9 ms·

A bill in Congress legalizes cell phone unlocking and fixes the DMCA

501 points by sinak 13y ago

Guvante 13y ago
It would be nice if the Digital Millennium Copyright Act only applied to Copyright violations.
- phantom784 13y ago
  That would make sense, and it's analogous to the laws in some states where it's legal to own lockpicks and use them on locks you own, but if you get caught with them while breaking & entering, the lockpicks become illegal.
spoiledtechie 13y ago
Email Sent.
- ericb 13y ago
  Emails will be ignored. Call them. They notice that.
  - nanodeath 13y ago
    I'm not sure I agree. Every email I've sent from a site like this actually does get a reply a few days later.
    - ericb 13y ago
      And that's how you know you've made a big impression on their autoresponder. ;-)
rosser 13y ago
If you want this to pass, don't sign the petition, and don't email or write your congresscritter. Call them. Interact with a human being in their office. Anecdotally, that has a much greater impact. (Source: my cousin and his wife were congressional staffers for several years.)
- sachinag 13y ago
  The reason this is, BTW, is that calling isn't scalable. Any idiot can fire off emails or print petitions or print and mail letters (albeit with a budget). Fielding calls is a huge pain in the ass and can be linked - via area code+prefix, among others - to a specific district.
  - sinak 13y ago
    Ah, a budget ... what I would give to have one of those :). More seriously though, I have definite plans to build a click-to-call tool in the next couple of weeks, but this news was sprung on my late yesterday, leading to a mad rush to get that page ready in time for this morning. Next time there's an action like this for FixtheDMCA, there'll definitely be a way to call. And if I build it I'll almost certainly open source it so others can do the same. Sunlight Labs have a great API for looking up rep's phone numbers that means its really just a Twilio integration away.
    - awj 13y ago
      > More seriously though, I have definite plans to build a click-to-call tool in the next couple of weeks I'm not sure how you do this on Android, but for the iPhone it couldn't be much simpler[1]. Also, most mobile devices will detect and enable any phone number they find on the page, so just putting it there and easy to find is often enough. [1] http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#featuredarticles/iPhoneURLScheme_Reference/Articles/PhoneLinks.html http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#featuredarticles/iPh...
      - randall 13y ago
        I think they meant to allow click to call from any device, ala Twilio.
      - toomuchtodo 13y ago
        I wonder how much demand there is in the tech community for both an iOS and Android app that receives push notifications that drop you right into the UX to make the call when a campaign of calls is necessary due to pending legislation.
scott_meade 13y ago
If someone has information that they only want certain people to see, would circumventing a technological measure that controls access to that information be allowed under this bill? For example, internal documents, trade secrets and documents under NDAs? If someone has information they only want licensed people to see, would circumventing a technological measure that controls access to that information be allowed under this bill? For example, publishers of stock market analysis which is released only to licensed subscribers.
- darkarmani 13y ago
  Why do you need the DMCA to protect these things?
  - scott_meade 13y ago
    I'm asking for clarification of the impact of this bill. Do you know the answers to those two questions off hand?
    - Zigurd 13y ago
      Why would you expose such information in a way that it is protected only by a mechanism that the public has access to? It seems like you are asking if fixing the DMCA would remove protection for irresponsible behavior.
      - pyre 13y ago
        IIRC, the DMCA makes it a criminal act, whereas otherwise it might only be governed by civil law. If I'm contractually obligated to only read a stock market report myself, but I show it to a friend, do I deserve jail time, or just to get sued?
    - msg 13y ago
      How could you know the answer to a legal question offhand? Is this FUD? The point of DMCA anti-circumvention is that it makes a crime out of things that were otherwise legal, not tack on charges to things that are illegal for other reasons. FTFA: "- It amends Section 1201 to make it clear that it is completely legal to "circumvent" if there is no copyright infringement. "- It legalizes tools and services that enable circumvention as long as they are intended for non-infringing uses. "- It changes Copyright Law to specify that unlocking cell phones is not copyright infringement." Or you could read the text the bill adds to DMCA: It is not a violation of this section to use, manu- 8 facture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise 9 traffic in any technology, product, service, device, compo- 10 nent, or part thereof that is primarily designed or pro- 11 duced for the purpose of facilitating noninfringing uses of 12 works protected under this title by circumventing a tech- 13 nological measure that effectively controls access to that 14 work, unless it is the intent of the person that uses, manu- 15 factures, imports, offers to the public, provides, or traffics 16 in the technology, product, service, device, component, or 17 part to infringe copyright or to facilitate the infringement 18 of a copyright.’’. emphasis added by me.
azat_co 13y ago
I was with fixthedmca and grassroots.io during StartupBus and Sina works at the same office with me — the cause is important and the new design is very good!
plainOldText 13y ago
Equally important after signing the petition is sharing it on social networks; you know so that the effort gets amplified.
kmfrk 13y ago
Now is a good time to show that people are capable at passing legislation instead of blocking it. It's easier to enshrine rights in law than to oppose every iteration of PIPA and CISPA, every time they try to let it slip through unnoticed.
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  It would give me hope for America's technological future if this one can be pushed through.
ebbv 13y ago
