cut down significantly.
- Swizec 13y ago
  Not really. Print on demand for a 170 page book costs about $4 per copy. That's not really a big profit margin hit.
  - _raul 13y ago
    Plus shipping costs. That print on demand price sounds good, where did you find it?
    - Swizec 13y ago
      I will gladly pay shipping costs when I buy a book. I just googled "price for print on demand paperback"
    - nhangen 13y ago
      Createspace has great pricing. I'm guessing that was the source.
  - tnorthcutt 13y ago
    What do you consider big? $4 is a loss of 13.8% of the sales price. If you assume he already has some costs (his time to write the book is quite valuable), the loss in profit is even more. A 13.8% loss in profit would sink many businesses.
  - bennesvig 13y ago
    After shipping, it costs me about $3/book for a 160 page paperback copy of my book if I order 20+ at a time via CreateSpace.
count 13y ago
Maybe it's just different learning styles, but I think most folks prefer video to text. Like you, I can't stand it - I jump straight to a transcript or other text to consume the information: I read and understand WAY faster than people talk (or I can listen). That said, I hate physical books, and am much happier with a PDF (or better, an actual ebook format) for the full price of a regular, physical book. I'm paying for the content, not the dead tree components.
- nathanbarry 13y ago
  I found everyone has a different style, that's why I include all the options as separate packages. Those who love video can buy that, but if you don't like it you can get just the book for less money. Also, transcripts are coming for all the interviews. 6 are done, the other 5 should be ready this week. The only thing I haven't done yet is print books. Maybe eventually.
  - graeme 13y ago
    I just bought your book. I'm hoping it can help with marketing my existing books, and selling them directly online. I currently sell on amazon. If you're interested in print, it's actually very easy. I used Aaron Shepard's books to get a rough idea of how things worked, and also found a freelancer who showed me the ropes. His 'Plan B' is great advice for how to get amazon to discount your book without reducing your royalties. If you have any questions about POD, I'd be happy to help. My email's in my profile.
- obviouslygreen 13y ago
  ...I think most folks prefer video to text. I'm in the same boat as both of you regarding taking little away from video, but while I see this statement a lot, my limited experience doesn't seem to match (of course, neither of these things indicates either position is correct in any meaningful way). Is there a reason you believe this, or is it just other people you've met/spoken with who have that preference?
  - Swizec 13y ago
rayvinly 13y ago
We have to realize that no product is built for everyone. Hey, Android fans dislike the iPhone, but there's nothing Apple can do about it. The reason that you dislike the pricing model is because there is not already enough trust being built between you and the author for you to believe the values Nathan can provide. Yes you are intrigued by the headline and promise at the top of the landing page. But you are also internalizing to find reasons not to buy because you don't trust the author yet. Like Apple, there is nothing Nathan can do about it. Maybe he shouldn't release anything until he gets trust from everyone on the planet? There is nothing wrong not to buy the product. If I just knew Nathan for the first time with Authority, I probably won't buy it either. But I've followed him for some time and trust he can deliver, so I bought the complete package without much hesitation.
- rhizome 13y ago
  Android fans dislike the iPhone So, the book appeals to people who think like this?
jeremymcanally 13y ago
Several people seem to be under the impression that the actually information in books isn't worth very much, and unfortunately, I think we have publishers to blame for that. Books, as they are priced on Amazon for example, are not priced to make the author any profit. They are priced to benefit the publisher. The vast, vast majority of that low price goes towards the publishers ethereal and rarely specified "costs" (plus, they absorb about 80-90% of the profits typically). They can price things at such a low price because they make up for it in volume. Their costs actually go way down as volume goes up. Printing is much cheaper, especially if they're sending a steady stream of work to a particular printer. Editing costs don't scale linearly in most agencies. Support costs definitely don't scale linearly. So they can spread their costs around to several different projects and still make a boatload of money. Independent authors, who are trying to actually make somewhat of a living off of their works, do not have such luxuries. They are the editing department. They are the typesetting department. They are their support department. They're doing all these things with no benefits of economies of scale whatsoever. So it costs more. This is also why academic presses tend to cost more, too, because they're operating on a much smaller scale. I can appreciate the desire for a physical book. I, too, prefer dead trees. Some of my own readers prefer it too (and for some reason think for $12 [or less], they'll get it), but in reality you have to realize that in paying $39 or $69 for that PDF, you're paying for a lot more hours of work from one person, costs that aren't spread across an entire business like a publisher, and that money is going directly to the author who is providing the product, which means it's probably (not always) going to be of a higher quality and a better purchasing experience (i.e., you could likely e-mail Nathan with a question and get a reasonable response). Also, the scale of marketing for an independent author is much smaller. It's simply impossible to negotiate with the bigger players for shelf space, and it's not profitable to