8 ms·

Would you use PhoneGap again?

59 points by grobmeier 13y ago

smanuel 13y ago
I'm using PhoneGap and I'll use it again. Yes, a PhoneGap app may never run as smoothly as a native app but I'm not ready to sacrifice the advantages that PhoneGap approach brings: - Using HTML/JS/CSS for all platforms - I can strip all PhoneGap related calls from my app and have a mobile web app (which can run as a full screen web app) And there're various tips and tricks to help you achieve almost native experience with PG (http://coenraets.org/blog/2013/05/top-10-performance-techniques-for-phonegap-applications/ http://coenraets.org/blog/2013/05/top-10-performance-techniq...). Imagine doing this in: - ObjectiveC for iOS - Java for Andriod - C# for WP - HTML/JS/CSS for having a mobile web app Sacrificing some performance suddenly starts making sense.
bdfh42 13y ago
Yes - I ran a trial a while back to see just how difficult it would be to get a common HTML/CSS/JavaScript set to work across iOS and Android browser variants for a non trivial graphical app. [It was quite difficult - much simpler to write 2 variants - but that was why I ran the trial]. Using PhoneGap the trial app is doing well as a free download in the Google Play Store and the Apple AppStore.
kayoone 13y ago
instead of relying on HTML5 as your base tech stack for mobile apps i am much more a fan of approaches like xamarin (http://xamarin.com/ http://xamarin.com/) Basically you write the core of your app in C# and then use the bindings to the native SDKs of iOS, Android, WP to build real native UIs on top of it. Its a bit more work and you need to learn C# (which is awesome) but imo its an optimal compromise between speed of development/maintainability and the resulting user experience.
- LordIllidan 13y ago
  I have used Xamarin recently - while I absolutely loved developing an iPhone app in C#, it was a bit frustrating to see that all the best 3rd party libraries, tutorials, etc for iOS are all in objective c - and some concepts didn't seem to translate easily to C#. It was my first iPhone app, so I could be mistaken - but I think I'll go down the native route in future.
  - danabramov 13y ago
    In my experience, it's fairly trivial to create a library binding so you can use ObjC library in C#. They even released a tool that generates bindings by header files, called ObjectiveSharpie.
    - LordIllidan 13y ago
      Yes and I've used it twice - the problem is that all the documentation you'll find naturally uses objective-c code - which you have to understand anyway to get it translated to c#.
- goofygrin 13y ago
  Xamarin is wicked expensive...
- RyanZAG 13y ago
  I think it's important to note that Xamarin is closed, and you are tying yourself to a third party platform that is outside of your control - and possibly outside of your best interests. You may decide that it's a fair trade off, but it's very important to understand and acknowledge that there are many externalities involved in this decision that may cause you trouble in future. There is a reason OSS is so highly prized...
mackon 13y ago
That's why Titanium rocks - one cross-platform codebase in JS, native UI controls, no interface lags.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  It was pretty damned buggy when I built an app in it a year ago, to the point where it felt like a way to drive you to their paid support.
  - quahada 13y ago
    I'm using Titanium for my app. Some things are still a little buggy, but it's a lot better now. It is open source, so I am modding the SDK to fix the bugs I have.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
BigBalli 13y ago
Yes, definitely, unless we're talking about a very specific kind of apps. PhoneGap is perfect for most apps out there even if only deployed to one platform. I can code in both and can guarantee that setting up the same view takes 5x more time in ObjC than HTML (PhoneGap). However, if you're looking at games or highsecuritt apps, you shouldn't even "try" with PG. I think the author is spreading some erroneous information. - the delay in tapping is only because he doesn't know how to properly make webapps (ie using clicks rather than touch). - you do not "need" frameworks. only if you don't know how to do things yourself.
Egregore 13y ago
The best experience in developing cross platform games I had with Haxe+Nme, the aproach works and the speed is native. Also it's free and open source.
peteforde 13y ago
Irony: the author's blog renders poorly on mobile Safari, due to unfortunate floating interface elements.
- grobmeier 13y ago
  Several people told me, I am going to fix this issue. It's akward. Thanks!
talhakhan720 13y ago
