4 ms·

Having lived in Germany (Muenster) for 4 months, I noticed they have many such laws Americans would be aghast at. For example: blue laws that enforce family fri

Having lived in Germany (Muenster) for 4 months, I noticed they have many such laws Americans would be aghast at. For example: blue laws that enforce family friendly working hours for stores (i.e. 9-6), laws that keep your employer from snooping on you, a two year required warranty on consumer electronics. It comes down to how you want to live your life. While Zuck bombastically preaches that "privacy is dead" and the rest of us American sheeple fall in line, those in Germany have seen the worst of authoritarianism under the Nazis and the Soviets and have chosen how they want to live. Not a bad idea.

mmcnickle 13y ago
> a two year required warranty on consumer electronics This isn't limited to Germany, it's a European-wide directive. And I fail to see how it can be viewed as negative.
- gnarbarian 13y ago
  It drives up prices. I prefer having a choice. I don't need a 2 year warranty on simple cheap devices. But the warranty is always there for a small price for the important things (like my motherboard or laptop). Often times the additional cost of the mandatory warranty will put a product out of reach for people who would be happy with the mfr's standard warranty.
  - michaelt 13y ago
    Warranty replacement costs are proportional to failure rate - for example, if 1% of devices will fail within 2 years, warranty costs would add 1% to the cost price. What sort of electronics products have a failure rate so high that the costs of a 2 year warranty is anything but trivial?
    - gnarbarian 13y ago
      I am typing on a cheap Logitech K120 keyboard I got at Walmart. (at work I have a nice WASD[1] keyboard) I spent about $10 on this keyboard. if it stopped working in the next two years I wouldn't want to even bother dealing with the warranty mailing it back and waiting weeks for the replacement to arrive. I'd just throw it out and go buy another $10 keyboard. 1) http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/ http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/
      - epsylon 13y ago
        I'd say that you chose a poor example as Logitech's customer service (in Europe at least) is second to none. They will send you replacements for free very easily, while asking only minimal proofs (usually your serial number is enough). I know plenty of people who got their mouse or keyboard replaced in a few days after contacting customer service, without being asked to send the defective one.
pbhjpbhj 13y ago
>a two year required warranty // Excellent.
runjake 13y ago
I'm an American and none of those even begin to put me aghast. We're not all right-wing, war-monging cowboys with gun racks. Conversely, we're not all Occupy protestors carrying protest signs 24/7. Don't pay attention to the media.
anExcitedBeast 13y ago
Yes, strict laws on private behavior certainly keeps authoritarianism at bay. Personally, between free speech and a two year warranty, I go for the former.
aghast 13y ago
I don't think you know what "aghast" means.
- twistedpair 13y ago
  Perhaps "aghast" was overblown. My point was that we're capitalists. Government should only intervene to prevent others from harming me or my property as the base understanding of the word. Who is the government to tell me the hours I can operate my business, the restrictions I can enforce on my employees, what I can coerce people into buying, or how others can exploit my likeness? They might all seem like sensible restrictions in Europe, but I've known a good many Americans who want to retain that freedom, even if it leaves our life expediencies behind the third world at the end of the day. Finally, I threw in the authoritarianism regime reference as an example of the extremes that society can find itself in. Germany, as a wealthy, highly educated country has made the decision that they want to live well in many ways at the cost of some "freedoms" that we defend. While we're "free," I must admit that I passed twelve homeless people today on the way to work while I never saw a one my entire stent in Germany. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but it is a different way of thinking that you must consider before you blast their Bild law.
jacoblyles 13y ago
When the government dictates what hours you can keep your store open, that sounds authoritarian to me.
- Xylakant 13y ago
  There's two sides of the medal: In general, I do agree with you. However, large store chains (think walmart) have a larger lever in the power game between employer and employee, so they can force long working hours. The idea was to prevent that. The laws have been relaxed very much though - in Berlin there's 24h supermarkets and stores that open on sundays. However, in the smaller towns stores still close at 6 or 8, but it's more of a habit than a law.
  - twistedpair 13y ago
    Don't forget that Walmart tried opening their stores in Germany and then pulled out.
    - Xylakant 13y ago
      Sure. They broke a couple of laws and tried to enforce some company policies that are actually not acceptable in germany. They were taken to court and lost and later sold off all their stores and left.

