18 ms·

Kiera Wilmot, student who caused small explosion, won't face charges

366 points by shrikant 13y ago

mindcrime 13y ago
Finally, some good news today. And a victory for common sense. I, for one, am very happy about this news. But there's still the issue of her high-school education, to be resolved.
- SeanDav 13y ago
  She is already at a new high school. Looks like she will be ok. Now if only someone could charge the original instigating teachers and officials for wasting police time or even better, place them in an institute for the criminally stupid...
  - Anechoic 13y ago
    She is already at a new high school. The Orlando Sentinel story linked in the OP says she "is now attending classes at an alternative school." Is that "alternative" as in "another" or "alternative school" as in "remedial school geared toward at-risk youth"?
    - mindcrime 13y ago
      I took it as the latter. "Alternative school", in my experience, is a very specific term and not just a synonym for "another, different school".
  - whateverfor 13y ago
    No, she's been placed in an "alternative" school. That's not a place for learning, it's a place where the state sticks kids that have to be educated but aren't in prison at that moment, to keep them away from the normal system. The law says you can't just stay home and play video games all day just because you got expelled from your normal school, so they have to stick them somewhere. She might turn out OK, especially because she'll probably transfer to a normal school after this academic year, but this is still a travesty of justice.
gnht 13y ago
Americaaaaa
dickfickling 13y ago
While I don't think she ought to have been charged as a criminal, calling this "an unauthorized science experiment which lightly damaged an eight ounce plastic water bottle" is blatantly dishonest. As others have said in previous threads, this girl wasn't conducting a science experiment, she was blowing something up. People could have been injured (google drano bombs). Again, I don't condone legal action against her, but praising her as a scientist doesn't seem like the right course of action either. Edit: To be clear, I have no problem with explosions - 'for science' or otherwise. I have a problem with explosions on school property, unsanctioned by professors, and without proper (or any) safety equipment.
- mindcrime 13y ago
  As others have said in previous threads, this girl wasn't conducting a science experiment, she was blowing something up. Those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
  - weareconvo 13y ago
    True, but in this case, they were, because she was blowing something up... not conducting a science experiment. Which was the point of his post.
    - mindcrime 13y ago
      "Experiment" in this case has, I think, a somewhat fuzzy definition. From her perspective, calling it a "science experiment" probably makes perfect sense.
      - weareconvo 13y ago
        Yeah, maybe cooking meth is a science experiment too in a certain light.
  - readme 13y ago
    OK, well call it what it really is then: a science demonstration.
duncan_bayne 13y ago
I donated to her defense fund - assuming there's money left over, I hope they just give her the cash. I've sent a message to that effect to the person organising the fundraising.
- dnautics 13y ago
  I donated, too, I believe the plan from the start to convert it into an educational trust.
rhizome 13y ago
I wonder why it took weeks.
- davorak 13y ago
  Perhaps they waited for people to lose some interest in the story. Or to try and let cooler heads prevail.
guelo 13y ago
The assholes at the state attorney's office gave her a "diversion of prosecution" instead of completely dropping the matter. And the school district is still considering further disciplinary actions. The state attorney and the school district are the ones that should be expelled.
- itafroma 13y ago
  > The source article is a much more complete and informative story http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-ki.. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-ki.... Indeed. From that article, it's not an unconditional dropping of charges: > The office of State Attorney Jerry Hill, whose jurisdiction includes Polk, said that it extended "an offer of diversion of prosecution to the child." That typically means a probationary-like program that allows the youngster to perform community service or meet other conditions and then avoid a criminal record. > Brian Haas, an assistant state attorney and spokesman for the office, said he could not provide details of the diversion-program agreement reached in a juvenile's case. But he said the teenager and her guardian had signed the agreement.
droithomme 13y ago
The title of the article is incorrect, charges are not being dropped. Diversion is a plea bargain in which you plead guilty to the charges and receive probation. If you meet probation terms such as random drug testing and so forth, then your conviction record is "erased". Sometimes how this is handled procedurally is the signed guilty plea is held in a separate file and not entered into the main system, and at the end of diversion the file stays in the separate file if you have complied with all terms, or is entered into the main system if you haven't complied with all terms. Calling this "dropping charges" couldn't be further from the truth - this is a forced guilty plea. Since she "signed the agreement", the matter is over - she has admitted to charges and is legally guilty and has received probation, and that's the end of it.
- jellicle 13y ago
  Yep. So, she has pled guilty, been placed on probation, will have to comply with the probation terms, been kicked out of her high school and sent to another school for child-criminals where I'm sure the education will be absolutely stellar, and there's probably about a 50% chance that this criminal record will follow her around for the rest of her life (somehow, it seems that a lot of these supposedly-sealed convictions end up on adult criminal background checks). Job well done. One scientist eliminated from useful society.
  - tiredofcareer 13y ago