Check out http://www.icenium.com/ http://www.icenium.com/ by Telerik. They just recently added support for Sitefinity CMS using Icenium as well.
- spo81rty 13y ago
  For people who want to use Phonegap I highly recommend looking at icenium.
- snaky 13y ago
  In-browser IDE for PhoneGap with build in cloud?
ahaproudowl 13y ago
Old arguments, yes there are problems. People are solving them beautifully. See http://famo.us http://famo.us
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- grobmeier 13y ago
  Why do you think a landing page solves my problems?
sunsu 13y ago
The author's comment that "Sencha does also come with a Look & Feel, but again, it’s the Sencha Look & Feel, not the Android or iPhone one" is false and also is, imo, a silly reason not to use Sencha. Sencha is entirely themeable and it even comes with iOS and Android themes that you can easily enable. Sencha does, however, have a steep learning curve. I think thats probably why the author didn't dive into it deep enough to grok the themes.
- grobmeier 13y ago
  As I mentioned, I am not a Sencha expert. I experienced the stepp learning curve you mentioned and didn't like what I see from the examples. So I decided to not step so deep into it. Also I got recommendations from people I trust to not use Sencha because of its complexity. I cannot say anything about that, so I left it out in the post.
gonewest 13y ago
Is learning objc really so difficult compared to learning all the obscure things you have to do to make a native-like html5 app?
- slieberman87 13y ago
  In my experience, no. I would recommend to almost anybody to just learn objc if you want to build a native iOS app.
- jack9 13y ago
  It's not just learning objc. You need to learn objc, ios and android. It's far more effort to learn them AND all their compatibility bugs and workarounds, even if you don't know javascript. This trolling article, about PhoneGap not doing everything for you is really hard to understand. PG is a wrapper for an existing, complete, javascript application. Literally a single build step that's agnostic. Of course it's not a framework...wait, http://hessian.caucho.com/ http://hessian.caucho.com/ doesn't do everything for me, in terms of organizing my java project, either? No it doesn't you idiot.
- zerr 13y ago
  No, it's about avoiding iOS SDK. The objc language itself is one of the easiest [but not quite, entirely ugly] language I've encountered. Being cross-platoform/mobile pays as well.
- marknutter 13y ago
  It's not just learning objective-c, obviously, it's learning that along with Java, .Net, etc.
- ofacup 13y ago
  this may come as a surprise, but objective c only runs on ios
- zackmorris 13y ago
  Learning objc isn't too bad but it introduced a lot of (in my mind) unnecessary complexity because now you have two code paths (message passing vs. ordinary functions). It's quite a verbose language so you have to declare member variables several times, and ARC has drawbacks over garbage collection so it's not always clear when something should be declared strong or weak, making it nearly impossible to prove that an app is free of leaks in low memory conditions. Apple's iOS frameworks have a lot of trouble with inheritance, so you might have code that works with regular buttons but can't work with toolbar buttons for example, because they don't share a root class. So I generally find iOS development to be remarkably complex and tedious for even the simplest GUI elements, especially if you are trying to do something beyond the vanilla layouts that Apple has in mind. You also really can't develop for iOS without Stack Overflow, which to me is a red flag for any API. Xcode has numerous bugs, especially with XML, so you may find that some change you made to a .xib file is not revertible because of a caching issue, and when you examine the XML you see that something was named slightly differently, so you have to be diligent with your version control and snapshots. Apple is unable or unwilling to acknowledge many of these problems, much less solve them, so I constantly fight against issues that I thought would have been fixed by iOS 6. I think out of every API I've learned, iOS is the hardest, not because of conceptual problems (their threading system is actually fairly good) but because of poor implementation choices where Apple omitted something for political reasons so you have to reinvent the wheel. What we really need is a cross platform middleware that provides a consistent event system and API like win32 for all platforms, and then someone could write language hooks for that in javascript, lua, ruby, whatever. Without that middle layer, it's too constraining to work with pure html5 IMHO. I've only touched the tip of the iceberg here - there are so many hurdles to even getting an app published natively that I think making a cross platform app is still an open problem.