This legislation doesn't entirely fix the DMCA. It fixes some problems but more remain. Copyright is some seriously fucked up shit right now. It has been dominated by big money interests for the last 50 years.
- rhizome 13y ago
  There is a hidden agenda in saying that this "fixes the DMCA." It has a morass of serious issues untouched by these modifications.
  - mratzloff 13y ago
    Such as..? Not disagreeing, but you're begging the question.
    - d23 13y ago
      I don't see that anyone asked him a question...
      - mratzloff 13y ago
        >> It has a morass of serious issues untouched by these modifications. > Such as..?
        d23 13y ago
        Err, that's not what begging the question means. It means you are avoiding a question. I didn't realize he was using it in the colliqual way since it was kind of a strange way of using it there too (it's usually in the form "that begs the question: X?").
        mratzloff 13y ago
        @d23: You are correct, I used "begging the question" incorrectly, raising the ire of HN language pedants everywhere. :-p
    - 13y ago
Grognak 13y ago
Is there any reason not to support this? What negative impacts could this have towards the companies that this effects?
- heironimus 13y ago
  I want to know this too. When I see thing like "This fixes the DMCA", it makes me question the intentions of the advocating website. It sounds too good to be true.
  - sinak 13y ago
    Hey, I'm the FixtheDMCA founder. I set the whole thing up, and really I don't have any ulterior motives. When I was in college (2003-2006), I wrote and sold software to unlock Motorola phones (back when the RAZR was big). It was my first startup, and was a lot of fun to build. But about a year in I was sent a cease and desist by Motorola for violating the DMCA, even though there was no copyright infringement involved. A very lovely lawyer by the name of Jennifer Granick at Stanford Cyberlaw helped me out pro bono, the case was dropped, and Jennifer went on to petition the Librarian of Congress to have an exemption for unlocking added. That exemption was granted in 2006, renewed in 2009, then dropped in 2012. I haven't been in the unlocking business for a long time, but I thought I should do something about it. I started the WH petition, which got 114k signatures and a positive response from the WH. But I realized that the real culprit is DMCA Section 1201, it really is just a really poorly written law, and it effects a whole load of people. So, with the help of some friends (shout outs to Azat, Joe, Austin and Dmitri) we threw up the FixtheDMCA site over the course of three days, and I've been maintaining it since. Meanwhile I've been trying to coordinate with folks like the EFF and Public Knowledge who are pushing things on the DC side. For me it's kind of a fun break from startups, and I kind of feel like it's paying back the favor J. Granick did to me back when I was a college student. I would really love to hear some decent, reasoned arguments why the DMCA shouldn't be fixed (and by fixed I mean limited to cases of copyright infringement only), as I think at a certain point the content lobbies will probably start making them and I'd love to have responses ready.
    - 13y ago
davvolun 13y ago
"As a constitutient, I write today to urge you to support the the.." Seriously? C'mon!
- sinak 13y ago
  Haha, I can fortunately plass off blame to EFF for writing that. I'll fix it now :). Edit: Should be fixed now.
  - davvolun 13y ago
    Thanks, for both the original and the fix.
metavida 13y ago
If you prefer, here's the bill on POPVOX https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/hr1892/ https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/hr1892/ Also makes it very easy to contact your representative.
maerF0x0 13y ago
And for canadians: http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=5227186 http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Lan...
peapicker 13y ago
For a second I thought this was an April Fool's day post!
DigitalSea 13y ago
History has taught us if you want to change something within Congress, you need a lot of lobbying cash to buy off as many key votes as possible. While it makes sense to allow cell phone unlocking (here in Australia it's legal) I have a feeling those who benefit off of locking you in will be spending some of their lobby change as well. That's not to say the bill won't pass though, there is still a chance if enough people make enough noise and ask questions, flood the airway.
gluxon 13y ago
This is very dangerous. Just from the first paragraph of the page, it is stated that the bill will allow all types of software modification. A bill like this will have a very hard time passing. This was originally suppose to be only about unlocking cell phones for use with other carriers. Now conditions have been added that make the bill very arguable. It is asking for more than we can take. Companies like Apple and Sony will be very likely against this. Every part of me wants this to pass, but this bill is sadly unlikely to. ... sadface
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
incompatible 13y ago
Perhaps it would also have been useful if they had addressed the pre-1972 recording issue that came up recently. I.e., they don't appear to be covered by the DMCA safe-harbor provision, leading to unintended liability. See: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/court-denies-grooveshark-dmca-protection-for-songs-like-johnny-b-goode/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/court-denies-groo...
dlitz 13y ago
One of the most important things about this bill is that it takes care of the anti-circumvention provisions in a general way, rather than narrowly targeting cell phone unlocking. > (3) It is not a violation of this section to use, manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof that is primarily designed or pro- duced for the purpose of facilitating noninfringing uses of works protected under this title by circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to that work, unless it is the intent of the person that uses, manufactures, imports, offers to the public, provides, or traffics in the technology, product, service, device, component, or part to infringe copyright or to facilitate the infringement of a copyright.