    Her first statement while being interviewed was that she was performing a science experiment. That story changed under interview, and she later admitted someone told her how and encouraged her to do it. The outpouring of support from renowned scientists and legal funds happily ignored that point, and stuck with the "science experiment" angle. So, no, this is not an anti-science campaign by the government, regardless of how really hard we want to believe that she's aspiring to science. These things will blind you and take limbs off if you mishandle them. They have blown up on police officers after being left in an alley because they didn't detonate when kids make them. Then they just leave them for other people to clean up. Even if you buy the science experiment angle, which she herself went back on, this is a safety issue from the completely reckless way in which she performed a "science experiment", similar to detonating a pipe bomb on school property just to see what happens. Oh, how the narrative would be different if she had built a pipe bomb instead. Honestly, guys, we have this one wrong. Here's several other cases for your consideration, showing how big this problem is (the reason arrests are picking up is because LEOs are communicating about this, now that kids are starting to do it more): http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_pointe_woods_police_war.html http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_p... http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=9104036 http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=... (from TODAY) http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-explosives-found-in-Sun-Valley-205869081.html http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-expl... http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bottle-bombs-205342311.html http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bo... http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-to-schools-in-novato/nD7xh/ http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-t... This is a serious problem, not an opportunity to "win another scientist," and the narrative around this case has been disgusting. Reckless behavior and endangering yourself and others intentionally is not the hallmark of a scientist, no matter how much you want the science angle to be true.
danso 13y ago
I know that in this unfair world, we should be happy enough that her life has been spared and that she can live the life of an average teen, whether it's in science or not. But in my Hollywood version of life, this day will be a poignant flashback 10 years later when Kiera invents cold fusion.
duaneb 13y ago
Well I'm gonna write some letters. Jerry Hill, contact info on the right side: http://www.sao10.com/ http://www.sao10.com/ Bartow High contact information (it seems that Ronald Pritchard would be the person to contact): http://www.bartowhighschool.com/Contact%20Us.html http://www.bartowhighschool.com/Contact%20Us.html Note: I'm all for writing letters, but civil letters will get you the farthest.
desireco42 13y ago
I can't believe that with all the outrage and coverage this matter got, she will still face expulsion from school. Isn't there anyone sane there? Could this prosecutor drop the case by any chance. I don't consider her completely innocent, but still this was nothing that would require such severe penalties.
HarryHirsch 13y ago
The arbitrariness of the prosecution in the US is just staggering. Here you have this young lady who did something stupidly dangerous, pled guilty, and has been shipped off to an "alternative school" (read: school for criminals-in-training). On the other hand you have the Texas Tech explosion, (http://www.csb.gov/texas-tech-university-chemistry-lab-explosion/ http://www.csb.gov/texas-tech-university-chemistry-lab-explo...), where a fifth-year grad student (!) was told to prepare 100 mg of a genuinely fickle explosive, but instead cooked up 10 grams, which he then ground in a mortar (!!), and it predictably exploded, injuring the fellow gravely. His fellow students had concerns about his working habits, which are on the record, and neither the student, nor his supervisor were charged with anything. This isn't correct.
- olefoo 13y ago
  Ah, beg to differ. The young lady in question is of the duskier race and therefore the prosecution was not arbitrary; but according to long and traditional standards designed to maintain the social hierarchy without which society would crumble. //satirical if that's not obvious.
qwerta 13y ago
Hilarious, change names and this could be a story from soviet union 50 years ago.
graycat 13y ago
Scientists, blowing things up, losing fingers, eyes? Does it happen? I mean with serious scientists, I mean the most serious? Hmm????? Try http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf From chemistry lab, remember the Bunsen burner? Yup, there was a Bunsen, a chemist. He was blind in one eye, from some chemistry experiment gone wrong. They called him 'fingers' because on one hand he didn't have any -- one of his science experiments blew off his fingers. The PDF above, it's a total, thigh slapping, laugh yourself dizzy riot! It's about the chemistry research for liquid rocket fuels, not really for the huge US Saturn moon rocket (just kerosene and liquid oxygen) but for smaller rockets such as anti-aircraft missiles. It's a riot: The stories of "red fuming nitric acid" mixed with all kinds of stuff they could dream up, using mostly just the TIFO method -- try it and find out -- blowing holes in the roofs of labs, creating stinks that make a skunk smell like roses, doing things in cities that should only be done in deserts 100 miles from anyone, doing things in deserts, e.g., creating a column of smoke two miles high, that maybe shouldn't be done this side of Pluto, is a total SCREAM. Then there were the 'mono-propellents' -- no mixing or ignition required. Some were weak, say, for just gentle orientation of a spacecraft. Others were attempted for lots of thrust. Alas, once the reaction starts, might it just quickly move to the whole supply of mono-propellent? Yup, darned right. And, then, right -- kaBOOM. It's standard: Have much curiosity about chemistry, and some things will likely go BOOM. It's true at 14, 40, with a chemistry Ph.D. or not. I was never injured, but not for lack of a lot of chances. For one, apparently I didn't use enough KNO3 with my C and S! Dad had a 100 pound bag of NH4NO3 to make the lawn green. It REALLY made the lawn green. Put that stuff on and get some rain and have to mow the lawn every other day, and it's a DARK green. AMAZING stuff. It was readily available because the surrounding areas were full of cotton farms, and it did great things for cotton. I only worked with about a 1/2 cup of NH4NO3 at a time and got nothing out of it. Good thing: I might have lost a hand. Once actually learn some real chemistry, then see (1) even if know a lot of chemistry, messing with such energetic reactions, where the reactions or some unintended byproducts might be wildly unstable, and, as of the time of the PDF above, even good chemistry can't predict what will/will not be unstable, can be dangerous and (2) if its not dangerous, then just do the energy calculations on paper and f'get about mixing up the actual ingredients. Still, Al and NaOH drain cleaner, just gather the whole school together and tell them -- just do NOT do such things because you or someone else might lose a hand, eye, etc. Then DROP it. For the DA, hmm, add him to the list with the person in Boston who went after Aaron.