spo81rty 13y ago
Another option is Rarewire. They have a way to write native apps once. Check it out. We are using it to write a simple app with some good success.
hawkharris 13y ago
Thanks for sharing this, Christian. Reading about your research and experience makes me want to give Cordova a try. I'd also like to offer a small piece of feedback concerning your first paragraph, where you wrote "more worse": http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Worse-and-Worst http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Worse-and-Worst This is a minor thing that doesn't take away from your well-researched post in any way. I'm only taking the time to point it out because I enjoyed your writing, and I think all writers can benefit from a little feedback.
- grobmeier 13y ago
  Thank you. As a non-native speaker I often struggle with the english language and gladly take any hints to improve my writing. Have fun with Cordova, it's worth trying.
  - hawkharris 13y ago
    No problem, and thanks again for sharing the research. :) As a native English speaker who is struggling to learn a second language, I can relate and appreciate how tough it is to remember those weird quirks. (Not to mention that English is especially quirky.)
gisenberg 13y ago
I've had pretty extensive experience with PhoneGap targeting iOS, Android, WP7 and WP8, and would neither recommend it or use it again. This isn't so much a commentary on PhoneGap as much as it is HTML5 as an application platform. The bar for an application tends to be much higher than a web page; a fantastic web page may be pretty shit when compared against the app bar. Users have fundamentally different expectations around responsiveness, interaction and fluidity for an app that they had to go install as opposed to a site they visited. Apps demands certain responsiveness, and replicating that behavior in HTML is exceptionally difficult and leaves the user with a bunch of UI behaviors that are close, but not quite right. Fluidity in user interactions, specific scrolling behaviors and so on that are exceptionally difficult to replicate across platforms. A browser is also a pretty leaky abstraction. Targeting an API level in Android guarantees a specific set of behavior and functionality, but targeting a browser offers no such guarantees. The Samsung Galaxy S2 has a modified fork of Webkit that provides device-specific app problems within the same versions of Android, which make releasing a quality product pretty difficult to guarantee. And, of course, different screen dimensions are a problem. Android devices can range from variable aspect ratios with a minimum width of 240px all the way up to 1280px. Responsive design is a bit of magic that can be sprinkled on to help make things work better, but that's a substantial bit of effort relative to using the native UI tools for each individual platform. edit: Another challenge with PhoneGap applications is targetting iOS. HIG without designer assistance is a challenge, and this particular gem in the iOS approval guidelines is somewhat damning: 2.12 Apps that are not very useful, unique, are simply web sites bundled as Apps, or do not provide any lasting entertainment value may be rejected.
- mcgwiz 13y ago
  Very interesting. So it sounds like the problem is effecting a native experience with HTML5 (something, notably, that Windows 8 gives first-class support to). So then, given the HTML5 expertise and attention to detail, would you recommend PhoneGap? Or would you still advocate separate, native efforts? (Or something else?) Also, do you really think adding media queries to the stylesheet(s) is "substantial relative to native tools"? Taken holistically, I would think that when you're targeting multiple platforms, you expend much greater effort building natively for each platform. Using those native UI tools to provide a good experience for variable aspect ratios actually entails knowledge of different languages, build tools, runtimes, standard libraries, third-pary library ecosystem, and best practices related to all the above.
thekingshorses 13y ago
