16 ms·
“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”
- codeulike 13y agoMore bad news for the people shorting tesla, then. edit: Up 27% on Nasdaq at 12:47 ET
- parfe 13y agoPeople seem to really want the electric car to fail to the point of irrational investing. You don't short McDonald's because you dislike the Big Mac.
- deelowe 13y agoInvestors don't work that way. They only care about making money(I know I don't care if tesla succeeds or not, but I'm certainly bearish on it). People are shorting it because it's an impractical car from an ROI perspective. Albeit a very sexy and cool one. Like others have said, you can get a BMW with more features and all the gas you want for less than a tesla(minus the wizbang PC interface) It's yet to be seen if a tesla for the masses will catch on. Maybe it will, but a lot of investors still think this is a fad due to the impracticality. Remember, sometimes the market does funny things and it takes a long time for fads to die(nintento wii). That doesn't mean that the investors were wrong. It just means the public reacted in irrational ways, which happens with fads.
- bdamm 13y agoThe gasoline powered car was impractical once, before there were gasoline stations everywhere. That didn't stop the automobile revolution. Electricity is everywhere. It just has to get into the car. This is not a hard problem to solve if people are willing to pay to get it. And the cost of electricity substantially favors this business model.
- codeulike 13y agoRight, so investors have perfect judgement based on rational economic evaulations and if anything funny happens its because of fads and the public being irrational cough cough 2008 CDOs cough
- deelowe 13y agoIn all cases? no. I thought we were talking about Tesla's and EVs here. The business case doesn't make sense for these when you consider the numbers. It's more expensive and it's less convenient. Tesla is succeeding right now, because a few early adopters who can afford to plop down 60k on a car simply due to it's wizbang features want it to do well. The concern is what will happen when Tesla trys to market this anywhere outside the valley and new york. I'm bearish on this working in places like OK, GA, or TX. Most of us drive a lot more than our counterparts in CA. That said, I hear Tesla is planning a truck geared towards contract work. Now, that could be a game changer.
- aviswanathan 13y agoI can attest to this. Initially, I was extremely skeptical that the Tesla was anything great (electric cars haven't been the highlight of the automotive industry despite repeated attempts by established manufacturers). A few weeks ago, however, I had the chance to drive a family friend's Tesla and I was stunned. The Model S seems like a car from the future. Forget the fact that it's completely electric and charges via an alien-like, glowing plug. The interior with the large, beautiful touch screen, a voice-activated system (that, contrary to Siri, actually works) coupled with access to the internet, and the gorgeous trim and accents really make the Tesla a standout. Moreover, it's every geek's dream. You can remotely control the car with a smartphone app, monitor the car's efficiency and performance via beautiful graphs, and even have presets for charging cycles. Best of all, the pickup is like none other (as one would imagine). Flooring it in a Tesla has a completely different meaning. Pure acceleration and no roaring engine noise. I think it goes without saying that I'm very excited about this company.
- technoslut 13y agoAfter test driving a Tesla, I agree with much of what you said and one is the engine noise. I prefer sports cars and especially the sound of a V8/12. To me it's better than listening to music. I do understand that those purchasing a luxury vehicle have different expectations. Those in sedans appreciate cabin silence more than others.
- acchow 13y ago> To me it's better than listening to music. I humbly submit that you haven't listened to the right music.
- beachstartup 13y agoI humbly submit that you haven't been driving the right cars.
- lanstein 13y ago
- Shivetya 13y agoNo offense, at these price points the car better damn well be perfect. When they deliver a car at an every man's price point and score very high then I will be impressed. A year to two down the road and maintain that level of performance I will be impressed. Until then, cars are these price points have large enough margins that extra time and detail can be baked into the process. Kudos for beating the other luxury guys.
- jonknee 13y agoBy your logic every high-end car should have a near perfect rating...
- matthewaustin 13y agoTesla is hard at work taking the knowledge they've gained developing the Model S and applying it to create a ~$30k car, which will be meant for the every man. Until then, though, I think they deserve some recognition for beating out every car Consumer Reports has tested in their very first attempt at a sedan.