invest in tons of streams of marketing typically. So, you're left to target the niches you're writing for the best you can and hope it works out in your favor. I've had fabulous successes ($50k+++) and horrible flops (< $1,000 for a lot of work). A lot of that is because it's difficult to saturate the general market and get them interested in your work. Very rarely will someone come over your book and say "Oh hey I've heard about Rails [or whatever]. I'll buy that." because most people aren't browsing the Internet using Google's "I'm Feeling Lucky." So for most indie authors who aren't selling like Nathan, the higher price is needed to justify the investment of effort into the book. So, that wall of text is to say: please think about the person behind the book and the effort they're putting into it when you look at the price tag. Obviously, they want to make money. They're not pricing it to give it away. But likewise, they're also [probably] trying to feed a family and keep writing more books.
biddyco 13y ago
For $29 you get a PDF and the mobi/epub formats for your iPad, kindle or whatever else
cmonkey 13y ago
If you're serious about publishing, and are actually going to make the commitment to yourself to publish your eBook idea then $29 is peanuts. If reading this book helps you sell 3 more copies (assuming $10 per eBook) you already made your money back. So it's not a print book, I get that, I prefer to read paper as well. You do get all the information, and it's coming from someone who has actually done it, 3x over. If you were doing a startup and a founder who had 3 successful startups opened the kimono for $29 would you still think it was too much ?
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patio11 13y ago
"As a vegetarian, I don't like how you priced your hotdogs" should not weigh too heavily on any of the hotdog makers in the room. This comes up quite a bit here, for example when people who do not own businesses opine that $200 a month for a Business plan of SaasFoo shocks the conscience.
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- Swizec 13y ago
  After some thought, I realized what was going on in my thought process. The problem isn't the price, the problem is the feeling that somebody is trying desperately to add bells and whistles to their thing to inflate the price. Then I saw that there's no book book with the $30 option and it was just the final nail in the coffin. I think if that was the only option, or it was listed first, I would buy it. Especially if there was no patronizing "one month of something" and copy that tells me I am a bad person for not wanting the bells and whistles. But here's the thing, my feedback reads: "As your target market[1], I don't like what you're selling me". [1] assuming the target market are people in the process of writing and publishing a self-published (e)book
  - chc 13y ago
    Oops, I meant to upvote you, but I think I accidentally downvoted you. I think the distinction from what patio11 is talking about here is important — not all complaints about pricing structures boil down to "this is too expensive."
  - adrianhoward 13y ago
    But here's the thing, my feedback reads: "As your target market[1], I don't like what you're selling me". [1] assuming the target market are people in the process of writing and publishing a self-published (e)book No. The target market is "people in the process of writing and publishing a self-published (e)book - who are willing to buy a ebook at price point $X". The market of folk who would buy the book at $10 is probably larger - but I guarantee it's not 10 x larger. And if you're not going to get at least $30 value from the book - it doesn't sound like you're the market. (Also - as an aside - I get the impression that you think that paper is the largest cost of a paper book. That for $30 price point paper would be expected... The thing is that the paper bit is the cheapest part of a book. On a normal bookshop book it's about 10% of the money you pay.)
cantrevealname 13y ago
Buy the PDF and print it yourself. I do this all the time. I prefer printed material when I'm going to study something seriously. Printing it yourself is actually quite inexpensive -- provided that you have a laser printer. (The economics of an ink-jet printer for long documents is horrible.) Let's do the math: The OP says his book is a 125-page PDF. My double-sided laser printer will use just 63 sheets of paper. I can buy high-quality 22-pound paper for $10, including tax, for a 500-sheet package. Therefore, paper will cost 63/500 * $10 = $1.26. The cost of my laser printer is one-time sunk cost, and I need a laser printer for other reasons than printing e-books, so I'll ignore the laser printer's cost (besides, it's not even that expensive). I can refill a 6000-sheet toner cartridge (black only) for $75 including tax. Thus, toner to print the 125-page PDF will cost 125/6000 * $75 = $1.56. Total cost to print the PDF yourself: $1.26 + $1.56 = $2.82. So unless you really care about the binding, or the PDF is in color (and needs the colors), then printing it yourself is really quite cheap.
- salemh 13y ago
  Increases barrier to his "I want a paperback" as a simplistic counterpoint. Your sunk cost of "I need a laser printer for other reasons" does not reflect the issue of "I want a paperback," not that "I want a paperback, but I'll settle for buying and printing it myself."
rmc 13y ago
Tough. You're saying the seller should make less income just because you want a hardback book?
Vitaly 13y ago
So you say the book actually contains information you need right now (as an author trying to publish yourself) but you decided not to pay 30$ just because its not a paperback? seriously? Don't you think there is a big chance you will be able to sell a bit more of your own books after you read this one? Who cares if its a dead tree version? (BTW, I stopped paying for dead trees, I only ever buy ebooks for the last several years)

