3 ms·

>Using the term "cult" is almost certainly a slam Hyperbole is a far cry from "a slam". >Who are "these" people? The ones writing articles like this one. >w

>Using the term "cult" is almost certainly a slam Hyperbole is a far cry from "a slam". >Who are "these" people? The ones writing articles like this one. >what studies are you referring to? http://theruntime.com/blogs/jacob/archive/2008/01/22/tdd-proven-effective-or-is-it.aspx http://theruntime.com/blogs/jacob/archive/2008/01/22/tdd-pro... >Finally, I'm not interesting in raving about design processes. But you are the only one doing so? The rest of the paragraph that follows that sentence for example. Most people do not have a religion they call a "design process".

kasey_junk 13y ago
You keep using religious "hyperbole" and it is making it hard for me to understand your perspective. So let me just ask a couple of direct questions that are easily answered using TDD. 1. How do you determine what is a "unit" that should be covered by a test? 2. How do you determine what a given method/function's responsibilities are? 3. How do you determine where to put a given method or function? 4. How do you get feedback on if your design decisions are correct? You've also yet to tell me what it is specifically that you don't like about TDD. I'm truly not trolling, I'm curious whenever anyone has such vitriol for a given software technique. As for the linked article (and the underlying primary research) criticizing TDD, I had read both of those before and I think they speak to a problem with the primary research more than addressing TDD in any significant way (that's not to say you couldn't design a study that did prove TDD was harmful). Finally, are you being ironic when you say that the original posted articles author is being cultish about TDD? The article specifically tells it's readers not to use TDD. I don't get how that is cultish.
- papsosouid 13y ago
  What are you reading? Because it is pretty clearly not what I wrote. How is "I wish TDD advocates would stop equating unit testing with TDD" vitriol? Dismissing the only actual evidence because it doesn't fit your beliefs is not reasonable. TDD advocates are the one making claims. Nobody said TDD is harmful, just that it has no benefits and that TDD does not equal unit testing. As for not thinking the article author is cultish, try reading the first paragraph. It is literally "TDD is everything, all hail TDD, TDD solves all problems" and is all completely baseless.
  - kasey_junk 13y ago
    I'm sorry that I read the assertions that you should always skip TDD and that it's proponents are all members of a wacky cult as calling TDD harmful. Clearly you intended to have the nuanced view that sometimes TDD is ok and sometimes you shouldn't use it. I guess I mistakenly read the author to say that when in fact you were the one with this point of view all along. My mistake.
    - papsosouid 13y ago
      I'm not sure how this is still unclear. Something having no benefit does not mean it is harmful. My pointing out that TDD has no benefits does not imply that I think it is harmful.

kasey_junk 13y ago

You keep using religious "hyperbole" and it is making it hard for me to understand your perspective. So let me just ask a couple of direct questions that are easily answered using TDD. 1. How do you determine what is a "unit" that should be covered by a test? 2. How do you determine what a given method/function's responsibilities are? 3. How do you determine where to put a given method or function? 4. How do you get feedback on if your design decisions are correct? You've also yet to tell me what it is specifically that you don't like about TDD. I'm truly not trolling, I'm curious whenever anyone has such vitriol for a given software technique. As for the linked article (and the underlying primary research) criticizing TDD, I had read both of those before and I think they speak to a problem with the primary research more than addressing TDD in any significant way (that's not to say you couldn't design a study that did prove TDD was harmful). Finally, are you being ironic when you say that the original posted articles author is being cultish about TDD? The article specifically tells it's readers not to use TDD. I don't get how that is cultish.

papsosouid 13y ago
What are you reading? Because it is pretty clearly not what I wrote. How is "I wish TDD advocates would stop equating unit testing with TDD" vitriol? Dismissing the only actual evidence because it doesn't fit your beliefs is not reasonable. TDD advocates are the one making claims. Nobody said TDD is harmful, just that it has no benefits and that TDD does not equal unit testing. As for not thinking the article author is cultish, try reading the first paragraph. It is literally "TDD is everything, all hail TDD, TDD solves all problems" and is all completely baseless.
- kasey_junk 13y ago
  I'm sorry that I read the assertions that you should always skip TDD and that it's proponents are all members of a wacky cult as calling TDD harmful. Clearly you intended to have the nuanced view that sometimes TDD is ok and sometimes you shouldn't use it. I guess I mistakenly read the author to say that when in fact you were the one with this point of view all along. My mistake.
  - papsosouid 13y ago
    I'm not sure how this is still unclear. Something having no benefit does not mean it is harmful. My pointing out that TDD has no benefits does not imply that I think it is harmful.