7 ms·

Microsoft prepares U-turn on Windows 8

65 points by mbesto 14y ago

spo81rty 14y ago
Can't read without registering.
- lucian1900 14y ago
  I can, I'm not sure why.
- Gabler 14y ago
  Are you sure you aren't confusing the pop up about their cookie policy with a login request?
- qqqqqq 14y ago
  FT has this incredibly aggravating policy of forcing registration on mobile devices. If you're on a mobile device, request the desktop version of the site, and you should be able to view the content.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
melling 14y ago
IE10 is already close to passing IE8 in market share. http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-daily-20130407-20130506 http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-daily-20130407... It would be really nice if Windows users decided that Win 8.1 was the version for them. Those XP machines have to be pretty old by now. IE10 could easily hit 25% next year.
- jaredmcateer 14y ago
  Windows 7, which for my uses, is a better OS than Win8, has IE10 as a recommended update. So for most installations of Windows 7 boxes they will automatically update to IE10.
- Thieum22 14y ago
  Win 8.1 is supposed to ship with IE 11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer#Internet_Explorer_11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer#Internet_Expl...
dreen 14y ago
Can someone explain to me why is Ballmer still in charge, really? Please?
- qompiler 14y ago
  Because MSFT still makes enough profit every quarter.
  - igravious 14y ago
    With those two (Windows and Office natch) cash cows a sufficiently tech-savvy bonobo could CEO Microsoft and turn a profit each and every quarter. Heck, even I could. The momentum that behemoth has must be unnatural. I don't think that this (quarterly profit or whatever) should be the metric by which Ballmer is judged. He should be judged on percentage of penetration into various market segments or something like that. So: consoles, yay; mobile, boo; desktop, yay (you can't beat a good monopoly); server, not so much; media forays, boo; net search, ho-hum; and so forth ...
    - girvo 14y ago
      > sufficiently tech-savvy bonobo So... Ballmer, then?
    - OGinparadise 14y ago
      With those two (Windows and Office natch) cash cows a sufficiently tech-savvy bonobo could CEO Microsoft and turn a profit each and every quarter. Heck, even I could. Sure you could. Even Apple and Jobs were lucky to beat you to the punch with the iPhone. Because Microsoft designed Windows and Office once, they have no competitors and are still selling the original product. No upgrade cycles, licensing decisions, dealing with the DOJ, EU etc, no competitors like Oracle, SAP, IBM, Google, Apple and you name it. It's really easy. Only a moron ignores Microsoft. They pay ~3+% a year in dividend, invest billions in R&D + new companies and still have some $60 Billion in cash. They are really struggling, as you can see http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MSFT+Key+Statistics http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MSFT+Key+Statistics. The stock for large caps goes back and forth, and the stock price upside is more or less limited by the their huge market cap.
qompiler 14y ago
I suspect this is just marketing for the upcoming Windows 8.1 (Blue). Which is more of a L-turn than a U-turn.
colkassad 14y ago
One problem I have had with my various PCs over the years is the file and shortcut clutter that accumulates on my desktop, a fault purely my own. Windows took this annoying habit of mine and made it a core feature of Windows 8.
bornhuetter 14y ago
What a ridiculously over the top hack article. In Windows 8, Microsoft did a lot right, and a couple of things wrong. In 8.1 they are trying to fix those couple of things. If they put the start button back and default to the desktop, that would address 90% of people's concerns. The only other major issue is that Metro apps are so far pretty useless, but they are very easy to avoid until they get better (or just ignore them permanently). As to it being "widely panned", I saw a lot of positive reviews of it when it came out. Even the Verge, who usually hate anything and everything Microsoft gave it a good review.
- PommeDeTerre 14y ago
  The absolute number of things done "right" or "wrong" doesn't matter so much. Many small "right things" will not balance out even a single, massive "wrong thing". Keep in mind that the single "wrong thing" can in turn spawn new problems of its own, like a tarnished reputation and uncertainty among consumers. It should be quite clear now, although it was pretty clear during the preview releases, that the UI changes were overwhelmingly bad. Even if such problems are fixed with a subsequent update, there are enough people who still just won't trust it, based on the poor initial experiences.
  - bornhuetter 14y ago