bluetooth 13y ago

This is the same exact tactic employed by many of the e-book authors at Clickbank. You're basically forcing visitors into purchasing more than they originally wanted.

tnorthcutt 13y ago
Forcing? How did he do that?
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nhangen 13y ago

I once co-authored a book called Beyond Blogging that my co-author and I took great pride in writing. It was the first book I'd ever written, and we wanted it to be the "Think and Grow Rich" for bloggers. We put a lot of time into writing it, and felt it was a great product. We opted to do what Nathan did and sold it for $30-$50 for a PDF. I can't remember the cost exactly. We took a lot of heat for the price, but it did do well, and people still buy it and email me about it, many years later. We've since quit selling the PDF and posted it on Amazon and BN via Createspace, but at the time, the cost of producing a nice looking and readable PDF was not cheap. Launching was hard, as was keeping up with support. While I don't regret our decision to price high and launch PDF only, as we needed something meaty to get launch partners involved, I often wonder what would have happened if we took a long view and opted for a book proposal and/or gone to print first, at a reasonable price of say $9.99 or $14.99. It's my thought that we'd be selling more today than we currently are, would probably have a 2nd or 3rd version, and might have received a follow-on book deal to write a follow-up volume. Instead, I have a book that once made me some decent cash, but isn't really part of my average day's business plan. It feels like a waste. Moral of the story is: If you want to make a ton of quick cash, this pricing model will work, and you'll be happy as people laud you for the strategy (which really isn't new) and the amount of money you made. But I don't think it's a good long-term strategy, and I don't think it helps you build authority of any lasting kind.

adrianmn 13y ago
Or you could have built a list of buyers and survey them on what else they want to learn and have an instant market for your 2nd book since they already like your writing.

dmix 13y ago

This is interesting. I've been following along with Nathan's posts for a while. I checked the new website design (http://nathanbarry.com/webapps/ http://nathanbarry.com/webapps/). I love the focus on copywriting. My first reaction is that it lacks a strong visual hierarchy. Everything is blue and the call to actions (price circles) blends in with the rest of the page. Whereas in the previous design, the pricing/buttons were more obvious with the vertical table grid design. The main difference is that package descriptions have been expanded significantly, which is great. It's no longer just bullet points + price. More copy is always better. But by not having a compact table with the 3 package options, it makes comparing the packages harder. I'm curious if this is why the sales increased? It seems to have obscured the notion that it's an ebook that optionally comes packaged with extras. It is now sold primarily as a complete course of ebook+videos+resources with a secondary option of just buying the book. That seems to be a big change in the focus of the product/marketing rather than just a simple pricing change on the book itself.

