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Angry young Indians: What a waste

130 points by pajju 13y ago

gyepi 13y ago
>The average age of cabinet ministers is 65. The country has never had a prime minister born in independent India. >One man who might buck that trend, Rahul Gandhi, is the son, >grandson and great-grandson of former prime ministers. >India is run by gerontocrats and epigones: grey hairs and groomed heirs. Aside from that wonderful turn of phrase, this may well be the key concept: India has long been run by entrenched interests for their own benefit and the situation shows no signs of abating.
- vacri 13y ago
  This being said, it's unusual for a democratic head of government to be anything other than a grey-hair. Other movers and shakers, sure, but to climb to the very top in a democracy generally takes a while.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    I don't think this is true in Western democracies, where age can be a liability during an election. Advisers yes, but the guy running on the ticket needs to project charisma and vigor as well as some wisdom. The funny thing about elections: the electorate doesn't look at your CV so much; Obama was just a 1 term senator before he became president. Having more political experience would have actually been a liability for him as he would be seen as more of an insider. This is definitely true in the directly elected presidential system we have in the states (definitely true post Clinton, even Reagan was an exception). Parliamentary systems are a bit different since the prime minister is elected indirectly, but even there we are seeing some fairly young heads of states in the UK and Germany (Cameron is 40 something, Merkell has been their 7 years and hasn't even hit 60 yet).
  - rodgerd 13y ago
    Perhaps New Zealand's an outlier, but the majority of Prime Ministers here (functionally the head of government) during my lifetime came to the office in their 40s. I note Cameron and Blair in the UK were in the same age bracket.
fosap 13y ago
>Worryingly, a growing share of household saving is bypassing the financial system altogether, seeking refuge from inflation in gold, bricks and mortar. This is great. It means it's a kind of sustainable. 1) In case of a crisis (which will come) It won't be thrown back too much. 1) I think India is anything but sustainable due to their enormous population growth.
- melling 13y ago
  Why does their population growth have to be a negative? They are currently as big as China, which will have the biggest economy in the world within a decade. They should invest in the population and rise to the top.
  - lake99 13y ago
    I have the impression that the landmass of India is insufficient to sustain its population. Let's say the food supply is managed perfectly (it isn't) and no one is going hungry. How about the fact that 60% of the population does not have access to reliable electricity? How about the fact that most big cities have scheduled power-cuts (mostly in summer) for 2-6 hours each day? Energy needs are just the tip of this iceberg. I think of India's population as one of the most significant factors in keeping the country poor and underdeveloped.
    - zanny 13y ago
      Do keep in mind the reason the explloding population is bad is not exclusively because of the raw number of people or the lack of food or power availability (both can be improved with tech) but more because the population explosion is in the poorest Indians in the most isolated areas who suddenly came into contact with basic medicine and health practice in the last 30 years. Population explosions at the bottom always hurt economies, and you just never see them happen at the top for a plethora of reasons.
      - lake99 13y ago
        India does not have a big problem with food production. It has a problem with the storage and dispersal of food. The problem is not with the tech, but with management (in turn, with corruption). Power: The only tech that can fix it is cost-effective solar power, which is a long way off. Otherwise India imports coal, petroleum and uranium. India's resources cannot sustain its power needs. Population explosion will be at the bottom in India. Improving healthcare (by charities also) and worsening (or non-existent) education points only in one direction.
lake99 13y ago
Words, words, and more empty words! > But the likes of Bharat Forge and Mahindra & Mahindra prefer to employ sophisticated machinery rather than abundant labour. Surely, it employs labour. Why does the author claim that machines are preferred over labour? What does he compare it with? Where are the numbers? > At the other end of the spectrum are innumerable tinpot workshops, employing handfuls of people and outdated methods. Sure, there are such workshops. Everywhere. > What India lacks is a Mittelstand of midsized, labour-hungry firms. Anything to back up this claim? How does India compare to other countries on this front? Where is the data? Where is the analysis? > These include India’s notorious labour laws which, on paper, prevent factories firing anyone without the state’s permission. Is this really true? What Act/Article Number should I be looking at? My impression of the article is that it is a tale / Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, / Signifying nothing.
- lifeguard 13y ago
  Nice tear down of a planted story. Regular people were not the intended audience of this hit piece.
  - intended 13y ago
    ? I work at a firm that manufacture goods and has a few factories. Everything mentioned in the article is true, and grossly downplays the gritty reality to make for simple reading.
