5 ms·

You're not insane, and I often wonder about how others can criticize someone for accepting such a colossal life-changing offer. If a company were offering me a

by kyro 13y ago

You're not insane, and I often wonder about how others can criticize someone for accepting such a colossal life-changing offer. If a company were offering me a billion (or $35 million) dollars for my startup provided I delete all user accounts and data and shut down the entire service forever, I'd still take that deal. People will moan about it for days, but a year out they'll have found some other service and I'll be driving around Rome in my r8 dressed as Da Vinci eating as much of the world's best pizza as my stomach can handle, for the rest of my life.

adsr 13y ago
I think this is especially true for a startup that makes little to no money, and where the users pay $0. If the users complain, just offer a refund. :)
jenius 13y ago
I think that depends on what your startup is. If it's some silly app solving a first world problem that will honestly be replaced by something else in a year, I couldn't agree with you more. On the other hand, if it's something that really matters, that you really care about, and your goal isn't to make money but to somehow change the world, I can't see anyone taking the same perspective. That being said, I haven't really seen any startups that do have a goal or mindset like this recently (other than perhaps watsi). That's a totally separate discussion, but still makes me sad.
- loganfrederick 13y ago
  I don't think this is correct. Google, which is world-changing, would have sold out if the prices being offered were higher. http://www.paulgraham.com/googles.html http://www.paulgraham.com/googles.html Additionally, most large, "world-changing" companies (GE, GM, ExxonMobil, etc.) are public, which is selling out to an extent (usually with good reasons, but it's still selling shares in the company).
- farmdawgnation 13y ago
  Your comment is based on the assumption that it's impossible for a founder to really care about a silly app that solves some first world problem. I think more to the crux of the issue here is what the founder wants to do. If they want to make a buck, then I doubt they'd ever regret the buyout. But if they have any emotional attachement at all, regardless of how silly or world-changing the actual product is... well, then whether or not you want to take the money is a valid question. I can't say for sure what I'd do in that situation, but I do know that the devil I know (me) is far better than the devil I don't (the company trying to purchase my company). I'd like to think that if I was still interested in the company I'd roll on along on my own. (If I wasn't, however, that's an entirely different story.)
  - jenius 13y ago
    Really good response, and you're totally right. I was applying my own personal bias to the comment, and that wasn't fair.
phuff 13y ago
For what it's worth, go further south to Naples for better pizza... :)
dman 13y ago
This puts very uncomfortable dynamics between users and startups. Done repetetively it could cause startup fatigue with end users.
johnrob 13y ago
Sounds like you're on the 'deferred life' plan. Drop the startup, get a job in Rome, and start enjoying the pizza. You can't have the fancy car, but you'd get bored of that in a month anyways.
- ryguytilidie 13y ago
  But as I alluded to, at that point, when you're bored, start something new with the new capital and connections you have.
  - justinlloyd 13y ago
    A truism of life: If you drive an R8 around, eat the best pizza you can and dress as Da Vinci, people will call you crazy and lock you up. If you drive an R8 around, eat the best pizza you can and dress as Da Vinci when you $35,000,000 in the bank, people pleasantly refer to you as eccentric and like having you around.
    - vinceguidry 13y ago
      Eccentrism is by no means the sole privilege of the rich. Emperor Norton was a famously broke, yet grandiose fellow who was beloved throughout the city of San Francisco in the late 1800s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton
      - justinlloyd 13y ago
        You can draw any line you like through a single data point. But you also kind of missed the original reference.
    - droopyEyelids 13y ago
      I suppose having my deferment rubbed in my face like that might rankle
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
mindcrime 13y ago
This is the same way I feel, or at least how I think I feel right now. I am absolutely passionate about Fogbeam Labs and what we're doing (applying social-networking, machine learning, semantic web, etc. to enterprise software to improve productivity, knowledge sharing, learning, etc.), BUT... if somebody offered me enough money to where I could legitimately walk away with "FU money" it would be damn hard to say no. I mean, if it was legitimately life-changing money, I could take the buyout, spend a year or two traveling, relaxing, exploring, enjoying the "good life" and looking for a six foot tall redheaded supermodel with a Scottish accent to be my girlfriend... and then, when I got bored with that, I'd have seed money for the next venture already in hand. OTOH, how do you see your baby? When you pour blood, sweat and tears into something to that point that it's basically your life, how can you just walk away from that with some cash? So I dunno... which is why I say I think I'd take the buyout, but I can't necessarily swear to it.
- ryguytilidie 13y ago
  Your response feels very real. You can do the things you want to do AND THEN start a company that is more in tune with what you want to do then versus when you started your old startup. Sure you don't have your old startup anymore, but you have something newer and more exciting.
  - chii 13y ago
    > Sure you don't have your old startup anymore, but you have something newer and more exciting. or with the newly found money, create a competitor to the startup you just sold! And this time, you don't need to sell out, because you already did on the previous one, and have FU money to truely realize your vision...
    - sk00byd00 13y ago
      That might be possible but a competent buyer will have you agree to a non-compete for a given amount of time (likely a couple years) before a sale is finalized.
anon808 13y ago
knowing that's how you feel, why would I (or anyone) use anything you make?
- anon808 13y ago
  Down vote all you want, I'd still like a rational answer.
  - obviouslygreen 13y ago
    The OP suggested 1 billion rational answers. Or 35 million. Or one of those values divided by whatever amount of money it'd take for you to live comfortably for the rest of your life. It's easy to condemn people for being realistic about their reaction to such a sum of money. Perhaps your scruples would prevent you from taking a massive payment to leave behind something you've created, but I think it's more likely you're trying to take a moral high ground that's not grounded in reality.
    - stonemetal 13y ago
      It is a rational decision by the founder, however grandparent asked from a users perspective. Not only do you have to factor in switching costs but also likely hood of needing to switch.
    - rhizome 13y ago
      I think you're missing the question. A billion or multimillion exit for a site operator is not a reason to use that site, which is what GP was asking about.
    - anon808 13y ago
      Not condemning anyone for wanting to sell, simply asking why would I choose to use any product this guy makes when he tells me he'd be willing to "delete all user accounts and data and shut down the entire service forever" if that were a condition of sale. How is that in my best interests as a product user?