qeorge 13y ago

Nathan, you're really coming out with some great posts. Please continue. I saw another great post on this topic on the VWO blog recently which suggests reversing your pricing table to show the most expensive test first as an A/B test idea, and relates it to the "primacy effect": http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/split-testing-blog/pricing-page-testing/ http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/split-testing-blog/pricing... I'm testing it now (no conclusive results yet), but I think it makes a lot of sense. I would love to see an A/B test of this on The App Design Handbook's sales page.

bennesvig 13y ago
The advice of showing the most expensive item first is in the book Influence. They run a few tests, confirming that it does lead to more sales. http://www.amazon.com/dp/006124189X/ref=r_soa_w_d http://www.amazon.com/dp/006124189X/ref=r_soa_w_d
- qeorge 13y ago
  Very cool, didn't know that. I hadn't gotten around to reading Influence yet, but I'll probably do that this weekend. Thanks!

csomar 13y ago

This is a really flawed analysis. You don't mention here the traffic and the conversion rate. It's possible for your second venture that you had much more traffic, better conversions, loyal customers...

tnorthcutt 13y ago
He included exact numbers of conversions (sales).
- csomar 13y ago
  Sales are sales and conversions are conversions. Conversions = sales / visitors (which is a % rate)
  - jbigelow76 13y ago
    There is a meaningful difference between the terms "conversion" and a "conversion rate". A conversion is an action, be it a sale or otherwise. Marketers and ad serving platforms do not use the terms interchangeably, just like clicks and click-thru-rate are not interchangeable.
    - csomar 13y ago
      I agree that I was not quite precise and I really don't have solid sources (not sure if there are standards/rules for this). However, Wikipedia° suggests that conversion might refer to conversion rate. That's so far the only thing that I found from a few minutes search. ° http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion#Marketing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion#Marketing
      - tnorthcutt 13y ago
        "Refer to" is not the same as "means the same as". The linked page is a disambiguation page, which is not the same as a page that is explaining exactly what a particular word means. A conversion is a single thing: an event or transaction. A conversion rate is a number. The two are not identical.

willbill 13y ago

This pricing model also works for consulting as well. Listen to Obie Fernandez talk about 321-Launch and you'll understand that value of bundling when it comes to consulting services. Simply put, price yourself high. People will attach value to your work because of this. Also, from a consulting standpoint: This accomplishes a few things. It affords you time to spend on non-billable hours such as taxes and filling your pipeline. Finally, adding a 'special sauce' packages allows you to eventually de-commoditize yourself and allow you to start transitioning those jobs that are interchangeable to others under you without your client objecting too strenuously.

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dusklight 13y ago

Is everything only about money? Is it really ethical to try to get as much money out of your customers? If you are making a profit after all costs are considered, how much profit is too much? The question is maybe not too important when applied to something like an e-book, but it becomes different when applied to something people think they cannot do without, like a college education or healthcare. In those situations we have seen vendors will gouge you for as much as they can get, which ends up being as much as you have. We as a society need to rethink whether that should be considered acceptable behavior. I don't know if legislation is necessarily the right solution (I am inclined to think it is not) but at the very least people should feel shameful for being so greedy.