    - lifeguard 13y ago
      I have the impression life is gritty in all sectors of the Indian economy, so why the hit piece on manufacturing right before elections in India?
      - f1vespeed 13y ago
        define "hit piece"
    - nikster 13y ago
f1vespeed 13y ago
As a US-raised Indian I'm not familiar with the macro details. But I've been living in India for the past few years working for a startup, so let me identify some low-hanging fruit. 1) Incredibly, shockingly poor hygiene. Dirty black rags being used repeatedly to dry plates at restaurants. Idlys being cooked on plastic sheets inside hot streamers. Infernoes of uncollected trash burning on streets. Rats and cockroaches everywhere including your toothbrush at night. 2) Utterly horrifying road conditions. Potholes large enough to cause motorcycle crashes every 100 feet. A culture of not giving the other motorist more than 6 inches on any side. Driving on the wrong side of the road, including on highways. It's incredibly stressful to think about your odds when you leave the house. 3) A political system that no-one is optimistic about. Stories are rampant of politicians buying votes by giving free household appliances away to the poor, and then doing nothing in office to help them. 4) An education system that isn't remotely good enough. Miserable professors, antiquated curriculums that churn out the IT coolies we're so famous for. 5) Congestion so bad you hardly ever leave a 5-mile radius. People tend to hang out based on which neighborhood they live in, because a trip to a friend's place more than 5 miles away can turn into an hour-long slog on terrifying roads. 6) A culture of being cheap. If you're only willing to tip your waiter 10 rupees, it may help out your savings rate, but it certainly won't help the waiter buy his kid a computer someday. Same goes for our beloved household servants, who get paid $150 per month at best, $40 at worst to clean our floors. But to voice a conflict that everyone who lives here talks about, I'm not a pessimist about India by any means, because it's amazing how much the people of this country have achieved through individual hard work in the face of so many poor institutions.
- yalogin 13y ago
  All of them very true. One of the biggest problems is corruption is rooted in the culture. Every person believes every other person can be bought. And its true as well. The people making laws are corrupt to their bone but if the people in charge of enforcing are corrupt as well that leads to hopelessness.
- chailatte 13y ago
  I am a huge pessimist about India. here's why. 1.) Everyone in the thread is ignoring a huge point raised by the author: this is the last biggest bubble we will ever witness in our lifetime (and possibly for many lifetimes) due to a.) unpeg of gold standard b.) shift from farm to factory work c.) shift from one income to two income household d.) machine/software advances and many other factors has produced the greatest economic growth we have ever seen in history. However, due to a.) unsustainable financial gambling b.) wealth growth only in top 1%, mostly through rentier effects c.) robots, automation and artificial intelligence resulting in jobs destruction d.) population slowdown, shift to older demographics the second dip in global economic depression is happening. and will induce so much deflation soon that 99% of the world population will be very very poor. for 3-4 generations. 2.) due to the lack of hygiene/lack of transportation/too many people/bad weather/trash everywhere/homeless everywhere/fecal matters on the streets/too many doctors prescribing antibiotics, resulting in super-resistant viruses, there will be a huge epidemic sooner or later that might wipe out millions of people, and nobody will be able to do anything about it because the crash in the economy. 3.) Growth in IT outsourcing is no more. Foreign investments are down big. There are better countries for companies to invest in that have better infrastructure and speaks better english.
rikacomet 13y ago
I did a research a while back. For an entrepreneur, there are only two things he can make broadly, products and services. While services is a another thing, new products depend on a major workforce of prototyping industry. Product Development in short is: Idea --> CAD File -- Prototype It appears, that most of the prototyping firms, do not pick up from in the middle, i.e, If I had a Idea, no firm was ready to produce a CAD file. Even China based prototyping companies only take CAD files, and do not help you, with the CAD generation. Meaning, if you don't undergo, a extensive training in software like Solidworks or AutoCAD which is both expensive and time consuming, or not find a engineer already well trained in them, you have no scope of converting your idea into a reality. This is a bottle neck for entrepreneurs in India.
- mayank 13y ago
  Bottleneck, or opportunity?
  - rikacomet 13y ago
    bottleneck for those who don't have either money or skill to take this opportunity.
  - rikacomet 13y ago
    bottleneck for those who don't have either money or skill to take this opportunity.
- dsuth 13y ago
  That's because there's a step missing in your model, which goes like this: Idea --> Engineering/Design --> CAD File --> Prototype And the reason it doesn't get done that well in places like India and China at the moment is that it's not easy or quick to create a sustainable engineering sector that can reliably take ideas to a working prototype stage. China, and to a lesser extent India, will slowly develop this over the next 10-15 years I think, since Western companies are gifting them a huge amount of engineering knowledge in exchange for cheap engineering, or so-called High Value Engineering (HVE), but there are a few hurdles even so: 1. Education. 2. Cultural issues around problem solving.
