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Edit: [[[ This story is getting heavily flagged as well. http://i.imgur.com/LiUSpCy.png http://i.imgur.com/LiUSpCy.png Looks like the Google fans, employees a
by cooldeal 13y ago
Edit: [[[ This story is getting heavily flagged as well.
http://i.imgur.com/LiUSpCy.png http://i.imgur.com/LiUSpCy.png
Looks like the Google fans, employees and shareholders on HN with good karma can't let this story break on the day of Google I/O? And people accuse Microsoft of astroturfing! What is this then?
If PG does not want to stop this blatant and continuous moderator abuse, he might as well declare HN a Google and Linux fiefdom so that the rest of us using other platforms and who can think for ourselves and are not Microsoft haters can stay away.
]]]
Posted this story earlier and it got flagged off the front page.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714520
Reposting my comment here:
This is the latest in a long saga.
From a post from Microsoft in 2011:
First, in 2006 Google acquired YouTube—and since then it has put in place a growing number of technical measures to restrict competing search engines from properly accessing it for their search results. Without proper access to YouTube, Bing and other search engines cannot stand with Google on an equal footing in returning search results with links to YouTube videos and that, of course, drives more users away from competitors and to Google.
Second, in 2010 and again more recently, Google blocked Microsoft’s new Windows Phones from operating properly with YouTube. Google has enabled its own Android phones to access YouTube so that users can search for video categories, find favorites, see ratings, and so forth in the rich user interfaces offered by those phones. It’s done the same thing for the iPhones offered by Apple, which doesn’t offer a competing search service.
Unfortunately, Google has refused to allow Microsoft’s new Windows Phones to access this YouTube metadata in the same way that Android phones and iPhones do. As a result, Microsoft’s YouTube “app” on Windows Phones is basically just a browser displaying YouTube’s mobile Web site, without the rich functionality offered on competing phones. Microsoft is ready to release a high quality YouTube app for Windows Phone. We just need permission to access YouTube in the way that other phones already do, permission Google has refused to provide.
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2011/03/30/adding-our-voice-to-concerns-about-search-in-europe.aspx http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2...
- ok_craig 13y agoThe issue is that the app is not displaying ads, which is against the TOS.
- cooldeal 13y agoThe issue that triggers that problem is that Google refuses to either give them access to the YouTube API like it does for iOS and Android or makes a WP app itself.
- Someone 13y agodid for iOS (http://t.nbcnews.com/technology/apple-says-youtube-app-wont-be-part-new-mobile-software-927116 http://t.nbcnews.com/technology/apple-says-youtube-app-wont-...) There is a Google YouTube app for iOS, though.
- CloudNine 13y agoApple developed the original YouTube iOS app with Google's blessings and pulled it after Google released their own official version.
- lern_too_spel 13y agoThe API is JSON over HTTP. Getting permission to use it is a completely automated process.
- cooldeal 13y agoAnd I would assume getting banned from the API is also a completely automated process. https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/getting-started#quota https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/getting-started#quo...
- rbanffy 13y agoI guess the Windows Phone guys don't talk to their Xbox counterparts... http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/28/youtube-xbox-app/ http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/28/youtube-xbox-app/
- MysticMan 13y agoSo what? I think the XBox YouTube app was developed by Google, not Microsoft. http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=3013407 http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&an... WP does not ban adding ads to apps. If Google made a competing game console, would be interesting to see if they would have withheld it like they do on Windows Phone.
- mtgx 13y agoTwitter and Facebook can do and have done the same thing to other 3rd party developers, too. This like saying Google is not on equal footing with Bing on social media integration, because it doesn't get the type of API level that Bing gets from Facebook. Does Google want to "maliciously" block Youtube from WP8? Yes. Does Facebook maliciously block Google from getting any of their deeper level API's? Yes. So now can we also stop pretending Google owes anything to Microsoft? I wish the situation for all platforms was different, too, and there was a lot more collaboration between them. But I also understand why Google is doing this. It's retaliation for all the crap Microsoft has done against Google over the past few years, too - the anti-trust lawsuit, the Gmail ad, the DroidRage, the Scroogle, the patent license extortion from Android (and Chromebook) makers, and on and on. So I can't exactly say I feel sorry for Microsoft, because they are not innocent, even though they try to play it like that in the media. But this situation will become worse for any user that isn't fully committed to one platform or another, and that's just the unfortunate reality of the tech war today. Maybe it will get better in a few years.
- recoiledsnake 13y agoIn a number of comments on HN I get the impression that people believe Google to be a more "open" and less evil company and thus should be trusted more but here you're comparing them to other companies considered "evil" and saying it's okay for Google to behave the same way. Also, lack of social media integration isn't that important a feature of search engines. Also it is likely that UbuntuOS/Jolla/FirefoxOS/Bada also get the same treatment from Google?