thoughtcriminal 13y ago
Okay, so I'm not alone on this. Trying to wring every last penny out of your customer with inflated prices just so you can brag about it on guest blog posts isn't cool. For those who do want to maxprice your product and jack your customers, at least don't go saying you care about the startup community. Actions speak louder than words.
- white_devil 13y ago
  I've found it annoying how he's milking his mailing list (that he got off of HN publicity) for all it's worth. He used to hit us with a sales pitch basically every day, now it's only every 5 - 9 days or so.
  - tnorthcutt 13y ago
    Would that be the opt-in mailing list? The one that he got off of HN publicity, by posting useful information on his site to share with other people?
    - white_devil 13y ago
      Yes, that would be the one. The fact that it was opt-in is not relevant to him using it way too aggressively.

toothlessjoe 13y ago

Or you can take a different tack, like this guy: http://arttrezzo.com/ebook_pricing.html http://arttrezzo.com/ebook_pricing.html

marcosdumay 13y ago
Some books appeal a million people, you can ask $1 for those, and be quite ok. Other books appeal a thousand people, if you get $1 from everybody that thinks about buying those, you'll get $1k at the bank.

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Felix21 13y ago

First of all, Nathan Barry is an excellent guy. Many people talk, he walks the walk... Now back to the matter: If you follow this strategy you must understand that this is not a method for long term ebook sales. You'll get a quick burst of cash and not much more after This isn't a bad thing, this is how this method works. That's why he has 3 books out in such a short period of time.... If you want long term sales, there is another more profitable way to do it (too long for me to explain here). Also, In some comments here, some people were complaining that the price was too high for a book. But he is not selling a BOOK; he's selling a proven system for making up to $100,000 with your own books. His mistake was framing "authority" as a book in his sales letter and that's why such problems arise.

willvarfar 13y ago
Please summarize the better way for long term sales
- Felix21 13y ago
  It works like this: I'll create the best book I possibly can and sell it for about 19.99. I still make a bit of money up front(less money than Nathan with this model... at the beginning) but a lot more sales because the book wont be perceived as "expensive" by any customer. The goal here is NOT to make as much money as possible, BUT to make as many sales as possible. Lets call my book The FRONT_END offer and the goal of the front end offer is just to get people into my marketing funnel. Next... I now have a massive list of customers and research shows that once people buy from you once, they are more likely to buy from you again... It is to this customer list that I will sell the videos, interviews and in my case, I'll add bootcamps, one-on-one consulting sessions etc... I'll call these the BACKEND_SALES. So, to summarise, you offer: 1. A low cost FRONT_END product to get people onto a customer list. 2. A long list of Higher ticket BACK_END products You'll be reducing the barrier to entry into your marketing funnel, and you'll build a large customer list that you can sell to for years... Over the course of the first year, you'll make significantly more this way(depending on your niche) than if you tried to make all that money up-front like this... I'll do some case-studies and interviews pretty soon with people who I've marketed for/with who have used this system with great success..

orangethirty 13y ago

Sometimes, I just wished people stopped trying to re-invent the wheel. All of this stuff is not new. It is covered in every DIY marketing book that has been published since the 70's. I don't get what is the fascination of trying to re-invent (or disrupt) marketing. No need for that. Just read a few books, take a structured approach to testing, and see the money roll in. Also, if you make a post complaining how the book is too expensive and you wont buy it, guess what? you are not the target market. The target market is always people who can and will pay for something. Not people who can and will complain about the price. Want to learn marketing? Start with the book Guerilla Marketing.

orangethirty 13y ago

Your sales funnel approach is deprecated. What is used now is called a sales ladder. Rather than have people pass through a funnel, you have them take steps towards purchase. Sounds to be the same, but it is quite different, and much more effective. Do some research on it.

boothead 13y ago
Do you have any links on sales ladder? I've always heard of it referred to as a funnel before.

jhonovich 13y ago

I paid $79 for the new 'Authority' release and am disappointed, more so because it's that expensive. I am sure he maximized revenue for the short term, but I am unlikely to buy anything else from him again.

BHSPitMonkey 13y ago

> I always ask myself, “If I were to double the price (from $0.99 to $1.99), would I lose more than half the sales?” This isn't very useful on its own; The arithmetic was never the hard part. Predicting your success is.