    But there aren't any massive "wrong things". Missing start button and not booting to the desktop are by far the two biggest complaints I hear about Windows 8. These are, in the scheme of things, not exactly massive issues. There are numerous programs out there that fix this issue, and Microsoft can fix them with a minor tweak. Metro apps have a load of problems, but since they are completely avoidable (and I think most people are just completely avoiding them) it's not a major issue. It's like widgets in Vista. That workspace all the way to the left on OS X with widgets, whatever it's called. I've literally never seen anyone use that feature, but I wouldn't consider it a major problem that it's there.
    - jeltz 14y ago
      For the power user those might be minor issues, but not for the average user. The start menu and the initial boot screen are about the most important things to get right to be user friendly to the mass market.
bdg 14y ago
Malware detected on website. Can someone post the content?
corporalagumbo 14y ago
U-turn? I don't think so. A company like Microsoft doesn't change its logo and completely redevelop its entire web presence so that for the first time ever its entire product line-up is consistent unless it has really, really carefully thought through its plans, and is pretty damn committed to them. And, even if Windows 8 wasn't a rave success, it would be incredibly weak (not to mention idiotic) to cave to pressure from short-sighted consumers and pundits and return to the old desktop. Besides, I doubt anyone at Microsoft is that upset about Windows 8's reception - it was a truly foundational release, with so much work done in so many areas, and so obviously a work in progress, that even modest success was probably a good result. Windows 8 was just the start of a massive transition process for Microsoft. Inevitably there were a lot of rough areas, room to improve, etc. Microsoft will have gained a huge amount of feedback, done a huge amount of work thinking about how to build on 8. I expect to continually up the polish, improve the features, smooth the split between both the new UI and the desktop, as well as improve the transition between different form factors, handle integration for users with multiple devices and so on better - but I don't see any significant reversal of direction. The old desktop is simply too antiquated and if Microsoft were to remain fused to it for any longer it would put them in an extremely dangerous position, given the quantum leaps in UI happening at the moment. The big question mark is how Microsoft is going to handle legacy app support while unifying the overall experience and setting sensible guidelines for what new apps (both Metro and Desktop) should look like. There is a lot of inertia in the Windows ecosystem and it will take a while to shift, but the results will definitely be worth it I think.
- ebbv 14y ago
  Pass me whatever you're smoking, bud. > I doubt anyone at Microsoft is that upset about Windows 8's reception You are wrong. I mean, I'm sure there are people at Microsoft who don't care. Windows 8 is a failure so far. They need to salvage it. This teenage attitude of it being "weak" to fix it and "cave" to consumer demands doesn't cut it when you're talking about a multi-billion dollar product completely failing in a publicly traded company. Microsoft has a legal obligation to its investors to fix this problem. > but I don't see any significant reversal of direction Again, you're wrong. They're releasing a patch to add in boot to desktop and reintroduce the start button. The only thing they aren't undoing yet is giving a traditional start menu instead of the start screen. Consumers have spoken clearly; they don't like or want Windows 8. It doesn't matter if it's better in your opinion. It's a product for the masses. It's a product for Mom & Dad, they need to be able to use it. And that means that abandoning all the established visual dialogue is a stupid mistake. The lack of sales has shown that, and it's why Microsoft is reversing direction and releasing this patch. There's a reason this news is being covered in the Financial Times; because investors see lack of Windows 8 sales and they get very unhappy.
Nursie 14y ago
Err ... Good? I've not used it extensively but found it confusing. My Father (non-techy) absolutely hates it. He hated Vista too but likes his Win 7 box. Very dangerous for MS to screw around with this as inertia and familiarity are a huge force in keeping them dominant. In their position the worst thing they could do is force big changes, which is what they've done.
- girvo 14y ago
  As another random anecdote: my technically not-inclined girlfriend loves it. Finds it super easy to use: use the desktop mode for her architecture apps, and metro for all her personal stuff. I even like it, although I did just wipe it on my new laptop for Ubuntu 13.04 - it's quite nice to use in my humble opinion.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    Interesting. Obviously anecdotes != data so assuming my experience is universal would be quite wrong. Have you or she customised the interface at all? I found the lack of start menu odd and hard to work with.
