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I'm certain nuclear power submarines have two nuclear generators always running to prevent this from happening. I also think they may have a diesel powered gene

by ultimoo 13y ago

I'm certain nuclear power submarines have two nuclear generators always running to prevent this from happening. I also think they may have a diesel powered generator for bootstrapping.

joezydeco 13y ago
That was the most interesting part of this article. Even the largest power plant comes down to a simple 12V battery needed to bootstrap the first generator.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  Similarly, it's fun to realize that the entire 27-km Large Hadron Collider "runs" on a small bottle of hydrogen that you could hold in your hand. http://void.printf.net/~conor/sa/LHCb/LHCfuel.jpg http://void.printf.net/~conor/sa/LHCb/LHCfuel.jpg Without that insignificant-looking bottle the whole machine would have nothing to do. (Edit: I do have to wonder how wise it is to paint a bottle of hydrogen to look like a fire extinguisher.)
  - jrabone 13y ago
    Gas bottle colour codes and fire extinguisher colour codes are two distinct namespaces... Here's a handy chart: http://www.ior.org.uk/ior_/images/pdf/se/New%20Colour%20ID%20Chart.pdf http://www.ior.org.uk/ior_/images/pdf/se/New%20Colour%20ID%2...
    - CamperBob2 13y ago
      Wow, human factors=massive fail with that chart. "Hmm, is this acetylene or nitrogen?" That's not even getting into the whole red-green color blindness issue that could lead to confusing 'Flammable' with 'Inert' contents.
      - jrabone 13y ago
        You can't confuse acetylene or nitrogen, old or new style; acetylene uses maroon for the whole bottle, nitrogen uses black for the shoulder only. Also the cylinders are quite different shapes. Also the colours are for "the room is on fire, quick what's in that gas bottle over there?" situations. Are you allowed to be a safety responder if you're colour blind? For everyone else the rule is pretty simple; GTFO, and if acetylene is involved, GTFO out of the postcode.
        CamperBob2 13y ago
        Still, you don't go out of your way to pick confusing colors. This is Usability 101 stuff. If the room's on fire and I'm in it, I'm a 'safety responder' whether I want to be or not.
  - wnight 13y ago
    Video games have taught us that fire extinguishers blow up so it cancels out.
Nrsolis 13y ago
You're certain??? Better check your sources.
mpyne 13y ago
Only 1 U.S. submarine has ever had 2 nuclear reactors (bonus points for those who know why it was designed with 2). Soviet submarines often had 2 though. For the U.S. submarines they frequently would test shutting down the 1 operational reactor at-sea and trying to recover from the casualty, just to prove that it could be done when you didn't have time to pre-plan. Edit: U.S. subs do have diesels though. So next question: how do you bring up the diesel engine and its required auxiliaries without AC?
- Nrsolis 13y ago
  Nice try, Ivan. Remember, it's called the silent service for a reason. Those who know, don't tell; those who tell, don't know.
- joshAg 13y ago
  With a storeable dc power source, just like a car or truck. I suppose if that failed or had somehow discharged incorrectly, there should probably be a way to handcrank the diesel generator, like how early cars required hand cranking to start. PS: I had to look it up, but that's an interesting reason why that us sub had 2 nuclear reactors.
- angersock 13y ago
  Never been in the navy, so just guessing. Just kicking around ideas... Option A: You hand-crank the beast somehow? To get the glow-plug going, you again use a hand generator? Hopefully enough to bootstrap the generator (maybe it's a smaller generator that runs a larger one)? Generators all the way down? Option B: You blow ballast somehow and use the inrushing water to drive a turbine that runs the generator or gets it going? Option C: You manually pull the control rods and switch the coolant loop to run a small turbine to prime the generator? Option D: You mayday and get a jump from the Russian/Chinese/Iranian sub following you around? Option E: You try something dumb and dangerous with hydrogen peroxide from the torpedoes (I think/hope that that's phased out now)?
  - glurgh 13y ago
    I think it's mostly batteries, a sub operating at constant depth and in motion is negatively buoyant. If something goes wrong and it loses propulsion, power has to be available immediately to operate the systems that can handle the emergency - whether it's blowing ballast or restarting the reactor. This is a somewhat different constraint than the procedure described by the other reply - ships float without power, subs, not always. I mentioned this upthread - USS Thresher[1] seems to have suffered a loss of both propulsion and ballast control while near test-depth with, unfortunately, tragic results for the vessel and all on board. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)

by ultimoo 13y ago

I'm certain nuclear power submarines have two nuclear generators always running to prevent this from happening. I also think they may have a diesel powered generator for bootstrapping.

joezydeco 13y ago

That was the most interesting part of this article. Even the largest power plant comes down to a simple 12V battery needed to bootstrap the first generator.