366 points by shrikant 13y ago

Finally, some good news today. And a victory for common sense. I, for one, am very happy about this news. But there's still the issue of her high-school education, to be resolved.

SeanDav 13y ago
She is already at a new high school. Looks like she will be ok. Now if only someone could charge the original instigating teachers and officials for wasting police time or even better, place them in an institute for the criminally stupid...
- Anechoic 13y ago
  She is already at a new high school. The Orlando Sentinel story linked in the OP says she "is now attending classes at an alternative school." Is that "alternative" as in "another" or "alternative school" as in "remedial school geared toward at-risk youth"?
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    I took it as the latter. "Alternative school", in my experience, is a very specific term and not just a synonym for "another, different school".
- whateverfor 13y ago
  No, she's been placed in an "alternative" school. That's not a place for learning, it's a place where the state sticks kids that have to be educated but aren't in prison at that moment, to keep them away from the normal system. The law says you can't just stay home and play video games all day just because you got expelled from your normal school, so they have to stick them somewhere. She might turn out OK, especially because she'll probably transfer to a normal school after this academic year, but this is still a travesty of justice.

gnht 13y ago

Americaaaaa

dickfickling 13y ago

While I don't think she ought to have been charged as a criminal, calling this "an unauthorized science experiment which lightly damaged an eight ounce plastic water bottle" is blatantly dishonest. As others have said in previous threads, this girl wasn't conducting a science experiment, she was blowing something up. People could have been injured (google drano bombs). Again, I don't condone legal action against her, but praising her as a scientist doesn't seem like the right course of action either. Edit: To be clear, I have no problem with explosions - 'for science' or otherwise. I have a problem with explosions on school property, unsanctioned by professors, and without proper (or any) safety equipment.

mindcrime 13y ago
As others have said in previous threads, this girl wasn't conducting a science experiment, she was blowing something up. Those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
- weareconvo 13y ago
  True, but in this case, they were, because she was blowing something up... not conducting a science experiment. Which was the point of his post.
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    "Experiment" in this case has, I think, a somewhat fuzzy definition. From her perspective, calling it a "science experiment" probably makes perfect sense.
    - weareconvo 13y ago
      Yeah, maybe cooking meth is a science experiment too in a certain light.
- readme 13y ago
  OK, well call it what it really is then: a science demonstration.