    - girvo 14y ago
      Nope, stock standard. The way to think about it, is that Metro IS the start-menu. So, hit the Super (windows) key, and start typing, just like you would to quick launch via Windows 7's start-menu. Pin your most used desktop apps to the bar in Desktop mode, and I promise with those two tips, you'll find it quite a bit easier to handle :) Now, hot corners on the other hand... those are a bit annoying. I will add that all this is on a laptop: having gestures enabled is a big plus. I also use a trackpad for my iMac and have one on my desktop at work, so I kinda can't live without them, and Windows 8's are pretty decent. Not OS X level yet, but getting there.
      - Nursie 14y ago
        So how about app discovery? I found myself having to poke around in the program files directory in explorer (very sub-optimal) in order to find out what was actually installed on the machine.
singold 14y ago
I've bought a new laptop last week that came with win8 preinstalled. I feel like I've boutght a very expensive tablet with a big screen and a keyboard... :P Really it doesnt feel like a PC, and the desktop is like an app that you use WTF?!
washadjefmad 14y ago
Paywalled on mobile. Was it really news?
- scholia 14y ago
  No, it contains no news that isn't readily available on other sites, but it has a linkbait title targeted at the clueless.
- dreen 14y ago
  not really no, its all just like, someone's opinions, man.
kijin 14y ago
I would consider upgrading to Windows 8.1 if they just made Metro the default desktop background while also keeping the Start button and the taskbar. That would be an interesting combination, since the desktop background is usually wasted space anyway. Sort of like the "active desktop" thing that they tried in Windows 98, but much more elegant. It would also eliminate the nonsense of having to leave the desktop in order to pin programs to the taskbar.
- mmariani 14y ago
  Completely agree. I don't get this stubborn dichotomy between start menu and tiles when we can easily have both. On a side note, I've installed a Windows 8 beta on my Mac about two years ago and I liked using it. On the other hand I always found the start menu to be a clunky solution.
brudgers 14y ago
Microsoft will add features to the UI and give users more time to learn Metro. The comparison to New Coke is a good one, the analysis weak. New Coke gave CocaCola the cover for switching from sugar to high-fructose corn syrup across the product line in the US. "Classic" was a new product. Metro is the right direction. It will just take time for businesses to catch up. And now the narrative will be about Microsoft's improvements.
antonyme 14y ago
Whoa - I get a malware warning when trying to visit this site with Safari 6. It seems um.equads.com (presumably linked to from ft.com) is infected!
wluu 14y ago
Not really a u-turn. More like re-fining. It's like the Windows Vista to 7. Little tweaks here and there. Win 8 has many changes. Some to the UI, some under the hood. Pretty impressed at the boot speed of Win 8 on a PC with an SSD. Took a few days to get used to the UI changes, utilising shortcut keys the same way I do on every other windows installs means I see very little of the metro/start screen unless I want to. My most used apps are all pinned to the start bar (eg: Chrome, Notepad++, etc). I think most average users probably have 4-5 most used apps, those apps should be pinned to the task bar. Doing that, it kinda acts a bit like the OS X dock and so they just need to click straight on those without searching through menus etc.
groundCode 14y ago
mumble grumble previously posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5666844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5666844
stinos 14y ago
Is it just me, or is this article and the news in it just way too vague to justify the title? What U-Turn? Pure guesswork yet they make it sound like nobody will be able to work with Windows anymore. For all we know MS is just going to add an option to set the desktop as default instead of the tiles now. Which would be a good thing, and listening to cutomers, but not quite a U-turn.
fumar 14y ago
My experience with Windows 8 has been through Surface RT. After using iOS, OSX, and Android for years, going to Windows 8 RT has been fun and easy to learn. Maybe, its because UI works on a tablet. I look forward to Microsoft creating a more refined experience around the Metro(modern) interface. Microsoft dropped the ball on forcing OEMS to create great touch centric devices and marketing. People purchased PCs expecting their traditional Windows experience and received something much different.