- wamatt 13y agoThere used to be an understated, but strong implication, that Google is 'good', Microsoft is 'evil', and perhaps justifiably so: Microsoft didn't exactly make a good impression on geekdom during the 90's. These days however, and speaking from a purely subjective perspective, Microsoft appears to be slightly softer and humbler, whilst Google under Page appears to be confident, maybe even aggressive and certainly increasingly ubiquitous. It's the last part that concerns me most. Apple, Google and Microsoft however all pale by comparison when placed on the same scale as non-profit Mozilla Corp, in terms of openness and looking after our rights and freedoms. Personally I'm somewhat of a bannerless citizen, but at least in theory, that's an organization that could receive my support.
- przemelek 13y agoYou see each service in Internet has something called Terms Of Service. In case of YouTube one of terms says that apps cannot skip ads. In other words it says that apps cannot steal from poor creators of materials. MS created app which is doing it. They ordinary steal money from ads from creators. People spent theirs time on creating content, uploaded it to YouTube, and now WP users thanks to MS will watch theirs work in way which will cause that creators will not get money from it. Does behavior of MS means that now anybody can download all MS products and start to use those products without paying?
- iamshs 13y agoSo suppose i access youtube through Firefox and I have adblocker and a video download extension installed .....am I in violation of ToS? Also, I have AppleTV and I have never seen any ad on youtube video, so are they themselves helping me to steal content from creators?
- CloudNine 13y agoAppleTV doesn't compete with Android so they don't care. Well, there is GoogleTV, but it's doing way worse than Windows Phone, so they don't care.
- technoslut 13y agoI doubt Apple would do anything without Google's permission regarding this. Google probably has the same deal with Apple with the built-in YouTube app where there weren't any ads either.
- iamshs 13y ago@cloudnine : But then it is the same app (YT), and same functionality being accessed. SO why is Google adamant on showing ads for WP users?
- przemelek 13y ago@iamshs not sure here, but I'm guessing that you are not breaking TOS. But app for displaying YouTube content needs to be OK with TOS for YouTube API. And this TOS says: II. Prohibitions Your API Client will not, and You will not encourage or create functionality for Your users or other third parties to: [...] modify, replace, interfere with or block advertisements placed by YouTube in the YouTube Data, YouTube audiovisual content, or the YouTube player; [https://developers.google.com/youtube/terms https://developers.google.com/youtube/terms]
- clark-kent 13y agoThere are copyright issues involved because Microsoft needs direct raw access to the YouTube videos, this means that Microsoft can bypass the ads and other deals Google have made with their content partners. Apple and Tivo made deals with Google to be able to do this, Google has to decide if its worth it for them to make the same deal with Microsoft at this point. I personally don't think Google is being evil about it there's just a lot more involved.
- CloudNine 13y ago>Looks like the Google fans, employees and shareholders on HN with good karma can't let this story break on the day of Google I/O? And people accuse Microsoft of astroturfing! What is this then? Well, obviously this is a false flag attack by paid Microsoft astroturfers and shills! /s :)
- rbanffy 13y agoThe depressing part is that they probably don't even pay their astroturfers and shills... Lots of volunteers.
- Steko 13y ago"If PG does not want to stop this blatant and continuous moderator abuse, he might as well declare HN a Google and Linux fiefdom so that the rest of us using other platforms and who can think for ourselves and are not Microsoft haters can stay away." I think an interesting project would be to reverse engineer the flag scoring and karma decay, scrape and offer an "unskewed HN" and something that shows most flagged topics or articles (maybe a flag weighted word cloud for last x days idk).
- drivebyacct2 13y agoIronic that two stories, actually far more critical of Google with something more legitimate to complain about, outrank this story. I'd love to hear pg comment on if Google stories are really abused, mis-modded or flagged as you imply.
- OGinparadise 13y agoMy bet is on Google employees. I get a good dozen or so downvotes from them when I post something negative about Google. Usually it happens in a short period of time, as if someone gave them marching orders. I have also noticed that Googlers aren't fans of saying "Disclaimer: I work for Google" but go straight into praising Google's Product A and Feature B as if they had no bias. "Google is good and Microsoft is evil" is getting a little tiring and IMO is no longer true. Google will do almost anything for a quick buck: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jan/13/google-kenyan-rival-mocality-database http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jan/13/google-keny... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576528332418595052.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405311190478740457652... http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/05/technology/google_verizon_net_neutrality_rules/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/05/technology/google_verizon_ne... Just imagine what may hide in their black box algorithms as Google claims fairness an unbiased results.
- rbanffy 13y ago> My bet is on Google employees. So, either your post is considered bad, deserving downvotes, or there is a conspiracy. I'd go for the simple explanation.
- OGinparadise 13y agoSo, either your post is considered bad, deserving downvotes, or there is a conspiracy. I'd go for the simple explanation. Me too. Considering the flagging of bad-for-Google stories it makes sense. That's what you meant for the "simple explanation" right?
- matwood 13y agoThe YouTube apps on my android devices is pretty poor (look at the comments on the play store). I usually just end up going to the website. Google is mad someone built a working app for YouTube.