at-fates-hands 13y ago
India reminds me a lot of what Taiwan used to be. About 10-15 years ago, they were a big joke when he came to cycle manufacturing. The quality of the bikes they produced and the factories there were horrible sweatshops. Then, they started getting better. They updated their technology, they had better trained workers to run the new machines. Then bike manufacturers started to see what was going on, and started moving big chunks of their manufacturing over there. Last time I checked, companies like Giant, Trek, and Specialized all have some of their manufacturing over there now. Their factories are some of the most advanced manufacturing plants in the world. I think India has the same potential, but its still about 3-5 years from realizing its own potential. It will be interesting to see if it can make the jump, or remain a great "what if. . " story line.
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  Education, infrastructure, and even basic literacy are at least an order of magnitude worse in India than in Taiwan.
  - chailatte 13y ago
    taiwan also didn't also have the problem of 1.) large population 2.) squatters rights 3.) apathetic/spineless voters 4.) human fecal matters on the streets 5.) water shortage 6.) religious ferver 7.) entranched corruption 8.)....many more
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      Taiwan and SK also had strong dictatorships until relatively recently; we aren't really talking about democracy until the 80s. Now, dictatorships are bad, but as long as the dictators are somewhat responsible, they do convey some amount of stability and economic development on the country that might not be possible (at that time) with a more chaotic democratic system. I'm not pro dictator, and I'm sure there was a more efficient path to prosperity that involved democracy, but this is just how it worked out. Today see China, or Singapore if you think maybe the Lee family has a bit too much power than is justified in a real democracy.
sridharvembu 13y ago
I am optimistic about India, in spite of all the problems. First, almost all the problems are accounted for by the $1200 GDP per capita. It is hard to visualize just how scarce resources are to solve problems when you are that poor. At the municipal level, annual budgets of $20-$30 per capita would be considered good in India, even in a relatively prosperous city (by Indian standards) like Chennai. Lack of hygiene and sanitation are almost entirely explained by that $20 per capita. If you read the history of cities like New York and London a century and a half ago, they had very similar problems to what a city like Chennai is going through. Now the reason for optimism: the skill level among young Indians is growing rapidly, thanks to the spread of basic education and growing aspiration among all classes of Indians. That is the foundation on which economic growth is built, and economic growth is the only way we are going to solve our other problems.
- zapf 13y ago
  No way man. If your daddy doesn't have money you can't get no education. If your daddy doesn't have money you can't enough vitamins to get the brain or the proteins to get the muscles to work properly. If your daddy doesn't have money you can't even shit with dignity. Without a middle class or a rich daddy, you are basically screwed. When 37% of Indians live below poverty line. I dunno how you think skill and nutrition levels are increasing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India#Poverty_estimates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India#Poverty_estima... To get India going, we need to do all the the article is saying - spend on food, health and eduction. But I would add the state needs to do that, private sector will just screw the poor further - no deliberately, but shit happens. Being optimistic is just that, optimistic.
  - sridharvembu 13y ago
    All of the problems were much worse 35 years ago. Yet, in spite of all that, India has made progress. I assume you are very young - I am approaching 45, and I am more optimistic now than when I was at 25. I am not just being optimistic, I am putting my money and my time where my mouth is.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
31reasons 13y ago
What I have learned is that Indians severely lack "social intelligence". I am not talking about the kind which makes you good with people. I am talking about, how much a person thinks that What is good for people surrounding you is also good for you. I think average indian's such intelligence is perhaps is in negative. I have seen people throw trash on the streets without any regard for others. Same goes for every other resources and issues. Each indian lives in a bubble of their own home, which is perfectly clean but total disregard anything outside the walls. There are some socially enlightened groups like Ugly Indians (https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Ugly-Indian/123459791046618 https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Ugly-Indian/1234597910466...) doing great work, which I hope extend to the entire country.
- habosa 13y ago
  It may be a lack of "social intelligence" as you say, but it could also be a result of Broken Windows Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory). What incentive does one person have to organize his/her trash when there are already massive burning piles in the street?