Yes, I would. Most people don't realize, but most good native apps (not games) are only available on one platform. Only big companies and funded startups has apps on all platforms that are good. Also, major problem with Phonegap is jQuery mobile and similar frameworks. they are heavy and makes app sluggish. Android specially chrome browser is another major problem. Despite all that, you can still create a very good app that performs well on all platforms. I wrote this hacker news HTML5 app mainly for trial run to see if it is comparable to native apps. I only developed and tested on mobile chrome, ios and desktop browsers. r/windowsphone redditors told me it works pretty good on WP8 too. http://hn.premii.com http://hn.premii.com What I have learned? - Android (chrome too), Firefox and Window Phone 8 - they need to provide better support for overflow scrolling. - iOS - Remove 300ms delay for click for mobile apps - WP8 - You can't fucking embed fonts in your phonegap app. It has to be hosted on remote server. Also you can't have ? in local urls (files that you are loading locally). It won't load those files.
- robocat 13y ago
  Have you tried embedding fonts on WP8 using a data url? Apparently it works: "I was able to get my font/icon set to be recognized by Windows Phone 8 using base64. Make sure you use WOFF and TTF fonts as follows (where * are the long base64 strings):" {{{<code> @font-face { font-family: 'icomoon-ac'; src: url(data:application/x-font-woff;charset=utf-8;base64,* * ) format('woff'), url(data:application/x-font-ttf;charset=utf-8;base64, * *) format('truetype'); font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; } </code>}}} http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15819717/font-awesome-not-displayed-on-windows-phone-8 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15819717/font-awesome-not...
  - thekingshorses 13y ago
    I saw that yesterday. It doesn't work for me. I am also using icomoon. I copied font to HTML file and also remove other fonts, but I couldn't get to work. Same guy stated in other comment that only icomoon working for him. I am also including another font, and since that won't work, I am just gonna load everything from remote server.
ergo14 13y ago
I don't have experience with Phonegap. But jquery mobile was mentioned in the article and it's lack of "native" look. If someone is interested in developing mobile apps using JS framework I would like to suggest dojox.mobile from dojotoolkit, it DOES have native themes ios,android 2.3, android 4.x holo (and maybe more), iv'e built a big mobile app with it and it worked like a charm - it's used directly + some of the app views are used in our native app(yeah we have that too) - to speed up development. https://dojotoolkit.org/features/mobile https://dojotoolkit.org/features/mobile
madmaw 13y ago
Would I use PhoneGap again? Maybe. In my experience PhoneGap doesn't bring much to the table. The core UI element (a thin wrapper around the native WebView) is easily replicated in less than 100 lines of code. The plugins I used were very inconsistent between Android and iOS, so in the end I spent a lot of time either wrapping them in JavaScript to make them consistent, or (re)implementing missing plugins on one platform or another (or both where they were substandard). Yeah, it lowers the barrier to entry if you are a web developer looking to wrap your web site up as a native app, but if you have even basic skills in your target platform(s) it's very easy to replicate its functionality and you get finer control over how it starts up (which was an issue for one app I made) and your distribution file will be much smaller. Would I use HTML5 to create hybrid apps again? For the right project, absolutely. I think other people have mentioned that there's currently no "one size fits all" solution on mobile, and JavaScript frameworks, associated tooling, and mobile browsers are definitely still in their infancy when it comes to building full-blown client-side HTML5 applications. This is one space where things are happening incredibly quickly, and even with what's available today(1), you can get acceptable results. For a small-medium sized business that simply doesn't have the money to develop and maintain applications targeting every platform (including web) hybrid development is a very appealing option. (1) disclaimer: after some investigation of Backbone/Angular I was unimpressed with their ASP/JSP on the client model and rolled my own MVC framework, but literally millions would say I was wrong to do so
soemarko 13y ago
> It’s the details which eat up your budget. The article hit that spot on. You'll spend more time getting the swipeable cell to bounce and swing correctly than working on the app. It'll be "cheaper" to work with someone who knows the native language. You could learn one of the native language and see if the app sells before jumping to another platform. The bigger problem, IMHO, is that these sort of abstractions, like PhoneGap and Appcelerator (maybe Xamarin too? I don't have any experiences with Xamarin), most of the time will left you clueless when the app crashes.

