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I would sympathize with Valve if they didn't completely ignore Linux before acting like the Linux community's best friend when it became apparent that they had

by Skoofoo 13y ago

I would sympathize with Valve if they didn't completely ignore Linux before acting like the Linux community's best friend when it became apparent that they had nowhere else to turn to [1]. Like many, I'm a fan of their games and their flat management, but they have a history of being as short-sighted and callous as EA and I wish more people would see that [2]. I have a lot more respect for the people behind Humble Bundle/Wolfire, who went out of their way to support Linux long before it was cool [3]. Plus they don't force DRM middleware on you. [1] http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/ http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/ [2] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/11/valve-tricked-h/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/11/valve-tricked-h/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugaru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugaru

Afforess 13y ago
What? Humble BundLe totally sold out their integrity after they let THQ sell their games with the Humble Bundle brand, without linux versions and with DRM. [1] http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-humble-thq-bundle-loses-indie-games-adds-drm-and-is-a-step-backward-for http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-humble-thq-bu... [2] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/humble-thq-bundle-threatens-to-ruin-the-brands-reputation/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/humble-thq-bundle-thre...
- rexignis 13y ago
  I think you're being very hyperbolic. They were very explicit saying the games were Windows only and had DRM (Steam). It was its own isolated bundle.
- Qantourisc 13y ago
  Technically, and financially it was all good. However marketing wise not a good move. Your post proofs this. And I kinda agree.
- shmerl 13y ago
  Yes, that bundle was upsetting. I hope they don't continue this kind of stuff.
- lucian1900 13y ago
  It wasn't named an "indie" bundle and it was marked quite well. I don't think it's selling out.
- Skoofoo 13y ago
  I was disappointed about this, too; not because it's necessarily bad, but because they had set the bar so high for themselves and then totally missed it with this. On the bright side, it raised a lot of money for charity.
- scott_karana 13y ago
  Their integrity? THQ was about to tank, and they wanted to flip the games to whoever they could. I'm sure that if there were THQ-internal beta versions for Linux and Mac, they would have happily shipped them.
sillysaurus 13y ago
Valve has a history of being as short-sighted and callous as EA and I wish more people would see that [2]. Your citation [2] doesn't in any way support that viewpoint. Actually, there probably aren't any citations which support that viewpoint, because EA is about as far opposite from Valve as a gaming company can get. (Zynga is likely the polar opposite.)
- Skoofoo 13y ago
  If your account is stolen and becomes VAC banned, Valve won't do anything about it and you will be stuck with gimped games, regardless of how much business you gave them (back then they didn't have security codes). I can't find this on Google, but at least twice I've read that Valve just ignores emails from game developers they're not interested in. In Team Fortress 2, the staff is allowed to hop on players' servers and practically cheat by mowing down everyone with overpowered weapons, and they ruined the game's integrity through introducing a microtransaction economy that they take advantage of to promote other Steam games. Maybe Valve isn't as bad as EA, but it's hardly as good as its reputation.
  - kbenson 13y ago
    > I've read that Valve just ignores emails from game developers they're not interested in Details on that would be interesting. I have to say my first thought is that they probably get a lot of indie developers that want on the Network, and don't want to devote and entire position to explaining why not every publisher gets in Steam just because they want to. > In Team Fortress 2 ... they ruined the game's integrity through introducing a microtransaction economy So, they take their free to play game, and add the ability to customize your characters in ways that don't affect gameplay that make them money, and they have all of a sudden ruined the integrity of the game? Is it ruined because they want to make some money from it? I seem to remember that when they were just starting the hats, they were also putting out large updates for the player classes, for free. > take advantage of to promote other Steam games. You state that like it's bad for it's own sake. What's wrong with them promoting their other games?
    - 13y ago
mariuolo 13y ago
This is not about being anyone's friend: they're merely trying to keep their head above water. If this makes linux more popular as side-effect, so be it.
- Skoofoo 13y ago
  "After all, isn’t that what open source is all about – the idea that collaboration and teamwork achieve amazing things?" Written by Valve in the cited blog post, despite having nothing to do with open source.
hurfdurferson 13y ago
So, you are basically upset at Valve for changing course for the better? Compared to the other game publishers that will support Linux the day that the Devil skates to work? So hypocrisy is worse than being consistently evil all the time? Thanks, got it. /s
Havoc 13y ago
>I would sympathize with Valve if they didn't completely ignore Linux Can you blame them? I'm surprised they can make the numbers work even now, let alone 5 years ago. The probably still don't...its probably just a long range bet. >Plus they don't force DRM middleware on you. DRM is the future (not that I like it). The trick is simply to make it DRM like Steam where people barely realize its DRM and rather than EA's crap idea of DRM.
- csense 13y ago
  > DRM is the future Why? It seems entirely reasonable to me to have an equilibrium where there's some nonzero market niche of people who oppose DRM for practical and/or ideological reasons, and some nonzero number of developers that realize they can get access to that market by forgoing DRM on their products. Case in point: Just yesterday I saw Torchlight 2 was on sale on Gamersgate. I was totally ready to buy it on the spot. Then I saw that it was Steam-only. And I didn't buy it for that reason, and that reason alone. Those dollars from my entertainment budget are now ready to be captured by non-DRM products. If there are enough people like me, we can push back DRM, or at least keep it out of some corner of the market. If you don't like DRM, vote with your wallet.
mylons 13y ago
they're on board now, that's all that matters.
floor 13y ago
I wouldn't say they completely ignored Linux. They did have nix servers for all of their games back when 3d gaming on nix wasn't viable at all.