by kyro 13y ago

adsr 13y ago

I think this is especially true for a startup that makes little to no money, and where the users pay $0. If the users complain, just offer a refund. :)

jenius 13y ago

I think that depends on what your startup is. If it's some silly app solving a first world problem that will honestly be replaced by something else in a year, I couldn't agree with you more. On the other hand, if it's something that really matters, that you really care about, and your goal isn't to make money but to somehow change the world, I can't see anyone taking the same perspective. That being said, I haven't really seen any startups that do have a goal or mindset like this recently (other than perhaps watsi). That's a totally separate discussion, but still makes me sad.

loganfrederick 13y ago
I don't think this is correct. Google, which is world-changing, would have sold out if the prices being offered were higher. http://www.paulgraham.com/googles.html http://www.paulgraham.com/googles.html Additionally, most large, "world-changing" companies (GE, GM, ExxonMobil, etc.) are public, which is selling out to an extent (usually with good reasons, but it's still selling shares in the company).
farmdawgnation 13y ago
Your comment is based on the assumption that it's impossible for a founder to really care about a silly app that solves some first world problem. I think more to the crux of the issue here is what the founder wants to do. If they want to make a buck, then I doubt they'd ever regret the buyout. But if they have any emotional attachement at all, regardless of how silly or world-changing the actual product is... well, then whether or not you want to take the money is a valid question. I can't say for sure what I'd do in that situation, but I do know that the devil I know (me) is far better than the devil I don't (the company trying to purchase my company). I'd like to think that if I was still interested in the company I'd roll on along on my own. (If I wasn't, however, that's an entirely different story.)
- jenius 13y ago
  Really good response, and you're totally right. I was applying my own personal bias to the comment, and that wasn't fair.