  - 31reasons 13y ago
    Thats also a major cause. In fact Ugly Indian group has noticed similar effect. When they clean certain areas of the streets and improve it aesthetically, it stops being degraded to its original state more often than not.
  - modarts 13y ago
    I feel that the concept of the "Tragedy of the Commons" more closely mirrors this aspect of "social intelligence" that the original commenter referred to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
- sateesh 13y ago
  I think the better term is "lack of civic sense". I don't think there is a lack of social intelligence or such thing, I see it more as a plain apathy to anyone other than self and one's kins.
anuraj 13y ago
India is too large a country with dysfunctional democracy and bureaucracy which is hard if not impossible to fix. Indian states are liguistically, culturally and ethnically separate republics. The true way out for India is to follow an EU style governance formula, where ethnic states become autonomous republics with a common parliament, common currency and common defence mechanism. Indian states once released from the shackles of a centralized bureaucracy can perform much better and develop faster. States like Kerala, Tamilnadu and Gujarat can achieve developed nation status with in few decades at most. Kerala alone can become a $250B economy from the current $65B if only it is allowed to mend its own affairs.
nnq 13y ago
I'm not Indian, but I truly hope that India rises above it's current economical level, for the good of the entire world. Having whole generations of very hard-working (too hard working!) young people that have grown with an unhealthy tolerance for very bad working conditions, work abuse and for bad living conditions decreases the quality of working conditions worldwide (or in EU and US at least) and enforces a stereotype that will only turn back to hurt the younger generations of Indians. My advice to qualified hard-working Indians (or any other qualified and educated people emigrating for a poorer country to a richer one): 1. be PROUD of yourself, don't be willing to work for 2x less just because you've just immigrated to an EU country or to the US (or for 10x less if you're working in your home country for an outsourcer)! you don't deserve less! 2. stop selling yourself with the "I can work really hard" label on your head - every employer and manager will respect you less as a human being if you do so, even if they may value you more (as in "business value", not human value!). (let me tell you something: even if business owners and top managers paint themselves as hard working guys, they just do it to project this image to their employees - 50% didn't get there by working hard, but by working smart an by good delegation and externalizing skills; only 10% probably got there by sheer hard work; and the other 40%... let's just say you don't want them as your role models :) ) 3. once you get to a certain skill level, grow a bit of smugness, pride and condescendence for God's sake (it's healthy for you, trust me!), and try to wear the "reluctant genius" hat form time to time instead of the "hard working bee" one, even if it's not who you are - it teaches people the value, scarcity and tricky nature of "high quality wetware", it teaches that they have to pay top dollars for brainpower and accept that it will not always work as they want it and they just have to put up with this! 4. don't be afraid to show Uncle Sam the finger if you get caught in an US VISA trap, like being unable to quit your job because you'll loose your H1B VISA or something - this is demeaning and you shouldn't work in a country that puts you in such a situation, even if you'd earn more and learn more than anywhere else! You shouldn't because you don't have to: the "rich" world is bigger than the US: there's Canada, Europe, Australia, rising economies in South American countries etc. Be angry, but also be proud and don't sell yourself short even if it hurts you in the short run - by asking for more and doing less you're actually making the world a better place for your children, even if it seems against your intuition and values!
- rtpg 13y ago
newernpguy 13y ago
India has a talented workforce in search of the next big industry, or the country will become a one-trick pony
invdevm 13y ago
Whatever the people are saying about is right. But consider this point, inspite of all these bottlenecks, India is growing rapidly. Can people of US or China remain united if 3000 languages are spoken in one country alone? After US denied India the supercomputers, we built one of the finest one in a very short time and that too with very little money. And sorry NASA, you cannot match ISRO.
invdevm 13y ago
Just that the Economist published this article, doesn't mean that India is going down. Look at yourself, US sponsored the terrorism in Afghanistan and what was the result of that- WTC attack.
general_failure 13y ago
The biggest problem with India is the lack of nationalism. Most Indians are not proud of India. If they were, all it's problems would get fixed for real. India is like 'Europe' - each state is a country of it's own. My solution to the whole problem is to spin off many states into separate countries. The people would be lot happier that way - most don't want to live together anyway. And then have some sort of schengen visa to enable free movement between states. 'State' level nationalism is a lot lot lot more than 'Country' level nationalism.