by Skoofoo 13y ago

Afforess 13y ago

What? Humble BundLe totally sold out their integrity after they let THQ sell their games with the Humble Bundle brand, without linux versions and with DRM. [1] http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-humble-thq-bundle-loses-indie-games-adds-drm-and-is-a-step-backward-for http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-humble-thq-bu... [2] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/humble-thq-bundle-threatens-to-ruin-the-brands-reputation/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/humble-thq-bundle-thre...

rexignis 13y ago
I think you're being very hyperbolic. They were very explicit saying the games were Windows only and had DRM (Steam). It was its own isolated bundle.
Qantourisc 13y ago
Technically, and financially it was all good. However marketing wise not a good move. Your post proofs this. And I kinda agree.
shmerl 13y ago
Yes, that bundle was upsetting. I hope they don't continue this kind of stuff.
lucian1900 13y ago
It wasn't named an "indie" bundle and it was marked quite well. I don't think it's selling out.
Skoofoo 13y ago
I was disappointed about this, too; not because it's necessarily bad, but because they had set the bar so high for themselves and then totally missed it with this. On the bright side, it raised a lot of money for charity.
scott_karana 13y ago
Their integrity? THQ was about to tank, and they wanted to flip the games to whoever they could. I'm sure that if there were THQ-internal beta versions for Linux and Mac, they would have happily shipped them.

sillysaurus 13y ago

Valve has a history of being as short-sighted and callous as EA and I wish more people would see that [2]. Your citation [2] doesn't in any way support that viewpoint. Actually, there probably aren't any citations which support that viewpoint, because EA is about as far opposite from Valve as a gaming company can get. (Zynga is likely the polar opposite.)

Skoofoo 13y ago
If your account is stolen and becomes VAC banned, Valve won't do anything about it and you will be stuck with gimped games, regardless of how much business you gave them (back then they didn't have security codes). I can't find this on Google, but at least twice I've read that Valve just ignores emails from game developers they're not interested in. In Team Fortress 2, the staff is allowed to hop on players' servers and practically cheat by mowing down everyone with overpowered weapons, and they ruined the game's integrity through introducing a microtransaction economy that they take advantage of to promote other Steam games. Maybe Valve isn't as bad as EA, but it's hardly as good as its reputation.
- kbenson 13y ago
  > I've read that Valve just ignores emails from game developers they're not interested in Details on that would be interesting. I have to say my first thought is that they probably get a lot of indie developers that want on the Network, and don't want to devote and entire position to explaining why not every publisher gets in Steam just because they want to. > In Team Fortress 2 ... they ruined the game's integrity through introducing a microtransaction economy So, they take their free to play game, and add the ability to customize your characters in ways that don't affect gameplay that make them money, and they have all of a sudden ruined the integrity of the game? Is it ruined because they want to make some money from it? I seem to remember that when they were just starting the hats, they were also putting out large updates for the player classes, for free. > take advantage of to promote other Steam games. You state that like it's bad for it's own sake. What's wrong with them promoting their other games?
  - 13y ago

mariuolo 13y ago

This is not about being anyone's friend: they're merely trying to keep their head above water. If this makes linux more popular as side-effect, so be it.

Skoofoo 13y ago
"After all, isn’t that what open source is all about – the idea that collaboration and teamwork achieve amazing things?" Written by Valve in the cited blog post, despite having nothing to do with open source.

hurfdurferson 13y ago

So, you are basically upset at Valve for changing course for the better? Compared to the other game publishers that will support Linux the day that the Devil skates to work? So hypocrisy is worse than being consistently evil all the time? Thanks, got it. /s

Havoc 13y ago

>I would sympathize with Valve if they didn't completely ignore Linux Can you blame them? I'm surprised they can make the numbers work even now, let alone 5 years ago. The probably still don't...its probably just a long range bet. >Plus they don't force DRM middleware on you. DRM is the future (not that I like it). The trick is simply to make it DRM like Steam where people barely realize its DRM and rather than EA's crap idea of DRM.

csense 13y ago
> DRM is the future Why? It seems entirely reasonable to me to have an equilibrium where there's some nonzero market niche of people who oppose DRM for practical and/or ideological reasons, and some nonzero number of developers that realize they can get access to that market by forgoing DRM on their products. Case in point: Just yesterday I saw Torchlight 2 was on sale on Gamersgate. I was totally ready to buy it on the spot. Then I saw that it was Steam-only. And I didn't buy it for that reason, and that reason alone. Those dollars from my entertainment budget are now ready to be captured by non-DRM products. If there are enough people like me, we can push back DRM, or at least keep it out of some corner of the market. If you don't like DRM, vote with your wallet.

mylons 13y ago

they're on board now, that's all that matters.

floor 13y ago

I wouldn't say they completely ignored Linux. They did have nix servers for all of their games back when 3d gaming on nix wasn't viable at all.