phuff 13y ago

For what it's worth, go further south to Naples for better pizza... :)

dman 13y ago

This puts very uncomfortable dynamics between users and startups. Done repetetively it could cause startup fatigue with end users.

johnrob 13y ago

Sounds like you're on the 'deferred life' plan. Drop the startup, get a job in Rome, and start enjoying the pizza. You can't have the fancy car, but you'd get bored of that in a month anyways.

ryguytilidie 13y ago
But as I alluded to, at that point, when you're bored, start something new with the new capital and connections you have.
- justinlloyd 13y ago
  A truism of life: If you drive an R8 around, eat the best pizza you can and dress as Da Vinci, people will call you crazy and lock you up. If you drive an R8 around, eat the best pizza you can and dress as Da Vinci when you $35,000,000 in the bank, people pleasantly refer to you as eccentric and like having you around.
  - vinceguidry 13y ago
    Eccentrism is by no means the sole privilege of the rich. Emperor Norton was a famously broke, yet grandiose fellow who was beloved throughout the city of San Francisco in the late 1800s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton
    - justinlloyd 13y ago
      You can draw any line you like through a single data point. But you also kind of missed the original reference.
  - droopyEyelids 13y ago
    I suppose having my deferment rubbed in my face like that might rankle
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

mindcrime 13y ago

This is the same way I feel, or at least how I think I feel right now. I am absolutely passionate about Fogbeam Labs and what we're doing (applying social-networking, machine learning, semantic web, etc. to enterprise software to improve productivity, knowledge sharing, learning, etc.), BUT... if somebody offered me enough money to where I could legitimately walk away with "FU money" it would be damn hard to say no. I mean, if it was legitimately life-changing money, I could take the buyout, spend a year or two traveling, relaxing, exploring, enjoying the "good life" and looking for a six foot tall redheaded supermodel with a Scottish accent to be my girlfriend... and then, when I got bored with that, I'd have seed money for the next venture already in hand. OTOH, how do you see your baby? When you pour blood, sweat and tears into something to that point that it's basically your life, how can you just walk away from that with some cash? So I dunno... which is why I say I think I'd take the buyout, but I can't necessarily swear to it.

ryguytilidie 13y ago
Your response feels very real. You can do the things you want to do AND THEN start a company that is more in tune with what you want to do then versus when you started your old startup. Sure you don't have your old startup anymore, but you have something newer and more exciting.
- chii 13y ago
  > Sure you don't have your old startup anymore, but you have something newer and more exciting. or with the newly found money, create a competitor to the startup you just sold! And this time, you don't need to sell out, because you already did on the previous one, and have FU money to truely realize your vision...
  - sk00byd00 13y ago
    That might be possible but a competent buyer will have you agree to a non-compete for a given amount of time (likely a couple years) before a sale is finalized.

anon808 13y ago

knowing that's how you feel, why would I (or anyone) use anything you make?

anon808 13y ago
Down vote all you want, I'd still like a rational answer.
- obviouslygreen 13y ago
  The OP suggested 1 billion rational answers. Or 35 million. Or one of those values divided by whatever amount of money it'd take for you to live comfortably for the rest of your life. It's easy to condemn people for being realistic about their reaction to such a sum of money. Perhaps your scruples would prevent you from taking a massive payment to leave behind something you've created, but I think it's more likely you're trying to take a moral high ground that's not grounded in reality.
  - stonemetal 13y ago
    It is a rational decision by the founder, however grandparent asked from a users perspective. Not only do you have to factor in switching costs but also likely hood of needing to switch.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    I think you're missing the question. A billion or multimillion exit for a site operator is not a reason to use that site, which is what GP was asking about.
  - anon808 13y ago
    Not condemning anyone for wanting to sell, simply asking why would I choose to use any product this guy makes when he tells me he'd be willing to "delete all user accounts and data and shut down the entire service forever" if that were a condition of sale. How is that in my best interests as a product user?