130 points by pajju 13y ago

gyepi 13y ago

>The average age of cabinet ministers is 65. The country has never had a prime minister born in independent India. >One man who might buck that trend, Rahul Gandhi, is the son, >grandson and great-grandson of former prime ministers. >India is run by gerontocrats and epigones: grey hairs and groomed heirs. Aside from that wonderful turn of phrase, this may well be the key concept: India has long been run by entrenched interests for their own benefit and the situation shows no signs of abating.

vacri 13y ago
This being said, it's unusual for a democratic head of government to be anything other than a grey-hair. Other movers and shakers, sure, but to climb to the very top in a democracy generally takes a while.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  I don't think this is true in Western democracies, where age can be a liability during an election. Advisers yes, but the guy running on the ticket needs to project charisma and vigor as well as some wisdom. The funny thing about elections: the electorate doesn't look at your CV so much; Obama was just a 1 term senator before he became president. Having more political experience would have actually been a liability for him as he would be seen as more of an insider. This is definitely true in the directly elected presidential system we have in the states (definitely true post Clinton, even Reagan was an exception). Parliamentary systems are a bit different since the prime minister is elected indirectly, but even there we are seeing some fairly young heads of states in the UK and Germany (Cameron is 40 something, Merkell has been their 7 years and hasn't even hit 60 yet).
- rodgerd 13y ago
  Perhaps New Zealand's an outlier, but the majority of Prime Ministers here (functionally the head of government) during my lifetime came to the office in their 40s. I note Cameron and Blair in the UK were in the same age bracket.

fosap 13y ago

>Worryingly, a growing share of household saving is bypassing the financial system altogether, seeking refuge from inflation in gold, bricks and mortar. This is great. It means it's a kind of sustainable. 1) In case of a crisis (which will come) It won't be thrown back too much. 1) I think India is anything but sustainable due to their enormous population growth.

melling 13y ago
Why does their population growth have to be a negative? They are currently as big as China, which will have the biggest economy in the world within a decade. They should invest in the population and rise to the top.
- lake99 13y ago
  I have the impression that the landmass of India is insufficient to sustain its population. Let's say the food supply is managed perfectly (it isn't) and no one is going hungry. How about the fact that 60% of the population does not have access to reliable electricity? How about the fact that most big cities have scheduled power-cuts (mostly in summer) for 2-6 hours each day? Energy needs are just the tip of this iceberg. I think of India's population as one of the most significant factors in keeping the country poor and underdeveloped.
  - zanny 13y ago
    Do keep in mind the reason the explloding population is bad is not exclusively because of the raw number of people or the lack of food or power availability (both can be improved with tech) but more because the population explosion is in the poorest Indians in the most isolated areas who suddenly came into contact with basic medicine and health practice in the last 30 years. Population explosions at the bottom always hurt economies, and you just never see them happen at the top for a plethora of reasons.
    - lake99 13y ago
      India does not have a big problem with food production. It has a problem with the storage and dispersal of food. The problem is not with the tech, but with management (in turn, with corruption). Power: The only tech that can fix it is cost-effective solar power, which is a long way off. Otherwise India imports coal, petroleum and uranium. India's resources cannot sustain its power needs. Population explosion will be at the bottom in India. Improving healthcare (by charities also) and worsening (or non-existent) education points only in one direction.

lake99 13y ago

Words, words, and more empty words! > But the likes of Bharat Forge and Mahindra & Mahindra prefer to employ sophisticated machinery rather than abundant labour. Surely, it employs labour. Why does the author claim that machines are preferred over labour? What does he compare it with? Where are the numbers? > At the other end of the spectrum are innumerable tinpot workshops, employing handfuls of people and outdated methods. Sure, there are such workshops. Everywhere. > What India lacks is a Mittelstand of midsized, labour-hungry firms. Anything to back up this claim? How does India compare to other countries on this front? Where is the data? Where is the analysis? > These include India’s notorious labour laws which, on paper, prevent factories firing anyone without the state’s permission. Is this really true? What Act/Article Number should I be looking at? My impression of the article is that it is a tale / Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, / Signifying nothing.