duncan_bayne 13y ago

I donated to her defense fund - assuming there's money left over, I hope they just give her the cash. I've sent a message to that effect to the person organising the fundraising.

dnautics 13y ago
I donated, too, I believe the plan from the start to convert it into an educational trust.

rhizome 13y ago

I wonder why it took weeks.

davorak 13y ago
Perhaps they waited for people to lose some interest in the story. Or to try and let cooler heads prevail.

guelo 13y ago

The assholes at the state attorney's office gave her a "diversion of prosecution" instead of completely dropping the matter. And the school district is still considering further disciplinary actions. The state attorney and the school district are the ones that should be expelled.

itafroma 13y ago
> The source article is a much more complete and informative story http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-ki.. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-ki.... Indeed. From that article, it's not an unconditional dropping of charges: > The office of State Attorney Jerry Hill, whose jurisdiction includes Polk, said that it extended "an offer of diversion of prosecution to the child." That typically means a probationary-like program that allows the youngster to perform community service or meet other conditions and then avoid a criminal record. > Brian Haas, an assistant state attorney and spokesman for the office, said he could not provide details of the diversion-program agreement reached in a juvenile's case. But he said the teenager and her guardian had signed the agreement.

droithomme 13y ago

The title of the article is incorrect, charges are not being dropped. Diversion is a plea bargain in which you plead guilty to the charges and receive probation. If you meet probation terms such as random drug testing and so forth, then your conviction record is "erased". Sometimes how this is handled procedurally is the signed guilty plea is held in a separate file and not entered into the main system, and at the end of diversion the file stays in the separate file if you have complied with all terms, or is entered into the main system if you haven't complied with all terms. Calling this "dropping charges" couldn't be further from the truth - this is a forced guilty plea. Since she "signed the agreement", the matter is over - she has admitted to charges and is legally guilty and has received probation, and that's the end of it.

jellicle 13y ago
Yep. So, she has pled guilty, been placed on probation, will have to comply with the probation terms, been kicked out of her high school and sent to another school for child-criminals where I'm sure the education will be absolutely stellar, and there's probably about a 50% chance that this criminal record will follow her around for the rest of her life (somehow, it seems that a lot of these supposedly-sealed convictions end up on adult criminal background checks). Job well done. One scientist eliminated from useful society.
- tiredofcareer 13y ago
  Her first statement while being interviewed was that she was performing a science experiment. That story changed under interview, and she later admitted someone told her how and encouraged her to do it. The outpouring of support from renowned scientists and legal funds happily ignored that point, and stuck with the "science experiment" angle. So, no, this is not an anti-science campaign by the government, regardless of how really hard we want to believe that she's aspiring to science. These things will blind you and take limbs off if you mishandle them. They have blown up on police officers after being left in an alley because they didn't detonate when kids make them. Then they just leave them for other people to clean up. Even if you buy the science experiment angle, which she herself went back on, this is a safety issue from the completely reckless way in which she performed a "science experiment", similar to detonating a pipe bomb on school property just to see what happens. Oh, how the narrative would be different if she had built a pipe bomb instead. Honestly, guys, we have this one wrong. Here's several other cases for your consideration, showing how big this problem is (the reason arrests are picking up is because LEOs are communicating about this, now that kids are starting to do it more): http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_pointe_woods_police_war.html http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_p... http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=9104036 http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=... (from TODAY) http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-explosives-found-in-Sun-Valley-205869081.html http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-expl... http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bottle-bombs-205342311.html http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bo... http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-to-schools-in-novato/nD7xh/ http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-t... This is a serious problem, not an opportunity to "win another scientist," and the narrative around this case has been disgusting. Reckless behavior and endangering yourself and others intentionally is not the hallmark of a scientist, no matter how much you want the science angle to be true.

danso 13y ago

I know that in this unfair world, we should be happy enough that her life has been spared and that she can live the life of an average teen, whether it's in science or not. But in my Hollywood version of life, this day will be a poignant flashback 10 years later when Kiera invents cold fusion.

duaneb 13y ago

Well I'm gonna write some letters. Jerry Hill, contact info on the right side: http://www.sao10.com/ http://www.sao10.com/ Bartow High contact information (it seems that Ronald Pritchard would be the person to contact): http://www.bartowhighschool.com/Contact%20Us.html http://www.bartowhighschool.com/Contact%20Us.html Note: I'm all for writing letters, but civil letters will get you the farthest.

desireco42 13y ago

I can't believe that with all the outrage and coverage this matter got, she will still face expulsion from school. Isn't there anyone sane there? Could this prosecutor drop the case by any chance. I don't consider her completely innocent, but still this was nothing that would require such severe penalties.