alan_cx 14y ago
I am utterly lost when it comes to Windows and people opinions. Edit: .... and what MS are up to. I start with the notion that, IMHO, XP SP3 was and remains a great OS. Its like the OS that Win 95 was building up to. I then replace my main go to desk top machine and it comes with Vista installed. Im worried because every geek and his dog hates it. I buy my new machine intending to wipe the HD and install XP instead. It wrong to hate with out trying, so I give Vista a go. 3 or so years later, Im still using Vista with zero problems. In my eyes its XP with added stuff and a bit of a fluffing. Fine. Now, kids get new machines and this time its Windows 7. IMHO, good thing it was the kids machines because IMHO Win 7 looks like a kids OS. I try to do some set up stuff and it takes me ages to get anything done. So, that's that for me. Don't want 7 any where near my computer(s). Although to be fair, the kids get on fine with it. Next up, last Christmas, more computers for the kids, laptops with Win 8. All I see its a tablet OS forced on non tablets. Get by the tablet interface and its mangled Win 7, worse to use and find my way around than 7 was. Two identical laptops, but both have different issues. Wireless being the most frustrating. Right now Im wondering a) why people hate Vista, and b)what my next OS should be. I want XP, I'm happy enough with Vista, but the idea of Win 7 or 8 fills me with dread. And if any one says Linux or Mac, I'll die laughing. Neither even begin to be suitable. (Mac devices are brilliant for the kids, but never me) I am NOT a serial MS hater, I have always been happy enough with their products as long as I never have to use the first release, and wait for the first service pack and decent drivers. Not great, but the system works. But now I feel un-catered for. Win 7 and 8 are miles away from what I want and I can only see it getting worse. It feels like MS have annoyed all the usual suspect, but now they are going all out to annoy the people who still like them and their products. And lastly, why on earth force a tablet UI on to desk tops and lap tops? What one earth is that about? Why not a core OS, and you just buy a tablet or PC version? Like I say, the whole MS thing has me utterly lost. And that is really sad as, as it turns out, with out realising, I'm a loyal MS customer. But right now, Im sticking with Vista until I literally cant.
- parasubvert 14y ago
  Yours is the first opinion I've read of someone preferring Vista to Windows 7. Win7 is pretty much superior to both Vista and XPSP3 in almost every way, though especially from a usability and secuirty perspective. It's actually not all that different from Vista in my experience (and you can make it look like Vista pretty easily, if the color scheme bothers you). Windows 7 likely is the next XP - people will stick with it for 10+ years if they can. In fairness, I gave up and switched to a Mac.
crsna 14y ago
What if Mircorsoft had called Windows 8 as some Neo OS v1 (or beta)? What if they had said that this OS is: 1. Optimized for low power chips and is very power efficient 2. Cloud centric and integrates all the modern breed of sensors like accelerometer, GPS, proximity, ... 3. Supports touch and pen inputs as natively as Windows supports keyboard and mice. 4. Super fast 5. Runs your legacy Windows applications 6. Supports most of the devices like cameras, scanners, printers meant to work with Windows 7. Runs in several form factors 8. Gives a familiar .NET and HTML environments to develop applications I think, calling it Windows has set an expectation for start button and desktop as the landing screen and led to this widespread disappointment. Microsoft failed to get users to approach it with a desire to explore. By making their new OS the mainstream OS shipped with every PC sold (with or without necessary hardware support), they neither chose the initial seed users right nor gave the OS a good chance with right devices.
mark_l_watson 14y ago
I only have one Windows PC (dual boot Ubuntu / Windows 7 laptop). Still, I like what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8 and hybrid tablets and laptops. When my two Mac laptops are no longer supporting my work because of malfunction or obsolescense I will likely buy whatever the next version of surface pro is. One thing that I don't understand is why older desktop non-touchscreen PCs don't default to a Windows 7 style interface. I would like to have one small device (with a huge external monitor when I occasionally need it) for everything. Whether that is a small hybrid tablet/laptop or a powerful cellphone with great docking station support, I would like one universal device. I was very surprised to find a very functional Java/Android IDE for my Galaxy S III - no reason why a future more powerful smartphone with great wireless docking couldn't meet all of my computing requirements.