lifeguard 13y ago
Nice tear down of a planted story. Regular people were not the intended audience of this hit piece.
- intended 13y ago
  ? I work at a firm that manufacture goods and has a few factories. Everything mentioned in the article is true, and grossly downplays the gritty reality to make for simple reading.
  - lifeguard 13y ago
    I have the impression life is gritty in all sectors of the Indian economy, so why the hit piece on manufacturing right before elections in India?
    - f1vespeed 13y ago
      define "hit piece"
  - nikster 13y ago

f1vespeed 13y ago

As a US-raised Indian I'm not familiar with the macro details. But I've been living in India for the past few years working for a startup, so let me identify some low-hanging fruit. 1) Incredibly, shockingly poor hygiene. Dirty black rags being used repeatedly to dry plates at restaurants. Idlys being cooked on plastic sheets inside hot streamers. Infernoes of uncollected trash burning on streets. Rats and cockroaches everywhere including your toothbrush at night. 2) Utterly horrifying road conditions. Potholes large enough to cause motorcycle crashes every 100 feet. A culture of not giving the other motorist more than 6 inches on any side. Driving on the wrong side of the road, including on highways. It's incredibly stressful to think about your odds when you leave the house. 3) A political system that no-one is optimistic about. Stories are rampant of politicians buying votes by giving free household appliances away to the poor, and then doing nothing in office to help them. 4) An education system that isn't remotely good enough. Miserable professors, antiquated curriculums that churn out the IT coolies we're so famous for. 5) Congestion so bad you hardly ever leave a 5-mile radius. People tend to hang out based on which neighborhood they live in, because a trip to a friend's place more than 5 miles away can turn into an hour-long slog on terrifying roads. 6) A culture of being cheap. If you're only willing to tip your waiter 10 rupees, it may help out your savings rate, but it certainly won't help the waiter buy his kid a computer someday. Same goes for our beloved household servants, who get paid $150 per month at best, $40 at worst to clean our floors. But to voice a conflict that everyone who lives here talks about, I'm not a pessimist about India by any means, because it's amazing how much the people of this country have achieved through individual hard work in the face of so many poor institutions.

yalogin 13y ago
All of them very true. One of the biggest problems is corruption is rooted in the culture. Every person believes every other person can be bought. And its true as well. The people making laws are corrupt to their bone but if the people in charge of enforcing are corrupt as well that leads to hopelessness.
chailatte 13y ago
I am a huge pessimist about India. here's why. 1.) Everyone in the thread is ignoring a huge point raised by the author: this is the last biggest bubble we will ever witness in our lifetime (and possibly for many lifetimes) due to a.) unpeg of gold standard b.) shift from farm to factory work c.) shift from one income to two income household d.) machine/software advances and many other factors has produced the greatest economic growth we have ever seen in history. However, due to a.) unsustainable financial gambling b.) wealth growth only in top 1%, mostly through rentier effects c.) robots, automation and artificial intelligence resulting in jobs destruction d.) population slowdown, shift to older demographics the second dip in global economic depression is happening. and will induce so much deflation soon that 99% of the world population will be very very poor. for 3-4 generations. 2.) due to the lack of hygiene/lack of transportation/too many people/bad weather/trash everywhere/homeless everywhere/fecal matters on the streets/too many doctors prescribing antibiotics, resulting in super-resistant viruses, there will be a huge epidemic sooner or later that might wipe out millions of people, and nobody will be able to do anything about it because the crash in the economy. 3.) Growth in IT outsourcing is no more. Foreign investments are down big. There are better countries for companies to invest in that have better infrastructure and speaks better english.

rikacomet 13y ago

I did a research a while back. For an entrepreneur, there are only two things he can make broadly, products and services. While services is a another thing, new products depend on a major workforce of prototyping industry. Product Development in short is: Idea --> CAD File -- Prototype It appears, that most of the prototyping firms, do not pick up from in the middle, i.e, If I had a Idea, no firm was ready to produce a CAD file. Even China based prototyping companies only take CAD files, and do not help you, with the CAD generation. Meaning, if you don't undergo, a extensive training in software like Solidworks or AutoCAD which is both expensive and time consuming, or not find a engineer already well trained in them, you have no scope of converting your idea into a reality. This is a bottle neck for entrepreneurs in India.