mmcnickle 13y ago

> a two year required warranty on consumer electronics This isn't limited to Germany, it's a European-wide directive. And I fail to see how it can be viewed as negative.

gnarbarian 13y ago
It drives up prices. I prefer having a choice. I don't need a 2 year warranty on simple cheap devices. But the warranty is always there for a small price for the important things (like my motherboard or laptop). Often times the additional cost of the mandatory warranty will put a product out of reach for people who would be happy with the mfr's standard warranty.
- michaelt 13y ago
  Warranty replacement costs are proportional to failure rate - for example, if 1% of devices will fail within 2 years, warranty costs would add 1% to the cost price. What sort of electronics products have a failure rate so high that the costs of a 2 year warranty is anything but trivial?
  - gnarbarian 13y ago
    I am typing on a cheap Logitech K120 keyboard I got at Walmart. (at work I have a nice WASD[1] keyboard) I spent about $10 on this keyboard. if it stopped working in the next two years I wouldn't want to even bother dealing with the warranty mailing it back and waiting weeks for the replacement to arrive. I'd just throw it out and go buy another $10 keyboard. 1) http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/ http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/
    - epsylon 13y ago
      I'd say that you chose a poor example as Logitech's customer service (in Europe at least) is second to none. They will send you replacements for free very easily, while asking only minimal proofs (usually your serial number is enough). I know plenty of people who got their mouse or keyboard replaced in a few days after contacting customer service, without being asked to send the defective one.

pbhjpbhj 13y ago

>a two year required warranty // Excellent.

runjake 13y ago

I'm an American and none of those even begin to put me aghast. We're not all right-wing, war-monging cowboys with gun racks. Conversely, we're not all Occupy protestors carrying protest signs 24/7. Don't pay attention to the media.

anExcitedBeast 13y ago

Yes, strict laws on private behavior certainly keeps authoritarianism at bay. Personally, between free speech and a two year warranty, I go for the former.

aghast 13y ago

I don't think you know what "aghast" means.

twistedpair 13y ago
Perhaps "aghast" was overblown. My point was that we're capitalists. Government should only intervene to prevent others from harming me or my property as the base understanding of the word. Who is the government to tell me the hours I can operate my business, the restrictions I can enforce on my employees, what I can coerce people into buying, or how others can exploit my likeness? They might all seem like sensible restrictions in Europe, but I've known a good many Americans who want to retain that freedom, even if it leaves our life expediencies behind the third world at the end of the day. Finally, I threw in the authoritarianism regime reference as an example of the extremes that society can find itself in. Germany, as a wealthy, highly educated country has made the decision that they want to live well in many ways at the cost of some "freedoms" that we defend. While we're "free," I must admit that I passed twelve homeless people today on the way to work while I never saw a one my entire stent in Germany. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but it is a different way of thinking that you must consider before you blast their Bild law.

jacoblyles 13y ago

When the government dictates what hours you can keep your store open, that sounds authoritarian to me.

Xylakant 13y ago
There's two sides of the medal: In general, I do agree with you. However, large store chains (think walmart) have a larger lever in the power game between employer and employee, so they can force long working hours. The idea was to prevent that. The laws have been relaxed very much though - in Berlin there's 24h supermarkets and stores that open on sundays. However, in the smaller towns stores still close at 6 or 8, but it's more of a habit than a law.
- twistedpair 13y ago
  Don't forget that Walmart tried opening their stores in Germany and then pulled out.
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    Sure. They broke a couple of laws and tried to enforce some company policies that are actually not acceptable in germany. They were taken to court and lost and later sold off all their stores and left.