501 points by sinak 13y ago

Guvante 13y ago

It would be nice if the Digital Millennium Copyright Act only applied to Copyright violations.

phantom784 13y ago
That would make sense, and it's analogous to the laws in some states where it's legal to own lockpicks and use them on locks you own, but if you get caught with them while breaking & entering, the lockpicks become illegal.

spoiledtechie 13y ago

Email Sent.

ericb 13y ago
Emails will be ignored. Call them. They notice that.
- nanodeath 13y ago
  I'm not sure I agree. Every email I've sent from a site like this actually does get a reply a few days later.
  - ericb 13y ago
    And that's how you know you've made a big impression on their autoresponder. ;-)

rosser 13y ago

If you want this to pass, don't sign the petition, and don't email or write your congresscritter. Call them. Interact with a human being in their office. Anecdotally, that has a much greater impact. (Source: my cousin and his wife were congressional staffers for several years.)

sachinag 13y ago
The reason this is, BTW, is that calling isn't scalable. Any idiot can fire off emails or print petitions or print and mail letters (albeit with a budget). Fielding calls is a huge pain in the ass and can be linked - via area code+prefix, among others - to a specific district.
- sinak 13y ago
  Ah, a budget ... what I would give to have one of those :). More seriously though, I have definite plans to build a click-to-call tool in the next couple of weeks, but this news was sprung on my late yesterday, leading to a mad rush to get that page ready in time for this morning. Next time there's an action like this for FixtheDMCA, there'll definitely be a way to call. And if I build it I'll almost certainly open source it so others can do the same. Sunlight Labs have a great API for looking up rep's phone numbers that means its really just a Twilio integration away.
  - awj 13y ago
    > More seriously though, I have definite plans to build a click-to-call tool in the next couple of weeks I'm not sure how you do this on Android, but for the iPhone it couldn't be much simpler[1]. Also, most mobile devices will detect and enable any phone number they find on the page, so just putting it there and easy to find is often enough. [1] http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#featuredarticles/iPhoneURLScheme_Reference/Articles/PhoneLinks.html http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#featuredarticles/iPh...
    - randall 13y ago
      I think they meant to allow click to call from any device, ala Twilio.
    - toomuchtodo 13y ago
      I wonder how much demand there is in the tech community for both an iOS and Android app that receives push notifications that drop you right into the UX to make the call when a campaign of calls is necessary due to pending legislation.