mayank 13y ago
Bottleneck, or opportunity?
- rikacomet 13y ago
  bottleneck for those who don't have either money or skill to take this opportunity.
- rikacomet 13y ago
  bottleneck for those who don't have either money or skill to take this opportunity.
dsuth 13y ago
That's because there's a step missing in your model, which goes like this: Idea --> Engineering/Design --> CAD File --> Prototype And the reason it doesn't get done that well in places like India and China at the moment is that it's not easy or quick to create a sustainable engineering sector that can reliably take ideas to a working prototype stage. China, and to a lesser extent India, will slowly develop this over the next 10-15 years I think, since Western companies are gifting them a huge amount of engineering knowledge in exchange for cheap engineering, or so-called High Value Engineering (HVE), but there are a few hurdles even so: 1. Education. 2. Cultural issues around problem solving.

at-fates-hands 13y ago

India reminds me a lot of what Taiwan used to be. About 10-15 years ago, they were a big joke when he came to cycle manufacturing. The quality of the bikes they produced and the factories there were horrible sweatshops. Then, they started getting better. They updated their technology, they had better trained workers to run the new machines. Then bike manufacturers started to see what was going on, and started moving big chunks of their manufacturing over there. Last time I checked, companies like Giant, Trek, and Specialized all have some of their manufacturing over there now. Their factories are some of the most advanced manufacturing plants in the world. I think India has the same potential, but its still about 3-5 years from realizing its own potential. It will be interesting to see if it can make the jump, or remain a great "what if. . " story line.

auctiontheory 13y ago
Education, infrastructure, and even basic literacy are at least an order of magnitude worse in India than in Taiwan.
- chailatte 13y ago
  taiwan also didn't also have the problem of 1.) large population 2.) squatters rights 3.) apathetic/spineless voters 4.) human fecal matters on the streets 5.) water shortage 6.) religious ferver 7.) entranched corruption 8.)....many more
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Taiwan and SK also had strong dictatorships until relatively recently; we aren't really talking about democracy until the 80s. Now, dictatorships are bad, but as long as the dictators are somewhat responsible, they do convey some amount of stability and economic development on the country that might not be possible (at that time) with a more chaotic democratic system. I'm not pro dictator, and I'm sure there was a more efficient path to prosperity that involved democracy, but this is just how it worked out. Today see China, or Singapore if you think maybe the Lee family has a bit too much power than is justified in a real democracy.

sridharvembu 13y ago

I am optimistic about India, in spite of all the problems. First, almost all the problems are accounted for by the $1200 GDP per capita. It is hard to visualize just how scarce resources are to solve problems when you are that poor. At the municipal level, annual budgets of $20-$30 per capita would be considered good in India, even in a relatively prosperous city (by Indian standards) like Chennai. Lack of hygiene and sanitation are almost entirely explained by that $20 per capita. If you read the history of cities like New York and London a century and a half ago, they had very similar problems to what a city like Chennai is going through. Now the reason for optimism: the skill level among young Indians is growing rapidly, thanks to the spread of basic education and growing aspiration among all classes of Indians. That is the foundation on which economic growth is built, and economic growth is the only way we are going to solve our other problems.

zapf 13y ago
No way man. If your daddy doesn't have money you can't get no education. If your daddy doesn't have money you can't enough vitamins to get the brain or the proteins to get the muscles to work properly. If your daddy doesn't have money you can't even shit with dignity. Without a middle class or a rich daddy, you are basically screwed. When 37% of Indians live below poverty line. I dunno how you think skill and nutrition levels are increasing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India#Poverty_estimates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India#Poverty_estima... To get India going, we need to do all the the article is saying - spend on food, health and eduction. But I would add the state needs to do that, private sector will just screw the poor further - no deliberately, but shit happens. Being optimistic is just that, optimistic.
- sridharvembu 13y ago
  All of the problems were much worse 35 years ago. Yet, in spite of all that, India has made progress. I assume you are very young - I am approaching 45, and I am more optimistic now than when I was at 25. I am not just being optimistic, I am putting my money and my time where my mouth is.

deleted 13y ago

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31reasons 13y ago

What I have learned is that Indians severely lack "social intelligence". I am not talking about the kind which makes you good with people. I am talking about, how much a person thinks that What is good for people surrounding you is also good for you. I think average indian's such intelligence is perhaps is in negative. I have seen people throw trash on the streets without any regard for others. Same goes for every other resources and issues. Each indian lives in a bubble of their own home, which is perfectly clean but total disregard anything outside the walls. There are some socially enlightened groups like Ugly Indians (https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Ugly-Indian/123459791046618 https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Ugly-Indian/1234597910466...) doing great work, which I hope extend to the entire country.