- rayiner 13y agoThe Model S is a full-size high performance luxury sedan, and very price-competitive at ~$100k decked out. It's competitors aren't the Honda accords of the world, but these: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1301_2013_bmw_m5_vs_porsche_panamera_gts/viewall.html http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1301_2013_bmw_m5_.... The BMW M5 is comparably priced at just over $100k "as tested" and the Porsche Panamera GTS is around $150k. None of these are "perfect" cars. The Model S goes toe-to-toe with those cars that get 14-20 miles per gallon. It's quarter mile time is right between the M5 and the Panamera. Maybe it's stupid, but measures of how quickly you can haul 4,500+ pounds of luxury car from 0-60 are the coin of the realm in this segment, and the Model S is enormously impressive in this regard. It's a brilliant play by Tesla, actually, competing with high-margin cars that can justify high-budget R&D before working down the line.
- spodek 13y agoI have learned cynicism and skepticism about a lot of media, but Consumer Reports remains one of the few sources -- the only one I can think of offhand -- that I trust without a second thought. I like their business plan and focus on doing what they do well. Their reviews mean something (even to someone like me who lives in Manhattan and doesn't drive).
- bifftannen 13y agoYou really shouldn't trust them, especially on cars. They gave different reliability ratings to brand engineered cars built in the same plant with the same parts.
- nfriedly 13y agoCan you give any details here?
- mhb 13y agoYes, they do reviews well. But a lot of their consumer advocacy would profit from better (or any?) cost/benefit analysis.
- slantyyz 13y agoI generally agree, as there is a difference between a great car to drive at any price vs. a great car for the normal person. Seems like a great car though - I'm sure it complicates things for its competitors in the same price class.
- mhb 13y agoMy intention was to distinguish between their product reviews, which are very useful, and their consumer protection initiatives. Many of these will cost a lot and may not justify the benefits. I don't think I've ever seen them make an argument which includes the cost of a government mandate that they favor.
- Retric 13y ago
- bane 13y agoThere's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? edit to be clear I'm not just talking about electric cars, but cars in general. There's a few Model S's in my area, and they're beautiful.
- heironimus 13y agoYou haven't worked for an enterprise software firm, have you? ;-)
- toomuchtodo 13y agoStep 1: Have a fortune Step 2: Take fortune, hire people to build your vision Step 3: Possibly profit.
- Grimm665 13y agoThere is a lot of money in prolonging the status quo.
- codex 13y agoMy theory: it all comes down to the maturation of the underlying technology. Tesla has been around for ten years. Why is their mainstream car only coming to market now, after all that time? Part of it is that creating a new car company takes a lot of time, but most of it is that the battery and other technologies have only recently matured enough to make EVs practical. Tesla has been waiting and waiting until this occurred and has a small jump on the other manufacturers. If this is true, I expect other manufacturers to ramp up pretty quickly. Both GM and Nissan both have electric cars that outsell the Model S (at least for now). Another aspect of the Model S worth mentioning is that EVs are heavily subsidized with a $7.5K federal tax credit a huge pile of cash from California--so Tesla has extra money to apply to the fit and finish of the car vis a vis non-electric luxury cars. In fact, as of last quarter all of Tesla's profits came from selling ZEV credits to other auto manufacturers, not from the actual car itself. Take out the $70M from selling ZEV credits and Tesla's gross margin is only 6%--much less than other luxury manufacturers. In fact they'd be running at a $50M quarterly loss without them. So it's easier to make a great car if you don't have to make as much money at it. If Tesla manages to get their gross margin to 25% without these incentives, however, it will be a different story, and a remarkable feat.
- ck2 13y agoSomeone probably paid them to say that ... oh wait! Going to be hard to argue with consumer reports though they have gone astray a few times. Now just make a model for half the price. In this decade.