scott_meade 13y ago

If someone has information that they only want certain people to see, would circumventing a technological measure that controls access to that information be allowed under this bill? For example, internal documents, trade secrets and documents under NDAs? If someone has information they only want licensed people to see, would circumventing a technological measure that controls access to that information be allowed under this bill? For example, publishers of stock market analysis which is released only to licensed subscribers.

darkarmani 13y ago
Why do you need the DMCA to protect these things?
- scott_meade 13y ago
  I'm asking for clarification of the impact of this bill. Do you know the answers to those two questions off hand?
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    Why would you expose such information in a way that it is protected only by a mechanism that the public has access to? It seems like you are asking if fixing the DMCA would remove protection for irresponsible behavior.
    - pyre 13y ago
      IIRC, the DMCA makes it a criminal act, whereas otherwise it might only be governed by civil law. If I'm contractually obligated to only read a stock market report myself, but I show it to a friend, do I deserve jail time, or just to get sued?
  - msg 13y ago
    How could you know the answer to a legal question offhand? Is this FUD? The point of DMCA anti-circumvention is that it makes a crime out of things that were otherwise legal, not tack on charges to things that are illegal for other reasons. FTFA: "- It amends Section 1201 to make it clear that it is completely legal to "circumvent" if there is no copyright infringement. "- It legalizes tools and services that enable circumvention as long as they are intended for non-infringing uses. "- It changes Copyright Law to specify that unlocking cell phones is not copyright infringement." Or you could read the text the bill adds to DMCA: It is not a violation of this section to use, manu- 8 facture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise 9 traffic in any technology, product, service, device, compo- 10 nent, or part thereof that is primarily designed or pro- 11 duced for the purpose of facilitating noninfringing uses of 12 works protected under this title by circumventing a tech- 13 nological measure that effectively controls access to that 14 work, unless it is the intent of the person that uses, manu- 15 factures, imports, offers to the public, provides, or traffics 16 in the technology, product, service, device, component, or 17 part to infringe copyright or to facilitate the infringement 18 of a copyright.’’. emphasis added by me.

azat_co 13y ago

I was with fixthedmca and grassroots.io during StartupBus and Sina works at the same office with me — the cause is important and the new design is very good!

plainOldText 13y ago

Equally important after signing the petition is sharing it on social networks; you know so that the effort gets amplified.

kmfrk 13y ago

Now is a good time to show that people are capable at passing legislation instead of blocking it. It's easier to enshrine rights in law than to oppose every iteration of PIPA and CISPA, every time they try to let it slip through unnoticed.

GhotiFish 13y ago
It would give me hope for America's technological future if this one can be pushed through.

ebbv 13y ago

This legislation doesn't entirely fix the DMCA. It fixes some problems but more remain. Copyright is some seriously fucked up shit right now. It has been dominated by big money interests for the last 50 years.

rhizome 13y ago
There is a hidden agenda in saying that this "fixes the DMCA." It has a morass of serious issues untouched by these modifications.
- mratzloff 13y ago
  Such as..? Not disagreeing, but you're begging the question.
  - d23 13y ago
    I don't see that anyone asked him a question...
    - mratzloff 13y ago
      >> It has a morass of serious issues untouched by these modifications. > Such as..?
      - d23 13y ago
        Err, that's not what begging the question means. It means you are avoiding a question. I didn't realize he was using it in the colliqual way since it was kind of a strange way of using it there too (it's usually in the form "that begs the question: X?").
      - mratzloff 13y ago
        @d23: You are correct, I used "begging the question" incorrectly, raising the ire of HN language pedants everywhere. :-p
  - 13y ago