59 points by grobmeier 13y ago

I'm using PhoneGap and I'll use it again. Yes, a PhoneGap app may never run as smoothly as a native app but I'm not ready to sacrifice the advantages that PhoneGap approach brings: - Using HTML/JS/CSS for all platforms - I can strip all PhoneGap related calls from my app and have a mobile web app (which can run as a full screen web app) And there're various tips and tricks to help you achieve almost native experience with PG (http://coenraets.org/blog/2013/05/top-10-performance-techniques-for-phonegap-applications/ http://coenraets.org/blog/2013/05/top-10-performance-techniq...). Imagine doing this in: - ObjectiveC for iOS - Java for Andriod - C# for WP - HTML/JS/CSS for having a mobile web app Sacrificing some performance suddenly starts making sense.

bdfh42 13y ago

Yes - I ran a trial a while back to see just how difficult it would be to get a common HTML/CSS/JavaScript set to work across iOS and Android browser variants for a non trivial graphical app. [It was quite difficult - much simpler to write 2 variants - but that was why I ran the trial]. Using PhoneGap the trial app is doing well as a free download in the Google Play Store and the Apple AppStore.

kayoone 13y ago

instead of relying on HTML5 as your base tech stack for mobile apps i am much more a fan of approaches like xamarin (http://xamarin.com/ http://xamarin.com/) Basically you write the core of your app in C# and then use the bindings to the native SDKs of iOS, Android, WP to build real native UIs on top of it. Its a bit more work and you need to learn C# (which is awesome) but imo its an optimal compromise between speed of development/maintainability and the resulting user experience.

LordIllidan 13y ago
I have used Xamarin recently - while I absolutely loved developing an iPhone app in C#, it was a bit frustrating to see that all the best 3rd party libraries, tutorials, etc for iOS are all in objective c - and some concepts didn't seem to translate easily to C#. It was my first iPhone app, so I could be mistaken - but I think I'll go down the native route in future.
- danabramov 13y ago
  In my experience, it's fairly trivial to create a library binding so you can use ObjC library in C#. They even released a tool that generates bindings by header files, called ObjectiveSharpie.
  - LordIllidan 13y ago
    Yes and I've used it twice - the problem is that all the documentation you'll find naturally uses objective-c code - which you have to understand anyway to get it translated to c#.
goofygrin 13y ago
Xamarin is wicked expensive...
RyanZAG 13y ago
I think it's important to note that Xamarin is closed, and you are tying yourself to a third party platform that is outside of your control - and possibly outside of your best interests. You may decide that it's a fair trade off, but it's very important to understand and acknowledge that there are many externalities involved in this decision that may cause you trouble in future. There is a reason OSS is so highly prized...

mackon 13y ago

That's why Titanium rocks - one cross-platform codebase in JS, native UI controls, no interface lags.

ceejayoz 13y ago
It was pretty damned buggy when I built an app in it a year ago, to the point where it felt like a way to drive you to their paid support.
- quahada 13y ago
  I'm using Titanium for my app. Some things are still a little buggy, but it's a lot better now. It is open source, so I am modding the SDK to fix the bugs I have.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

BigBalli 13y ago

Yes, definitely, unless we're talking about a very specific kind of apps. PhoneGap is perfect for most apps out there even if only deployed to one platform. I can code in both and can guarantee that setting up the same view takes 5x more time in ObjC than HTML (PhoneGap). However, if you're looking at games or highsecuritt apps, you shouldn't even "try" with PG. I think the author is spreading some erroneous information. - the delay in tapping is only because he doesn't know how to properly make webapps (ie using clicks rather than touch). - you do not "need" frameworks. only if you don't know how to do things yourself.

