10 ms·

> Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? In an estab

by maratd 13y ago

> Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills. No company is an island onto itself. Companies have partners, large clients, relationships, etc. Bottom line? To keep existing product lines healthy, you must pay respect to your loyalties. You start seeing the behavior of purposefully undermining the new product to keep the old alive and kicking. You start using sub-standard parts, just to keep purchasing from the same suppliers. You keep on old hands that actively despise the new way of doing things. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Frequently, starting with a clean slate is a huge competitive advantage. No baggage.

bitwize 13y ago
It's easy for anyone to build and sell Linux PCs out of their home. Don't expect Dell or HP to do it, outside of limited-market "test releases".
newbie12 13y ago
Plus no autoworkers' union, and no inefficient dealer network.
- joezydeco 13y ago
  He's still got an uphill battle on the dealer network thing. North Carolina being the latest problem: http://insideevs.com/hearing-on-tesla-selling-cars-in-north-carolina-set-for-may-7th-but-you-can-take-action-now/ http://insideevs.com/hearing-on-tesla-selling-cars-in-north-...
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    Sometimes I am embarrassed to be from North Carolina. sigh For the record, not all of North Carolina is so backwards.
    - joezydeco 13y ago
      Don't sweat it. It actually has less to do about NC's citizens and a lot more to do with how the auto industry has dug it's claws into the legislatures of every state in the union. Your state isn't the only one in this situation. FYI this is a good podcast explaining how we got to this point: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/12/171814201/episode-435-why-buying-a-car-is-so-awful http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/12/171814201/episode-...
      - alexqgb 13y ago
        The exact same fight is being waged in Texas by the established dealers there. Here's a little known but closely related fact about Congress: its membership has long contained a disproportionate number of car dealers, which leads to "wins" for America like this: "Last summer...Congress approved a financial reform bill that specifically exempted auto dealers’ financing from regulation." http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/04/11/3948/6-car-dealers-congress-industry-revs-horsepower-capitol-hill http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/04/11/3948/6-car-dealers... This raises the larger point about car finance in general, which has become the heart and soul of the business. Essentially, the major car companies have become banks with manufacturing wings attached. The interests, skills, and motivations of their senior ranks tend to reflect this non-automotive set of priorities, so it's no wonder that Musk was able to poach serious talent. People who have obsessed about cars their entire lives finally found an employer who wouldn't leave them to die on the vine. Which brings us back to point #1 about business in general: it's not about what's on the table. It's what's in the chairs.
        khafra 13y ago
        > Here's a little known but closely related fact about Congress: its membership has long contained a disproportionate number of car dealers, which leads to "wins" for America like this: "Last summer...Congress approved a financial reform bill that specifically exempted auto dealers’ financing from regulation." I'd never heard that before, but somehow, that Congress is full of used car salesmen is the least surprising fact I've learned in a long time.
        13y ago
  - Mizza 13y ago
    And in Virginia, where they were denied a dealer license despite the investigators recommendation that it was in the public interest, seemingly because of an existing relationship between the DMV head and the dealership association's directors: https://openwatch.net/i/40/why-did-the-virginia-dmv-deny-tesla-motors-a-dea https://openwatch.net/i/40/why-did-the-virginia-dmv-deny-tes...
- speleding 13y ago
  Add to that the ability to set up shop wherever is most convenient: http://elonmusktesla.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/tesla-motors-to-expand-european-operations/ http://elonmusktesla.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/tesla-motors-t...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- 127001brewer 13y ago
  The real question to me is why are [Apple] not doing anything half as cool as what Musk has done in the past 10 years. I don't understand: what hasn't Apple done that isn't "half as cool"? Clearly, the iPad alone is a significant product that has literally changed the computing industry.
  - obviouslygreen 13y ago
    "Cool," perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes, it's just a big iPhone (or, really, an iPod Touch). It hasn't "changed the computing industry." It's introduced a new line of the same products we had before. "Let's make a bigger one" was a really great idea, but it's not really in the same league.
    - cbr 13y ago
      The Model S is "Cool", perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes, it's just a new kind of car that doesn't use gas (really, a big golf cart). It won't "change the automotive industry." It's introducing a new line of the same products we had before. With the Model S you still have roads, parking, large upfront costs, a driver, and traffic. The only difference is fuel. Minor. (I'm all for the Model S, but I think you're putting much too high a standard on "innovative".)
      - dublinben 13y ago
        That's not true. Tesla is significantly disrupting the archaic dealership model. They sell their cars directly, over the internet, and from corporate-owned showrooms.
        13y ago
GFischer 13y ago
Clayton Christensen at its finest :) http://www.claytonchristensen.com/books/the-innovators-dilemma/ http://www.claytonchristensen.com/books/the-innovators-dilem...
- state 13y ago
  My thought exactly.
- dkrich 13y ago
  I don't think this really speaks to his point though. It's not as if the Tesla is less expensive or disruptive in any way. It's a superior product in almost every way. I don't think the innovator's dilemma applies here. I think the OP glosses over a lot of very complicated engineering and the fact the founder also happened to found a God damned space company.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    So ... you're saying that Musk has disrupted disruption by turning the model on its head? He took long-established product. And sold a _less_ capable, _more_ expensive version (the Roadster). And used that to sell a _slightly_ more expensive, but _more_ capable product (Model S). Aiming eventually for a comparably priced product with far better capabilities, but at mass-market marque. That's actually somewhat like the Apple model, so it's not completely novel. But we're not used to thinking of cars as high-tech products (or at least haven't been for a century or so).
stcredzero 13y ago
> In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills. In other words, the firm already is sitting on top of a machine that prints money. Of course the first instinct shouts, "Don't rock the boat!"

