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But they aren't necessarily depriving the copyright owners. In fact, in some cases they may be helping them.

ErrantX 18y ago
But they are not necessarily helping either. :) Personally the biggest issue I have with TPB is: - They have an anti-establishment attitude NOT a pro-file sharing one. So I dont ever count them as part of the (legit) file sharing community - They have an attitude problem.. there is no reason sharers cant work with copyright holders. But said holders have no reason to trust sharers when people like TPB tend to be the public face (through creating a media circus).
- nopassrecover 18y ago
  Fair points :-) My problem was that the original parent comment (now deleted) made the claim that TPB was profiting off other copyright holders and therefore deserved punishment. My retort was that they weren't necessarily hurting copyright holders and may even have helped with promotion.
- sho 18y ago
  What's wrong with their attitude? They have a set of beliefs and they loudly espouse them. Their arguments are well-reasoned and, usually, politely stated. The only "establishment" they are against is the status quo of copyright law, it's not like they're anarchists. They might slip into immaturity sometimes (see their "responses to legal threats page", for example) but it's not like the other side are angels either.
  - ErrantX 18y ago
    > Their arguments are well-reasoned and, usually, politely stated Really? Mostly they just fall back on the usual anti-capitalist rethoric. Nothing particularly wrong with that but they certainly dont do it politely from what I have seen :) In terms of the other side: true both have their faults. But why does that mean we should side with the pirates :) they have done something wrong.
    - nopassrecover 18y ago
      But not something illegal under Swedish law. Well not until this verdict.
      - ErrantX 18y ago
        that is not, as far as I know, how Swedish law works. State litigation is built on test cases I think. So there not being a specific law is not en-passe for it being legal.
  - jimbokun 18y ago
    jgrahamc cites one of their well-reasoned, politely stated arguments here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=566824 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=566824 "It is the opinion of us and our lawyers that you are ....... morons, and that you should please go sodomize yourself with retractable batons. Go fuck yourself." I suppose this is one of the "responses to legal threats" you refer to.
    - sho 18y ago
      Yes it is. Original source: http://static.thepiratebay.org/dreamworks_response.txt http://static.thepiratebay.org/dreamworks_response.txt If you read the whole thing, you'll note that the reason for that tone was that they were annoyed that DreamWorks had tried to send a DMCA takedown notice to a site obviously, and famously, far outside the USA. As a dirty foreigner myself I can completely understand the annoyance with Americans who blithely assume that US law applies to the rest of the world, so maybe that wasn't the best example to raise. And as an American, I'm sure that if some Swedish company sent you a Swedish "takedown" notice under Swedish law and written in Swedish, you'd probably tell them to go fuck themselves, too.
      - ErrantX 18y ago
        probably just as the US companies are annoyed how TPB blithely assumes that being in a different country excludes them from copyright law... The argument have 2 (probably even) sides with the majority of us stuck in the middle. Only one is refusing to budge and are acting like "dicks". So....

But they are not necessarily helping either. :) Personally the biggest issue I have with TPB is: - They have an anti-establishment attitude NOT a pro-file sharing one. So I dont ever count them as part of the (legit) file sharing community - They have an attitude problem.. there is no reason sharers cant work with copyright holders. But said holders have no reason to trust sharers when people like TPB tend to be the public face (through creating a media circus).

nopassrecover 18y ago
Fair points :-) My problem was that the original parent comment (now deleted) made the claim that TPB was profiting off other copyright holders and therefore deserved punishment. My retort was that they weren't necessarily hurting copyright holders and may even have helped with promotion.
sho 18y ago
What's wrong with their attitude? They have a set of beliefs and they loudly espouse them. Their arguments are well-reasoned and, usually, politely stated. The only "establishment" they are against is the status quo of copyright law, it's not like they're anarchists. They might slip into immaturity sometimes (see their "responses to legal threats page", for example) but it's not like the other side are angels either.
- ErrantX 18y ago
  > Their arguments are well-reasoned and, usually, politely stated Really? Mostly they just fall back on the usual anti-capitalist rethoric. Nothing particularly wrong with that but they certainly dont do it politely from what I have seen :) In terms of the other side: true both have their faults. But why does that mean we should side with the pirates :) they have done something wrong.
  - nopassrecover 18y ago
    But not something illegal under Swedish law. Well not until this verdict.
    - ErrantX 18y ago
      that is not, as far as I know, how Swedish law works. State litigation is built on test cases I think. So there not being a specific law is not en-passe for it being legal.
- jimbokun 18y ago
  jgrahamc cites one of their well-reasoned, politely stated arguments here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=566824 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=566824 "It is the opinion of us and our lawyers that you are ....... morons, and that you should please go sodomize yourself with retractable batons. Go fuck yourself." I suppose this is one of the "responses to legal threats" you refer to.
  - sho 18y ago
    Yes it is. Original source: http://static.thepiratebay.org/dreamworks_response.txt http://static.thepiratebay.org/dreamworks_response.txt If you read the whole thing, you'll note that the reason for that tone was that they were annoyed that DreamWorks had tried to send a DMCA takedown notice to a site obviously, and famously, far outside the USA. As a dirty foreigner myself I can completely understand the annoyance with Americans who blithely assume that US law applies to the rest of the world, so maybe that wasn't the best example to raise. And as an American, I'm sure that if some Swedish company sent you a Swedish "takedown" notice under Swedish law and written in Swedish, you'd probably tell them to go fuck themselves, too.
    - ErrantX 18y ago
      probably just as the US companies are annoyed how TPB blithely assumes that being in a different country excludes them from copyright law... The argument have 2 (probably even) sides with the majority of us stuck in the middle. Only one is refusing to budge and are acting like "dicks". So....