habosa 13y ago
It may be a lack of "social intelligence" as you say, but it could also be a result of Broken Windows Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory). What incentive does one person have to organize his/her trash when there are already massive burning piles in the street?
- 31reasons 13y ago
  Thats also a major cause. In fact Ugly Indian group has noticed similar effect. When they clean certain areas of the streets and improve it aesthetically, it stops being degraded to its original state more often than not.
- modarts 13y ago
  I feel that the concept of the "Tragedy of the Commons" more closely mirrors this aspect of "social intelligence" that the original commenter referred to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
sateesh 13y ago
I think the better term is "lack of civic sense". I don't think there is a lack of social intelligence or such thing, I see it more as a plain apathy to anyone other than self and one's kins.

anuraj 13y ago

India is too large a country with dysfunctional democracy and bureaucracy which is hard if not impossible to fix. Indian states are liguistically, culturally and ethnically separate republics. The true way out for India is to follow an EU style governance formula, where ethnic states become autonomous republics with a common parliament, common currency and common defence mechanism. Indian states once released from the shackles of a centralized bureaucracy can perform much better and develop faster. States like Kerala, Tamilnadu and Gujarat can achieve developed nation status with in few decades at most. Kerala alone can become a $250B economy from the current $65B if only it is allowed to mend its own affairs.

nnq 13y ago

I'm not Indian, but I truly hope that India rises above it's current economical level, for the good of the entire world. Having whole generations of very hard-working (too hard working!) young people that have grown with an unhealthy tolerance for very bad working conditions, work abuse and for bad living conditions decreases the quality of working conditions worldwide (or in EU and US at least) and enforces a stereotype that will only turn back to hurt the younger generations of Indians. My advice to qualified hard-working Indians (or any other qualified and educated people emigrating for a poorer country to a richer one): 1. be PROUD of yourself, don't be willing to work for 2x less just because you've just immigrated to an EU country or to the US (or for 10x less if you're working in your home country for an outsourcer)! you don't deserve less! 2. stop selling yourself with the "I can work really hard" label on your head - every employer and manager will respect you less as a human being if you do so, even if they may value you more (as in "business value", not human value!). (let me tell you something: even if business owners and top managers paint themselves as hard working guys, they just do it to project this image to their employees - 50% didn't get there by working hard, but by working smart an by good delegation and externalizing skills; only 10% probably got there by sheer hard work; and the other 40%... let's just say you don't want them as your role models :) ) 3. once you get to a certain skill level, grow a bit of smugness, pride and condescendence for God's sake (it's healthy for you, trust me!), and try to wear the "reluctant genius" hat form time to time instead of the "hard working bee" one, even if it's not who you are - it teaches people the value, scarcity and tricky nature of "high quality wetware", it teaches that they have to pay top dollars for brainpower and accept that it will not always work as they want it and they just have to put up with this! 4. don't be afraid to show Uncle Sam the finger if you get caught in an US VISA trap, like being unable to quit your job because you'll loose your H1B VISA or something - this is demeaning and you shouldn't work in a country that puts you in such a situation, even if you'd earn more and learn more than anywhere else! You shouldn't because you don't have to: the "rich" world is bigger than the US: there's Canada, Europe, Australia, rising economies in South American countries etc. Be angry, but also be proud and don't sell yourself short even if it hurts you in the short run - by asking for more and doing less you're actually making the world a better place for your children, even if it seems against your intuition and values!

rtpg 13y ago

newernpguy 13y ago

India has a talented workforce in search of the next big industry, or the country will become a one-trick pony

invdevm 13y ago

Whatever the people are saying about is right. But consider this point, inspite of all these bottlenecks, India is growing rapidly. Can people of US or China remain united if 3000 languages are spoken in one country alone? After US denied India the supercomputers, we built one of the finest one in a very short time and that too with very little money. And sorry NASA, you cannot match ISRO.

invdevm 13y ago

Just that the Economist published this article, doesn't mean that India is going down. Look at yourself, US sponsored the terrorism in Afghanistan and what was the result of that- WTC attack.

general_failure 13y ago

The biggest problem with India is the lack of nationalism. Most Indians are not proud of India. If they were, all it's problems would get fixed for real. India is like 'Europe' - each state is a country of it's own. My solution to the whole problem is to spin off many states into separate countries. The people would be lot happier that way - most don't want to live together anyway. And then have some sort of schengen visa to enable free movement between states. 'State' level nationalism is a lot lot lot more than 'Country' level nationalism.