by maratd 13y ago

bitwize 13y ago

It's easy for anyone to build and sell Linux PCs out of their home. Don't expect Dell or HP to do it, outside of limited-market "test releases".

newbie12 13y ago

Plus no autoworkers' union, and no inefficient dealer network.

joezydeco 13y ago
He's still got an uphill battle on the dealer network thing. North Carolina being the latest problem: http://insideevs.com/hearing-on-tesla-selling-cars-in-north-carolina-set-for-may-7th-but-you-can-take-action-now/ http://insideevs.com/hearing-on-tesla-selling-cars-in-north-...
- mindcrime 13y ago
  Sometimes I am embarrassed to be from North Carolina. sigh For the record, not all of North Carolina is so backwards.
  - joezydeco 13y ago
    Don't sweat it. It actually has less to do about NC's citizens and a lot more to do with how the auto industry has dug it's claws into the legislatures of every state in the union. Your state isn't the only one in this situation. FYI this is a good podcast explaining how we got to this point: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/12/171814201/episode-435-why-buying-a-car-is-so-awful http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/12/171814201/episode-...
    - alexqgb 13y ago
      The exact same fight is being waged in Texas by the established dealers there. Here's a little known but closely related fact about Congress: its membership has long contained a disproportionate number of car dealers, which leads to "wins" for America like this: "Last summer...Congress approved a financial reform bill that specifically exempted auto dealers’ financing from regulation." http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/04/11/3948/6-car-dealers-congress-industry-revs-horsepower-capitol-hill http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/04/11/3948/6-car-dealers... This raises the larger point about car finance in general, which has become the heart and soul of the business. Essentially, the major car companies have become banks with manufacturing wings attached. The interests, skills, and motivations of their senior ranks tend to reflect this non-automotive set of priorities, so it's no wonder that Musk was able to poach serious talent. People who have obsessed about cars their entire lives finally found an employer who wouldn't leave them to die on the vine. Which brings us back to point #1 about business in general: it's not about what's on the table. It's what's in the chairs.
      - khafra 13y ago
        > Here's a little known but closely related fact about Congress: its membership has long contained a disproportionate number of car dealers, which leads to "wins" for America like this: "Last summer...Congress approved a financial reform bill that specifically exempted auto dealers’ financing from regulation." I'd never heard that before, but somehow, that Congress is full of used car salesmen is the least surprising fact I've learned in a long time.
      - 13y ago
- Mizza 13y ago
  And in Virginia, where they were denied a dealer license despite the investigators recommendation that it was in the public interest, seemingly because of an existing relationship between the DMV head and the dealership association's directors: https://openwatch.net/i/40/why-did-the-virginia-dmv-deny-tesla-motors-a-dea https://openwatch.net/i/40/why-did-the-virginia-dmv-deny-tes...
speleding 13y ago
Add to that the ability to set up shop wherever is most convenient: http://elonmusktesla.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/tesla-motors-to-expand-european-operations/ http://elonmusktesla.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/tesla-motors-t...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

127001brewer 13y ago
The real question to me is why are [Apple] not doing anything half as cool as what Musk has done in the past 10 years. I don't understand: what hasn't Apple done that isn't "half as cool"? Clearly, the iPad alone is a significant product that has literally changed the computing industry.
- obviouslygreen 13y ago
  "Cool," perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes, it's just a big iPhone (or, really, an iPod Touch). It hasn't "changed the computing industry." It's introduced a new line of the same products we had before. "Let's make a bigger one" was a really great idea, but it's not really in the same league.
  - cbr 13y ago
    The Model S is "Cool", perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes, it's just a new kind of car that doesn't use gas (really, a big golf cart). It won't "change the automotive industry." It's introducing a new line of the same products we had before. With the Model S you still have roads, parking, large upfront costs, a driver, and traffic. The only difference is fuel. Minor. (I'm all for the Model S, but I think you're putting much too high a standard on "innovative".)
    - dublinben 13y ago
      That's not true. Tesla is significantly disrupting the archaic dealership model. They sell their cars directly, over the internet, and from corporate-owned showrooms.
      - 13y ago

GFischer 13y ago

Clayton Christensen at its finest :) http://www.claytonchristensen.com/books/the-innovators-dilemma/ http://www.claytonchristensen.com/books/the-innovators-dilem...

state 13y ago
My thought exactly.
dkrich 13y ago
I don't think this really speaks to his point though. It's not as if the Tesla is less expensive or disruptive in any way. It's a superior product in almost every way. I don't think the innovator's dilemma applies here. I think the OP glosses over a lot of very complicated engineering and the fact the founder also happened to found a God damned space company.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  So ... you're saying that Musk has disrupted disruption by turning the model on its head? He took long-established product. And sold a _less_ capable, _more_ expensive version (the Roadster). And used that to sell a _slightly_ more expensive, but _more_ capable product (Model S). Aiming eventually for a comparably priced product with far better capabilities, but at mass-market marque. That's actually somewhat like the Apple model, so it's not completely novel. But we're not used to thinking of cars as high-tech products (or at least haven't been for a century or so).

stcredzero 13y ago

> In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills. In other words, the firm already is sitting on top of a machine that prints money. Of course the first instinct shouts, "Don't rock the boat!"