65 points by mbesto 14y ago

spo81rty 14y ago

Can't read without registering.

lucian1900 14y ago
I can, I'm not sure why.
Gabler 14y ago
Are you sure you aren't confusing the pop up about their cookie policy with a login request?
qqqqqq 14y ago
FT has this incredibly aggravating policy of forcing registration on mobile devices. If you're on a mobile device, request the desktop version of the site, and you should be able to view the content.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

melling 14y ago

IE10 is already close to passing IE8 in market share. http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-daily-20130407-20130506 http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-daily-20130407... It would be really nice if Windows users decided that Win 8.1 was the version for them. Those XP machines have to be pretty old by now. IE10 could easily hit 25% next year.

jaredmcateer 14y ago
Windows 7, which for my uses, is a better OS than Win8, has IE10 as a recommended update. So for most installations of Windows 7 boxes they will automatically update to IE10.
Thieum22 14y ago
Win 8.1 is supposed to ship with IE 11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer#Internet_Explorer_11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer#Internet_Expl...

dreen 14y ago

Can someone explain to me why is Ballmer still in charge, really? Please?

qompiler 14y ago
Because MSFT still makes enough profit every quarter.
- igravious 14y ago
  With those two (Windows and Office natch) cash cows a sufficiently tech-savvy bonobo could CEO Microsoft and turn a profit each and every quarter. Heck, even I could. The momentum that behemoth has must be unnatural. I don't think that this (quarterly profit or whatever) should be the metric by which Ballmer is judged. He should be judged on percentage of penetration into various market segments or something like that. So: consoles, yay; mobile, boo; desktop, yay (you can't beat a good monopoly); server, not so much; media forays, boo; net search, ho-hum; and so forth ...
  - girvo 14y ago
    > sufficiently tech-savvy bonobo So... Ballmer, then?
  - OGinparadise 14y ago
    With those two (Windows and Office natch) cash cows a sufficiently tech-savvy bonobo could CEO Microsoft and turn a profit each and every quarter. Heck, even I could. Sure you could. Even Apple and Jobs were lucky to beat you to the punch with the iPhone. Because Microsoft designed Windows and Office once, they have no competitors and are still selling the original product. No upgrade cycles, licensing decisions, dealing with the DOJ, EU etc, no competitors like Oracle, SAP, IBM, Google, Apple and you name it. It's really easy. Only a moron ignores Microsoft. They pay ~3+% a year in dividend, invest billions in R&D + new companies and still have some $60 Billion in cash. They are really struggling, as you can see http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MSFT+Key+Statistics http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MSFT+Key+Statistics. The stock for large caps goes back and forth, and the stock price upside is more or less limited by the their huge market cap.

qompiler 14y ago

I suspect this is just marketing for the upcoming Windows 8.1 (Blue). Which is more of a L-turn than a U-turn.

colkassad 14y ago

One problem I have had with my various PCs over the years is the file and shortcut clutter that accumulates on my desktop, a fault purely my own. Windows took this annoying habit of mine and made it a core feature of Windows 8.

bornhuetter 14y ago

What a ridiculously over the top hack article. In Windows 8, Microsoft did a lot right, and a couple of things wrong. In 8.1 they are trying to fix those couple of things. If they put the start button back and default to the desktop, that would address 90% of people's concerns. The only other major issue is that Metro apps are so far pretty useless, but they are very easy to avoid until they get better (or just ignore them permanently). As to it being "widely panned", I saw a lot of positive reviews of it when it came out. Even the Verge, who usually hate anything and everything Microsoft gave it a good review.