Egregore 13y ago

The best experience in developing cross platform games I had with Haxe+Nme, the aproach works and the speed is native. Also it's free and open source.

peteforde 13y ago

Irony: the author's blog renders poorly on mobile Safari, due to unfortunate floating interface elements.

grobmeier 13y ago
Several people told me, I am going to fix this issue. It's akward. Thanks!

talhakhan720 13y ago

Check out http://www.icenium.com/ http://www.icenium.com/ by Telerik. They just recently added support for Sitefinity CMS using Icenium as well.

spo81rty 13y ago
For people who want to use Phonegap I highly recommend looking at icenium.
snaky 13y ago
In-browser IDE for PhoneGap with build in cloud?

ahaproudowl 13y ago

Old arguments, yes there are problems. People are solving them beautifully. See http://famo.us http://famo.us

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
grobmeier 13y ago
Why do you think a landing page solves my problems?

sunsu 13y ago

The author's comment that "Sencha does also come with a Look & Feel, but again, it’s the Sencha Look & Feel, not the Android or iPhone one" is false and also is, imo, a silly reason not to use Sencha. Sencha is entirely themeable and it even comes with iOS and Android themes that you can easily enable. Sencha does, however, have a steep learning curve. I think thats probably why the author didn't dive into it deep enough to grok the themes.

grobmeier 13y ago
As I mentioned, I am not a Sencha expert. I experienced the stepp learning curve you mentioned and didn't like what I see from the examples. So I decided to not step so deep into it. Also I got recommendations from people I trust to not use Sencha because of its complexity. I cannot say anything about that, so I left it out in the post.

gonewest 13y ago

Is learning objc really so difficult compared to learning all the obscure things you have to do to make a native-like html5 app?

slieberman87 13y ago
In my experience, no. I would recommend to almost anybody to just learn objc if you want to build a native iOS app.
jack9 13y ago
It's not just learning objc. You need to learn objc, ios and android. It's far more effort to learn them AND all their compatibility bugs and workarounds, even if you don't know javascript. This trolling article, about PhoneGap not doing everything for you is really hard to understand. PG is a wrapper for an existing, complete, javascript application. Literally a single build step that's agnostic. Of course it's not a framework...wait, http://hessian.caucho.com/ http://hessian.caucho.com/ doesn't do everything for me, in terms of organizing my java project, either? No it doesn't you idiot.
zerr 13y ago
No, it's about avoiding iOS SDK. The objc language itself is one of the easiest [but not quite, entirely ugly] language I've encountered. Being cross-platoform/mobile pays as well.
marknutter 13y ago
It's not just learning objective-c, obviously, it's learning that along with Java, .Net, etc.
ofacup 13y ago
this may come as a surprise, but objective c only runs on ios
zackmorris 13y ago
Learning objc isn't too bad but it introduced a lot of (in my mind) unnecessary complexity because now you have two code paths (message passing vs. ordinary functions). It's quite a verbose language so you have to declare member variables several times, and ARC has drawbacks over garbage collection so it's not always clear when something should be declared strong or weak, making it nearly impossible to prove that an app is free of leaks in low memory conditions. Apple's iOS frameworks have a lot of trouble with inheritance, so you might have code that works with regular buttons but can't work with toolbar buttons for example, because they don't share a root class. So I generally find iOS development to be remarkably complex and tedious for even the simplest GUI elements, especially if you are trying to do something beyond the vanilla layouts that Apple has in mind. You also really can't develop for iOS without Stack Overflow, which to me is a red flag for any API. Xcode has numerous bugs, especially with XML, so you may find that some change you made to a .xib file is not revertible because of a caching issue, and when you examine the XML you see that something was named slightly differently, so you have to be diligent with your version control and snapshots. Apple is unable or unwilling to acknowledge many of these problems, much less solve them, so I constantly fight against issues that I thought would have been fixed by iOS 6. I think out of every API I've learned, iOS is the hardest, not because of conceptual problems (their threading system is actually fairly good) but because of poor implementation choices where Apple omitted something for political reasons so you have to reinvent the wheel. What we really need is a cross platform middleware that provides a consistent event system and API like win32 for all platforms, and then someone could write language hooks for that in javascript, lua, ruby, whatever. Without that middle layer, it's too constraining to work with pure html5 IMHO. I've only touched the tip of the iceberg here - there are so many hurdles to even getting an app published natively that I think making a cross platform app is still an open problem.

