5 ms·

Paying an hourly rate solves these problems. Our project managers discourage long work weeks because they add cost without delivering proportional value. Work

by mjewkes 13y ago

Paying an hourly rate solves these problems. Our project managers discourage long work weeks because they add cost without delivering proportional value. Work weeks tend to be in the 20-25 hour range. We compensate by hiring about 30% more devs than average. The main disadvantage comes when a dev (often with a unique skillset) "owns" a particularly challenging piece of the project. Otherwise it works well.

rmrfrmrf 13y ago
If you're working for a new company, this might be true. However, many established companies (like the one I work for now) have fewer benefits for hourly employees, not to mention the pay ceilings are much lower than salary. Paying hourly also has a lot of annoying caveats to it. Should I be clocked in for work-related functions? What about ones where I'm expected to be there but it's from 6pm-8pm at a restaurant (and I'm already working 40+ hours with my boss getting hounded for excessive overtime pay)? Does this party at 1pm count as my government mandated lunch break? How closely am I being watched to make sure I'm working "efficiently"? Point being, hourlies usually end up being treated as second-class citizens one way or another, and it becomes even more apparent when hourly employees and salaried employees work together.
- VLM 13y ago
  Being treated with respect as a human being is a strange way to describe being treated as a second class citizen (Been there done that, on both sides of the argument BTW, and hourly was much more professional, much more humane) The answer to your questions BTW are yes, yes, yes if optional no if not, and depends solely on how paranoid the boss is and has nothing whatsoever to do with how finance pays you. The first three questions are pretty simple to figure out on your own. Did the boss tell you to do it, and will it show up on your review if you don't complete that requirement? Then you get paid, duh. I would agree with your last line, when I was hourly they treated salaried coworkers literally worse than slaves, not even as well as property is treated. Horrific.
  - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
    It would seem that we've had different experiences.
    - mjewkes 13y ago
      Ya - this sort of thing only makes sense if its part of a general worker-focused culture. We're also not paying wages, but hourly credits towards profit sharing. The whole context is important.
  - skrebbel 13y ago
    > The answer to your questions BTW are yes, yes, yes if optional no if not Oh come on. Did you write that comment with the intent of it being read?
- rdl 13y ago
  There are some hourly people who make more than salaries employers ("consultants" vs. "contractors", i.e. people hired for particular skill or experience vs. to fill a role, generally). There are some places where pretty much everyone but the very top management is some kind of hourly-billed contractor or consultant, which seems weird. In practice there are usually client and contracting firm cultural solutions to the ambiguous billing situations. Generally the thing to avoid is giving people unaccounted-for discounts; it's better to bill for more time but then give an explicit discount, or at least to make it clear you're not billing for something, vs. just silently not charging for things -- otherwise it is taken for granted and expected.
  - tekromancr 13y ago
    I am hourly, and I often find myself shaving my hours if I am unhappy with my output, and other times I can't help myself and I end up working for sixty hours and not put down the overtime. I don't think that this is unusual, it's how you keep a job in a down economy.
    - rdl 13y ago
      As a consultant, it's better to say "I worked 60h but am giving you a 50% discount", I think. Maybe it's different if you're hourly staff.
    - bhouser 13y ago
      I've experienced similar, but only when working hourly from home. I guess I feel responsible for distractions in my own house, but when I'm in the office I have no second thoughts about billing for the time where I did my best in the environment provided.
      - tekromancr 13y ago
        That's actually the situation I am in. I also feel like any time that I spend researching a solution (reading Blogs, Articles, Building POCs) isn't something that I should bill for. If I had done the same, but I had to go to an office, I wouldn't hesitate to report those hours. I guess it's because the former doesn't "feel" like work.

by mjewkes 13y ago

rmrfrmrf 13y ago

If you're working for a new company, this might be true. However, many established companies (like the one I work for now) have fewer benefits for hourly employees, not to mention the pay ceilings are much lower than salary. Paying hourly also has a lot of annoying caveats to it. Should I be clocked in for work-related functions? What about ones where I'm expected to be there but it's from 6pm-8pm at a restaurant (and I'm already working 40+ hours with my boss getting hounded for excessive overtime pay)? Does this party at 1pm count as my government mandated lunch break? How closely am I being watched to make sure I'm working "efficiently"? Point being, hourlies usually end up being treated as second-class citizens one way or another, and it becomes even more apparent when hourly employees and salaried employees work together.

VLM 13y ago
Being treated with respect as a human being is a strange way to describe being treated as a second class citizen (Been there done that, on both sides of the argument BTW, and hourly was much more professional, much more humane) The answer to your questions BTW are yes, yes, yes if optional no if not, and depends solely on how paranoid the boss is and has nothing whatsoever to do with how finance pays you. The first three questions are pretty simple to figure out on your own. Did the boss tell you to do it, and will it show up on your review if you don't complete that requirement? Then you get paid, duh. I would agree with your last line, when I was hourly they treated salaried coworkers literally worse than slaves, not even as well as property is treated. Horrific.
- rmrfrmrf 13y ago
  It would seem that we've had different experiences.
  - mjewkes 13y ago
    Ya - this sort of thing only makes sense if its part of a general worker-focused culture. We're also not paying wages, but hourly credits towards profit sharing. The whole context is important.
- skrebbel 13y ago
  > The answer to your questions BTW are yes, yes, yes if optional no if not Oh come on. Did you write that comment with the intent of it being read?
rdl 13y ago
There are some hourly people who make more than salaries employers ("consultants" vs. "contractors", i.e. people hired for particular skill or experience vs. to fill a role, generally). There are some places where pretty much everyone but the very top management is some kind of hourly-billed contractor or consultant, which seems weird. In practice there are usually client and contracting firm cultural solutions to the ambiguous billing situations. Generally the thing to avoid is giving people unaccounted-for discounts; it's better to bill for more time but then give an explicit discount, or at least to make it clear you're not billing for something, vs. just silently not charging for things -- otherwise it is taken for granted and expected.
- tekromancr 13y ago
  I am hourly, and I often find myself shaving my hours if I am unhappy with my output, and other times I can't help myself and I end up working for sixty hours and not put down the overtime. I don't think that this is unusual, it's how you keep a job in a down economy.
  - rdl 13y ago
    As a consultant, it's better to say "I worked 60h but am giving you a 50% discount", I think. Maybe it's different if you're hourly staff.
  - bhouser 13y ago
    I've experienced similar, but only when working hourly from home. I guess I feel responsible for distractions in my own house, but when I'm in the office I have no second thoughts about billing for the time where I did my best in the environment provided.
    - tekromancr 13y ago
      That's actually the situation I am in. I also feel like any time that I spend researching a solution (reading Blogs, Articles, Building POCs) isn't something that I should bill for. If I had done the same, but I had to go to an office, I wouldn't hesitate to report those hours. I guess it's because the former doesn't "feel" like work.