HarryHirsch 13y ago

The arbitrariness of the prosecution in the US is just staggering. Here you have this young lady who did something stupidly dangerous, pled guilty, and has been shipped off to an "alternative school" (read: school for criminals-in-training). On the other hand you have the Texas Tech explosion, (http://www.csb.gov/texas-tech-university-chemistry-lab-explosion/ http://www.csb.gov/texas-tech-university-chemistry-lab-explo...), where a fifth-year grad student (!) was told to prepare 100 mg of a genuinely fickle explosive, but instead cooked up 10 grams, which he then ground in a mortar (!!), and it predictably exploded, injuring the fellow gravely. His fellow students had concerns about his working habits, which are on the record, and neither the student, nor his supervisor were charged with anything. This isn't correct.

olefoo 13y ago
Ah, beg to differ. The young lady in question is of the duskier race and therefore the prosecution was not arbitrary; but according to long and traditional standards designed to maintain the social hierarchy without which society would crumble. //satirical if that's not obvious.

qwerta 13y ago

Hilarious, change names and this could be a story from soviet union 50 years ago.

graycat 13y ago

Scientists, blowing things up, losing fingers, eyes? Does it happen? I mean with serious scientists, I mean the most serious? Hmm????? Try http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf From chemistry lab, remember the Bunsen burner? Yup, there was a Bunsen, a chemist. He was blind in one eye, from some chemistry experiment gone wrong. They called him 'fingers' because on one hand he didn't have any -- one of his science experiments blew off his fingers. The PDF above, it's a total, thigh slapping, laugh yourself dizzy riot! It's about the chemistry research for liquid rocket fuels, not really for the huge US Saturn moon rocket (just kerosene and liquid oxygen) but for smaller rockets such as anti-aircraft missiles. It's a riot: The stories of "red fuming nitric acid" mixed with all kinds of stuff they could dream up, using mostly just the TIFO method -- try it and find out -- blowing holes in the roofs of labs, creating stinks that make a skunk smell like roses, doing things in cities that should only be done in deserts 100 miles from anyone, doing things in deserts, e.g., creating a column of smoke two miles high, that maybe shouldn't be done this side of Pluto, is a total SCREAM. Then there were the 'mono-propellents' -- no mixing or ignition required. Some were weak, say, for just gentle orientation of a spacecraft. Others were attempted for lots of thrust. Alas, once the reaction starts, might it just quickly move to the whole supply of mono-propellent? Yup, darned right. And, then, right -- kaBOOM. It's standard: Have much curiosity about chemistry, and some things will likely go BOOM. It's true at 14, 40, with a chemistry Ph.D. or not. I was never injured, but not for lack of a lot of chances. For one, apparently I didn't use enough KNO3 with my C and S! Dad had a 100 pound bag of NH4NO3 to make the lawn green. It REALLY made the lawn green. Put that stuff on and get some rain and have to mow the lawn every other day, and it's a DARK green. AMAZING stuff. It was readily available because the surrounding areas were full of cotton farms, and it did great things for cotton. I only worked with about a 1/2 cup of NH4NO3 at a time and got nothing out of it. Good thing: I might have lost a hand. Once actually learn some real chemistry, then see (1) even if know a lot of chemistry, messing with such energetic reactions, where the reactions or some unintended byproducts might be wildly unstable, and, as of the time of the PDF above, even good chemistry can't predict what will/will not be unstable, can be dangerous and (2) if its not dangerous, then just do the energy calculations on paper and f'get about mixing up the actual ingredients. Still, Al and NaOH drain cleaner, just gather the whole school together and tell them -- just do NOT do such things because you or someone else might lose a hand, eye, etc. Then DROP it. For the DA, hmm, add him to the list with the person in Boston who went after Aaron.