PommeDeTerre 14y ago
The absolute number of things done "right" or "wrong" doesn't matter so much. Many small "right things" will not balance out even a single, massive "wrong thing". Keep in mind that the single "wrong thing" can in turn spawn new problems of its own, like a tarnished reputation and uncertainty among consumers. It should be quite clear now, although it was pretty clear during the preview releases, that the UI changes were overwhelmingly bad. Even if such problems are fixed with a subsequent update, there are enough people who still just won't trust it, based on the poor initial experiences.
- bornhuetter 14y ago
  But there aren't any massive "wrong things". Missing start button and not booting to the desktop are by far the two biggest complaints I hear about Windows 8. These are, in the scheme of things, not exactly massive issues. There are numerous programs out there that fix this issue, and Microsoft can fix them with a minor tweak. Metro apps have a load of problems, but since they are completely avoidable (and I think most people are just completely avoiding them) it's not a major issue. It's like widgets in Vista. That workspace all the way to the left on OS X with widgets, whatever it's called. I've literally never seen anyone use that feature, but I wouldn't consider it a major problem that it's there.
  - jeltz 14y ago
    For the power user those might be minor issues, but not for the average user. The start menu and the initial boot screen are about the most important things to get right to be user friendly to the mass market.

bdg 14y ago

Malware detected on website. Can someone post the content?

corporalagumbo 14y ago

U-turn? I don't think so. A company like Microsoft doesn't change its logo and completely redevelop its entire web presence so that for the first time ever its entire product line-up is consistent unless it has really, really carefully thought through its plans, and is pretty damn committed to them. And, even if Windows 8 wasn't a rave success, it would be incredibly weak (not to mention idiotic) to cave to pressure from short-sighted consumers and pundits and return to the old desktop. Besides, I doubt anyone at Microsoft is that upset about Windows 8's reception - it was a truly foundational release, with so much work done in so many areas, and so obviously a work in progress, that even modest success was probably a good result. Windows 8 was just the start of a massive transition process for Microsoft. Inevitably there were a lot of rough areas, room to improve, etc. Microsoft will have gained a huge amount of feedback, done a huge amount of work thinking about how to build on 8. I expect to continually up the polish, improve the features, smooth the split between both the new UI and the desktop, as well as improve the transition between different form factors, handle integration for users with multiple devices and so on better - but I don't see any significant reversal of direction. The old desktop is simply too antiquated and if Microsoft were to remain fused to it for any longer it would put them in an extremely dangerous position, given the quantum leaps in UI happening at the moment. The big question mark is how Microsoft is going to handle legacy app support while unifying the overall experience and setting sensible guidelines for what new apps (both Metro and Desktop) should look like. There is a lot of inertia in the Windows ecosystem and it will take a while to shift, but the results will definitely be worth it I think.

ebbv 14y ago
Pass me whatever you're smoking, bud. > I doubt anyone at Microsoft is that upset about Windows 8's reception You are wrong. I mean, I'm sure there are people at Microsoft who don't care. Windows 8 is a failure so far. They need to salvage it. This teenage attitude of it being "weak" to fix it and "cave" to consumer demands doesn't cut it when you're talking about a multi-billion dollar product completely failing in a publicly traded company. Microsoft has a legal obligation to its investors to fix this problem. > but I don't see any significant reversal of direction Again, you're wrong. They're releasing a patch to add in boot to desktop and reintroduce the start button. The only thing they aren't undoing yet is giving a traditional start menu instead of the start screen. Consumers have spoken clearly; they don't like or want Windows 8. It doesn't matter if it's better in your opinion. It's a product for the masses. It's a product for Mom & Dad, they need to be able to use it. And that means that abandoning all the established visual dialogue is a stupid mistake. The lack of sales has shown that, and it's why Microsoft is reversing direction and releasing this patch. There's a reason this news is being covered in the Financial Times; because investors see lack of Windows 8 sales and they get very unhappy.

Nursie 14y ago

Err ... Good? I've not used it extensively but found it confusing. My Father (non-techy) absolutely hates it. He hated Vista too but likes his Win 7 box. Very dangerous for MS to screw around with this as inertia and familiarity are a huge force in keeping them dominant. In their position the worst thing they could do is force big changes, which is what they've done.