spo81rty 13y ago

Another option is Rarewire. They have a way to write native apps once. Check it out. We are using it to write a simple app with some good success.

hawkharris 13y ago

Thanks for sharing this, Christian. Reading about your research and experience makes me want to give Cordova a try. I'd also like to offer a small piece of feedback concerning your first paragraph, where you wrote "more worse": http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Worse-and-Worst http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Worse-and-Worst This is a minor thing that doesn't take away from your well-researched post in any way. I'm only taking the time to point it out because I enjoyed your writing, and I think all writers can benefit from a little feedback.

grobmeier 13y ago
Thank you. As a non-native speaker I often struggle with the english language and gladly take any hints to improve my writing. Have fun with Cordova, it's worth trying.
- hawkharris 13y ago
  No problem, and thanks again for sharing the research. :) As a native English speaker who is struggling to learn a second language, I can relate and appreciate how tough it is to remember those weird quirks. (Not to mention that English is especially quirky.)

gisenberg 13y ago

I've had pretty extensive experience with PhoneGap targeting iOS, Android, WP7 and WP8, and would neither recommend it or use it again. This isn't so much a commentary on PhoneGap as much as it is HTML5 as an application platform. The bar for an application tends to be much higher than a web page; a fantastic web page may be pretty shit when compared against the app bar. Users have fundamentally different expectations around responsiveness, interaction and fluidity for an app that they had to go install as opposed to a site they visited. Apps demands certain responsiveness, and replicating that behavior in HTML is exceptionally difficult and leaves the user with a bunch of UI behaviors that are close, but not quite right. Fluidity in user interactions, specific scrolling behaviors and so on that are exceptionally difficult to replicate across platforms. A browser is also a pretty leaky abstraction. Targeting an API level in Android guarantees a specific set of behavior and functionality, but targeting a browser offers no such guarantees. The Samsung Galaxy S2 has a modified fork of Webkit that provides device-specific app problems within the same versions of Android, which make releasing a quality product pretty difficult to guarantee. And, of course, different screen dimensions are a problem. Android devices can range from variable aspect ratios with a minimum width of 240px all the way up to 1280px. Responsive design is a bit of magic that can be sprinkled on to help make things work better, but that's a substantial bit of effort relative to using the native UI tools for each individual platform. edit: Another challenge with PhoneGap applications is targetting iOS. HIG without designer assistance is a challenge, and this particular gem in the iOS approval guidelines is somewhat damning: 2.12 Apps that are not very useful, unique, are simply web sites bundled as Apps, or do not provide any lasting entertainment value may be rejected.

mcgwiz 13y ago
Very interesting. So it sounds like the problem is effecting a native experience with HTML5 (something, notably, that Windows 8 gives first-class support to). So then, given the HTML5 expertise and attention to detail, would you recommend PhoneGap? Or would you still advocate separate, native efforts? (Or something else?) Also, do you really think adding media queries to the stylesheet(s) is "substantial relative to native tools"? Taken holistically, I would think that when you're targeting multiple platforms, you expend much greater effort building natively for each platform. Using those native UI tools to provide a good experience for variable aspect ratios actually entails knowledge of different languages, build tools, runtimes, standard libraries, third-pary library ecosystem, and best practices related to all the above.