Grognak 13y ago

Is there any reason not to support this? What negative impacts could this have towards the companies that this effects?

heironimus 13y ago
I want to know this too. When I see thing like "This fixes the DMCA", it makes me question the intentions of the advocating website. It sounds too good to be true.
- sinak 13y ago
  Hey, I'm the FixtheDMCA founder. I set the whole thing up, and really I don't have any ulterior motives. When I was in college (2003-2006), I wrote and sold software to unlock Motorola phones (back when the RAZR was big). It was my first startup, and was a lot of fun to build. But about a year in I was sent a cease and desist by Motorola for violating the DMCA, even though there was no copyright infringement involved. A very lovely lawyer by the name of Jennifer Granick at Stanford Cyberlaw helped me out pro bono, the case was dropped, and Jennifer went on to petition the Librarian of Congress to have an exemption for unlocking added. That exemption was granted in 2006, renewed in 2009, then dropped in 2012. I haven't been in the unlocking business for a long time, but I thought I should do something about it. I started the WH petition, which got 114k signatures and a positive response from the WH. But I realized that the real culprit is DMCA Section 1201, it really is just a really poorly written law, and it effects a whole load of people. So, with the help of some friends (shout outs to Azat, Joe, Austin and Dmitri) we threw up the FixtheDMCA site over the course of three days, and I've been maintaining it since. Meanwhile I've been trying to coordinate with folks like the EFF and Public Knowledge who are pushing things on the DC side. For me it's kind of a fun break from startups, and I kind of feel like it's paying back the favor J. Granick did to me back when I was a college student. I would really love to hear some decent, reasoned arguments why the DMCA shouldn't be fixed (and by fixed I mean limited to cases of copyright infringement only), as I think at a certain point the content lobbies will probably start making them and I'd love to have responses ready.
  - 13y ago

davvolun 13y ago

"As a constitutient, I write today to urge you to support the the.." Seriously? C'mon!

sinak 13y ago
Haha, I can fortunately plass off blame to EFF for writing that. I'll fix it now :). Edit: Should be fixed now.
- davvolun 13y ago
  Thanks, for both the original and the fix.

metavida 13y ago

If you prefer, here's the bill on POPVOX https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/hr1892/ https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/hr1892/ Also makes it very easy to contact your representative.

maerF0x0 13y ago

And for canadians: http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=5227186 http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Lan...

peapicker 13y ago

For a second I thought this was an April Fool's day post!

DigitalSea 13y ago

History has taught us if you want to change something within Congress, you need a lot of lobbying cash to buy off as many key votes as possible. While it makes sense to allow cell phone unlocking (here in Australia it's legal) I have a feeling those who benefit off of locking you in will be spending some of their lobby change as well. That's not to say the bill won't pass though, there is still a chance if enough people make enough noise and ask questions, flood the airway.

gluxon 13y ago

This is very dangerous. Just from the first paragraph of the page, it is stated that the bill will allow all types of software modification. A bill like this will have a very hard time passing. This was originally suppose to be only about unlocking cell phones for use with other carriers. Now conditions have been added that make the bill very arguable. It is asking for more than we can take. Companies like Apple and Sony will be very likely against this. Every part of me wants this to pass, but this bill is sadly unlikely to. ... sadface

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

incompatible 13y ago

Perhaps it would also have been useful if they had addressed the pre-1972 recording issue that came up recently. I.e., they don't appear to be covered by the DMCA safe-harbor provision, leading to unintended liability. See: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/court-denies-grooveshark-dmca-protection-for-songs-like-johnny-b-goode/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/court-denies-groo...

dlitz 13y ago

One of the most important things about this bill is that it takes care of the anti-circumvention provisions in a general way, rather than narrowly targeting cell phone unlocking. > (3) It is not a violation of this section to use, manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof that is primarily designed or pro- duced for the purpose of facilitating noninfringing uses of works protected under this title by circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to that work, unless it is the intent of the person that uses, manufactures, imports, offers to the public, provides, or traffics in the technology, product, service, device, component, or part to infringe copyright or to facilitate the infringement of a copyright.