girvo 14y ago
As another random anecdote: my technically not-inclined girlfriend loves it. Finds it super easy to use: use the desktop mode for her architecture apps, and metro for all her personal stuff. I even like it, although I did just wipe it on my new laptop for Ubuntu 13.04 - it's quite nice to use in my humble opinion.
- Nursie 14y ago
  Interesting. Obviously anecdotes != data so assuming my experience is universal would be quite wrong. Have you or she customised the interface at all? I found the lack of start menu odd and hard to work with.
  - girvo 14y ago
    Nope, stock standard. The way to think about it, is that Metro IS the start-menu. So, hit the Super (windows) key, and start typing, just like you would to quick launch via Windows 7's start-menu. Pin your most used desktop apps to the bar in Desktop mode, and I promise with those two tips, you'll find it quite a bit easier to handle :) Now, hot corners on the other hand... those are a bit annoying. I will add that all this is on a laptop: having gestures enabled is a big plus. I also use a trackpad for my iMac and have one on my desktop at work, so I kinda can't live without them, and Windows 8's are pretty decent. Not OS X level yet, but getting there.
    - Nursie 14y ago
      So how about app discovery? I found myself having to poke around in the program files directory in explorer (very sub-optimal) in order to find out what was actually installed on the machine.

singold 14y ago

I've bought a new laptop last week that came with win8 preinstalled. I feel like I've boutght a very expensive tablet with a big screen and a keyboard... :P Really it doesnt feel like a PC, and the desktop is like an app that you use WTF?!

washadjefmad 14y ago

Paywalled on mobile. Was it really news?

scholia 14y ago
No, it contains no news that isn't readily available on other sites, but it has a linkbait title targeted at the clueless.
dreen 14y ago
not really no, its all just like, someone's opinions, man.

kijin 14y ago

I would consider upgrading to Windows 8.1 if they just made Metro the default desktop background while also keeping the Start button and the taskbar. That would be an interesting combination, since the desktop background is usually wasted space anyway. Sort of like the "active desktop" thing that they tried in Windows 98, but much more elegant. It would also eliminate the nonsense of having to leave the desktop in order to pin programs to the taskbar.

mmariani 14y ago
Completely agree. I don't get this stubborn dichotomy between start menu and tiles when we can easily have both. On a side note, I've installed a Windows 8 beta on my Mac about two years ago and I liked using it. On the other hand I always found the start menu to be a clunky solution.

brudgers 14y ago

Microsoft will add features to the UI and give users more time to learn Metro. The comparison to New Coke is a good one, the analysis weak. New Coke gave CocaCola the cover for switching from sugar to high-fructose corn syrup across the product line in the US. "Classic" was a new product. Metro is the right direction. It will just take time for businesses to catch up. And now the narrative will be about Microsoft's improvements.

antonyme 14y ago

Whoa - I get a malware warning when trying to visit this site with Safari 6. It seems um.equads.com (presumably linked to from ft.com) is infected!

wluu 14y ago

Not really a u-turn. More like re-fining. It's like the Windows Vista to 7. Little tweaks here and there. Win 8 has many changes. Some to the UI, some under the hood. Pretty impressed at the boot speed of Win 8 on a PC with an SSD. Took a few days to get used to the UI changes, utilising shortcut keys the same way I do on every other windows installs means I see very little of the metro/start screen unless I want to. My most used apps are all pinned to the start bar (eg: Chrome, Notepad++, etc). I think most average users probably have 4-5 most used apps, those apps should be pinned to the task bar. Doing that, it kinda acts a bit like the OS X dock and so they just need to click straight on those without searching through menus etc.

groundCode 14y ago

mumble grumble previously posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5666844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5666844

stinos 14y ago

Is it just me, or is this article and the news in it just way too vague to justify the title? What U-Turn? Pure guesswork yet they make it sound like nobody will be able to work with Windows anymore. For all we know MS is just going to add an option to set the desktop as default instead of the tiles now. Which would be a good thing, and listening to cutomers, but not quite a U-turn.

fumar 14y ago

My experience with Windows 8 has been through Surface RT. After using iOS, OSX, and Android for years, going to Windows 8 RT has been fun and easy to learn. Maybe, its because UI works on a tablet. I look forward to Microsoft creating a more refined experience around the Metro(modern) interface. Microsoft dropped the ball on forcing OEMS to create great touch centric devices and marketing. People purchased PCs expecting their traditional Windows experience and received something much different.