thekingshorses 13y ago

Yes, I would. Most people don't realize, but most good native apps (not games) are only available on one platform. Only big companies and funded startups has apps on all platforms that are good. Also, major problem with Phonegap is jQuery mobile and similar frameworks. they are heavy and makes app sluggish. Android specially chrome browser is another major problem. Despite all that, you can still create a very good app that performs well on all platforms. I wrote this hacker news HTML5 app mainly for trial run to see if it is comparable to native apps. I only developed and tested on mobile chrome, ios and desktop browsers. r/windowsphone redditors told me it works pretty good on WP8 too. http://hn.premii.com http://hn.premii.com What I have learned? - Android (chrome too), Firefox and Window Phone 8 - they need to provide better support for overflow scrolling. - iOS - Remove 300ms delay for click for mobile apps - WP8 - You can't fucking embed fonts in your phonegap app. It has to be hosted on remote server. Also you can't have ? in local urls (files that you are loading locally). It won't load those files.

robocat 13y ago
Have you tried embedding fonts on WP8 using a data url? Apparently it works: "I was able to get my font/icon set to be recognized by Windows Phone 8 using base64. Make sure you use WOFF and TTF fonts as follows (where * are the long base64 strings):" {{{<code> @font-face { font-family: 'icomoon-ac'; src: url(data:application/x-font-woff;charset=utf-8;base64,* * ) format('woff'), url(data:application/x-font-ttf;charset=utf-8;base64, * *) format('truetype'); font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; } </code>}}} http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15819717/font-awesome-not-displayed-on-windows-phone-8 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15819717/font-awesome-not...
- thekingshorses 13y ago
  I saw that yesterday. It doesn't work for me. I am also using icomoon. I copied font to HTML file and also remove other fonts, but I couldn't get to work. Same guy stated in other comment that only icomoon working for him. I am also including another font, and since that won't work, I am just gonna load everything from remote server.

ergo14 13y ago

I don't have experience with Phonegap. But jquery mobile was mentioned in the article and it's lack of "native" look. If someone is interested in developing mobile apps using JS framework I would like to suggest dojox.mobile from dojotoolkit, it DOES have native themes ios,android 2.3, android 4.x holo (and maybe more), iv'e built a big mobile app with it and it worked like a charm - it's used directly + some of the app views are used in our native app(yeah we have that too) - to speed up development. https://dojotoolkit.org/features/mobile https://dojotoolkit.org/features/mobile

madmaw 13y ago

Would I use PhoneGap again? Maybe. In my experience PhoneGap doesn't bring much to the table. The core UI element (a thin wrapper around the native WebView) is easily replicated in less than 100 lines of code. The plugins I used were very inconsistent between Android and iOS, so in the end I spent a lot of time either wrapping them in JavaScript to make them consistent, or (re)implementing missing plugins on one platform or another (or both where they were substandard). Yeah, it lowers the barrier to entry if you are a web developer looking to wrap your web site up as a native app, but if you have even basic skills in your target platform(s) it's very easy to replicate its functionality and you get finer control over how it starts up (which was an issue for one app I made) and your distribution file will be much smaller. Would I use HTML5 to create hybrid apps again? For the right project, absolutely. I think other people have mentioned that there's currently no "one size fits all" solution on mobile, and JavaScript frameworks, associated tooling, and mobile browsers are definitely still in their infancy when it comes to building full-blown client-side HTML5 applications. This is one space where things are happening incredibly quickly, and even with what's available today(1), you can get acceptable results. For a small-medium sized business that simply doesn't have the money to develop and maintain applications targeting every platform (including web) hybrid development is a very appealing option. (1) disclaimer: after some investigation of Backbone/Angular I was unimpressed with their ASP/JSP on the client model and rolled my own MVC framework, but literally millions would say I was wrong to do so

soemarko 13y ago

> It’s the details which eat up your budget. The article hit that spot on. You'll spend more time getting the swipeable cell to bounce and swing correctly than working on the app. It'll be "cheaper" to work with someone who knows the native language. You could learn one of the native language and see if the app sells before jumping to another platform. The bigger problem, IMHO, is that these sort of abstractions, like PhoneGap and Appcelerator (maybe Xamarin too? I don't have any experiences with Xamarin), most of the time will left you clueless when the app crashes.