- kgmpers 13y agoI don't know where to ask this, but does anyone know why they bothered with the front trunk? Was it just to keep the Model S looking like a typical car, so people would be less averse to considering it? Crumple zone for accidents? Seems like it would be unnecessary weight on a car where that would effect range.
- codeulike 13y agoLooks to me like they've gone out of their way to make it look similar-but-slightly-different to other cars. I'm sure they did their market research. People expect cars to look a certain way.
- dsuth 13y agoI'd expect aerodynamics come into play here as well. They wouldn't just chop the front of the car off, car design has evolved to make them more aerodynamic for a reason.
- slantyyz 13y agoIt's definitely a nice car, but it will interesting how much they will adjust the score (if at all) when they revisit it for their long-term use review.
- crikli 13y agoThis is my thought: this car has no history, period. I'm unclear as to how Consumer Reports can reliably put out a report on a vehicle that's so new to market with such (relatively) few examples on the road. I think people really really really want the Tesla to be for real. And I hope it is. But that judgement can't be made until a few years down the road.
- revelation 13y agoThey have built ten thousand of them, what are you talking about?
- crikli 13y agoTen thousand vehicles is a very small run. It's a lot for a small company but _relative_ (that being the keyword) to most production runs it's tiny. It's very similar to what Toyota did with the Prius in the US, but minus the three years of overseas sales where they had the opportunity to work out the kinks of the first generation Prius. The other thing is that the Model S isn't going to get miled up like a normal car: it doesn't have the range. So a guy like me who never ever buys new cars looks at the S a bit askance: it's cool as hell, I want one, but I'm not going to touch one with a 10 foot pole on the used market for a few years. FWIW I've been buying options on Tesla, I really want them to succeed and think that they will. I'm betting on it. :)
- revelation 13y agoIt's more than any other electric vehicle and they are actually leading sales in their segment of cars. The market for a 70k+ vehicle might not be as big as you think. The miles a car racks up is most certainly not a function of its range, but of the people driving it. Research suggests that if you have a more efficient car (higher MPG), you will drive more.
- newbie12 13y agoConsumer Reports is part of Ralph Nader's Consumer Union, an extremely left-wing operation. It is inconceivable that a $89k car with a top range of just 200 miles gets their top rating without a bias.
- michaelhoffman 13y agoConsumers Union was founded in 1936, when Ralph Nader was not yet two years old. Ralph Nader was on the board for a while but resigned in 1975 because it focused on product testing rather than advocacy. http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A07E6DC1F3CE034BC4B51DFBE66838E669EDE http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A07E6DC1F3C...
- abc_lisper 13y agoAwesome research!
- vorvzakone 13y agoTesla is the team that the nerds cheer for.
- startupstella 13y agoI just drove a Tesla Model S last weekend. Here are my perceptions, as I was SUPER curious about the car before I drove it: Pros: 1) The drive is AMAZING. The car is quiet, it accelerates amazingly, and the regenerative braking is really cool. 2) It feels like the future. The huge computer screen is cool (but distracting, you can go on the internet at anytime). 3) The ability to get software updates all the time is cool when thinking about cars. Cons: 1) It is impractical for an urban dweller in a condo building: you have to pay for an electrician to come install a special outlet, then pay for the electricity (which is fine if you own a house, getting this through a condo association is a nightmare). 2) The whole time you are thinking about the battery charge. What if you forget to plug in your car at night? 3) For the cost, it lacks feature a luxury car should have: park assist is one feature. The model i drove was around 90k and the more "luxury" features felt like a standard sedan (the leather, the wood, etc). You are definitely paying for the tech. 4) What if someone hits you? How much compared to other cars does it cost to get repaired? The salesperson couldn't answer this. 5) The car is connected to 3G for maps (unless you upgrade) and at some point, you will be paying for this service. 6) You have to plan out where you power up for a trip longer than 200 miles...so annoying. If you have the capacity or need for a fun, toy car at this price point...check out the Model S. I don't find it practical as a main car in the city.