alan_cx 14y ago

I am utterly lost when it comes to Windows and people opinions. Edit: .... and what MS are up to. I start with the notion that, IMHO, XP SP3 was and remains a great OS. Its like the OS that Win 95 was building up to. I then replace my main go to desk top machine and it comes with Vista installed. Im worried because every geek and his dog hates it. I buy my new machine intending to wipe the HD and install XP instead. It wrong to hate with out trying, so I give Vista a go. 3 or so years later, Im still using Vista with zero problems. In my eyes its XP with added stuff and a bit of a fluffing. Fine. Now, kids get new machines and this time its Windows 7. IMHO, good thing it was the kids machines because IMHO Win 7 looks like a kids OS. I try to do some set up stuff and it takes me ages to get anything done. So, that's that for me. Don't want 7 any where near my computer(s). Although to be fair, the kids get on fine with it. Next up, last Christmas, more computers for the kids, laptops with Win 8. All I see its a tablet OS forced on non tablets. Get by the tablet interface and its mangled Win 7, worse to use and find my way around than 7 was. Two identical laptops, but both have different issues. Wireless being the most frustrating. Right now Im wondering a) why people hate Vista, and b)what my next OS should be. I want XP, I'm happy enough with Vista, but the idea of Win 7 or 8 fills me with dread. And if any one says Linux or Mac, I'll die laughing. Neither even begin to be suitable. (Mac devices are brilliant for the kids, but never me) I am NOT a serial MS hater, I have always been happy enough with their products as long as I never have to use the first release, and wait for the first service pack and decent drivers. Not great, but the system works. But now I feel un-catered for. Win 7 and 8 are miles away from what I want and I can only see it getting worse. It feels like MS have annoyed all the usual suspect, but now they are going all out to annoy the people who still like them and their products. And lastly, why on earth force a tablet UI on to desk tops and lap tops? What one earth is that about? Why not a core OS, and you just buy a tablet or PC version? Like I say, the whole MS thing has me utterly lost. And that is really sad as, as it turns out, with out realising, I'm a loyal MS customer. But right now, Im sticking with Vista until I literally cant.

parasubvert 14y ago
Yours is the first opinion I've read of someone preferring Vista to Windows 7. Win7 is pretty much superior to both Vista and XPSP3 in almost every way, though especially from a usability and secuirty perspective. It's actually not all that different from Vista in my experience (and you can make it look like Vista pretty easily, if the color scheme bothers you). Windows 7 likely is the next XP - people will stick with it for 10+ years if they can. In fairness, I gave up and switched to a Mac.

crsna 14y ago

What if Mircorsoft had called Windows 8 as some Neo OS v1 (or beta)? What if they had said that this OS is: 1. Optimized for low power chips and is very power efficient 2. Cloud centric and integrates all the modern breed of sensors like accelerometer, GPS, proximity, ... 3. Supports touch and pen inputs as natively as Windows supports keyboard and mice. 4. Super fast 5. Runs your legacy Windows applications 6. Supports most of the devices like cameras, scanners, printers meant to work with Windows 7. Runs in several form factors 8. Gives a familiar .NET and HTML environments to develop applications I think, calling it Windows has set an expectation for start button and desktop as the landing screen and led to this widespread disappointment. Microsoft failed to get users to approach it with a desire to explore. By making their new OS the mainstream OS shipped with every PC sold (with or without necessary hardware support), they neither chose the initial seed users right nor gave the OS a good chance with right devices.

mark_l_watson 14y ago

I only have one Windows PC (dual boot Ubuntu / Windows 7 laptop). Still, I like what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8 and hybrid tablets and laptops. When my two Mac laptops are no longer supporting my work because of malfunction or obsolescense I will likely buy whatever the next version of surface pro is. One thing that I don't understand is why older desktop non-touchscreen PCs don't default to a Windows 7 style interface. I would like to have one small device (with a huge external monitor when I occasionally need it) for everything. Whether that is a small hybrid tablet/laptop or a powerful cellphone with great docking station support, I would like one universal device. I was very surprised to find a very functional Java/Android IDE for my Galaxy S III - no reason why a future more powerful smartphone with great wireless docking couldn't meet all of my computing requirements.