- showerst 13y agoGood points, especially the condo thing! The range thing confuses me: How often do you drive more than 200 miles in the city? I live in DC which has lots of far-flung suburbs, and can still take a day-trip to Baltimore (an hour away) and back for around 100mi total. I see this as a really attractive second car for wealthy commuters. If my spouse had a normal gasoline car we could use for long trips and hauling things, this would be a great daily driver, especially if I lived in suburbia and commuted for 30min a day where having a nice car would make a big difference in my life.
- lh7777 13y agoPretty much exactly what I was thinking. The points about charging apply to any electric vehicle, though, and that's where I have trouble seeing electric cars really taking off. The Tesla approach seems great if your only use case is up to 100 mile drives from home to somewhere else and back again the same day to a home where you can easily plug the car in (essentially the typical car commuter). That's got to be a reasonable market now, but I remember seeing a recent article about a strong trend (in younger generations) towards living close to work and not driving or at least driving much less. I definitely fall into that category, and while I do have a car, I only use it on weekends to take trips out of town -- generally to places out in the woods where there will never be charging stations and often far enough that I wouldn't trust a 200 mile range. Unless battery technology gets way better, I just don't see electric-only working for that kind of use case. The Volt makes a lot more sense to me since you always have a backup plan. Regarding charging stations for urban dwellers, my building (like many new projects in the Seattle area, as I understand it) has a few parking spots that are with charging stations. I don't see them in use now, but if electric cars actually do take off, people are going to be fighting over those few spots.
- gdonelli 13y agoGreat news for anyone supporting innovation and green energy
- maeon3 13y agoWhy are there not more Elon Musk's in America and how can we create more of them? Answer here: http://home.bresnan.net/~cabreras/theboy.htm http://home.bresnan.net/~cabreras/theboy.htm
- bdamm 13y agoBingo, my friend.
- pigou 13y agoOne thing I've always wondered: How does Consumer Reports afford to purchase all those cars (and other expensive items that it reviews)?
- caw 13y agoDonations, subscriptions, and endowments. There's frequently an ad in Consumer Reports that you can get an annuity through them, so I'm sure some people take them up on that offer. I'm also assuming they sell the cars after they buy them and test them.
- CyberDroiD 13y agoI always thought cars close to or over 100K were considered Exotics, but then I recalled that most big SUVs are around that price point.
- dopamean 13y agoMost big SUVs are not around that price point. 100k is the price point for high end luxury cars. BMW 7, Mercedes S, Porsche 911, Jaguar XJ are all around that price.
- i2oc 13y agoAs a Model S owner I can attest to the awesomeness of the car. Will hit 20,000km in the next few weeks. Moreover I'm hoping that Tesla will challenge others in the industry to rethink their business model from the ground up. In 2013 why are we still replacing mufflers, why are using timing belts and not timing chains, and why is it that every time I walk into the dealership for a regular service I end up walking out with an even bigger bill than I expected? I get there is always wear and tear on a mechanical component but how many components are there in a typical car that are designed to fail to support an after market industry? I want a car built right and will pay more for that to avoid getting hooked into an industry that has become addicted to model year turnover revenue.
- Spooky23 13y agoI think the Tesla is amazing, but Consumer Reports is bizarre. I've never been able to grok Consumer Reports car reviews... I remember one year (2003-2004 i think) where they punished Hyundai for some minor cosmetic issue, but white-washed an issue where plastic body panels were falling off a Honda, and gave that car their highest rating. You could literally buy a similar BMW or Audi and all of the gas that you would ever consume for a price much less than that of the Tesla. And without the limitations of an electric car. Is the driving experience that much better than the other high end luxury cars?
- voodoomagicman 13y agoThe most similar BMW and Audi are the 7 series and A8, they are priced pretty comparably to the Tesla before any fuel savings.
- rtucea 13y agoIt has three very serious problems: 1. High price 2. Low range 3. Inability to instantly recharge (3) would be fixable by mechanically unloading the battery and loading a new charged one; not sure about the rest.