CamperBob2 13y ago
Similarly, it's fun to realize that the entire 27-km Large Hadron Collider "runs" on a small bottle of hydrogen that you could hold in your hand. http://void.printf.net/~conor/sa/LHCb/LHCfuel.jpg http://void.printf.net/~conor/sa/LHCb/LHCfuel.jpg Without that insignificant-looking bottle the whole machine would have nothing to do. (Edit: I do have to wonder how wise it is to paint a bottle of hydrogen to look like a fire extinguisher.)
- jrabone 13y ago
  Gas bottle colour codes and fire extinguisher colour codes are two distinct namespaces... Here's a handy chart: http://www.ior.org.uk/ior_/images/pdf/se/New%20Colour%20ID%20Chart.pdf http://www.ior.org.uk/ior_/images/pdf/se/New%20Colour%20ID%2...
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    Wow, human factors=massive fail with that chart. "Hmm, is this acetylene or nitrogen?" That's not even getting into the whole red-green color blindness issue that could lead to confusing 'Flammable' with 'Inert' contents.
    - jrabone 13y ago
      You can't confuse acetylene or nitrogen, old or new style; acetylene uses maroon for the whole bottle, nitrogen uses black for the shoulder only. Also the cylinders are quite different shapes. Also the colours are for "the room is on fire, quick what's in that gas bottle over there?" situations. Are you allowed to be a safety responder if you're colour blind? For everyone else the rule is pretty simple; GTFO, and if acetylene is involved, GTFO out of the postcode.
      - CamperBob2 13y ago
        Still, you don't go out of your way to pick confusing colors. This is Usability 101 stuff. If the room's on fire and I'm in it, I'm a 'safety responder' whether I want to be or not.
- wnight 13y ago
  Video games have taught us that fire extinguishers blow up so it cancels out.

Nrsolis 13y ago

You're certain??? Better check your sources.

mpyne 13y ago

Only 1 U.S. submarine has ever had 2 nuclear reactors (bonus points for those who know why it was designed with 2). Soviet submarines often had 2 though. For the U.S. submarines they frequently would test shutting down the 1 operational reactor at-sea and trying to recover from the casualty, just to prove that it could be done when you didn't have time to pre-plan. Edit: U.S. subs do have diesels though. So next question: how do you bring up the diesel engine and its required auxiliaries without AC?

Nrsolis 13y ago
Nice try, Ivan. Remember, it's called the silent service for a reason. Those who know, don't tell; those who tell, don't know.
joshAg 13y ago
With a storeable dc power source, just like a car or truck. I suppose if that failed or had somehow discharged incorrectly, there should probably be a way to handcrank the diesel generator, like how early cars required hand cranking to start. PS: I had to look it up, but that's an interesting reason why that us sub had 2 nuclear reactors.
angersock 13y ago
Never been in the navy, so just guessing. Just kicking around ideas... Option A: You hand-crank the beast somehow? To get the glow-plug going, you again use a hand generator? Hopefully enough to bootstrap the generator (maybe it's a smaller generator that runs a larger one)? Generators all the way down? Option B: You blow ballast somehow and use the inrushing water to drive a turbine that runs the generator or gets it going? Option C: You manually pull the control rods and switch the coolant loop to run a small turbine to prime the generator? Option D: You mayday and get a jump from the Russian/Chinese/Iranian sub following you around? Option E: You try something dumb and dangerous with hydrogen peroxide from the torpedoes (I think/hope that that's phased out now)?
- glurgh 13y ago
  I think it's mostly batteries, a sub operating at constant depth and in motion is negatively buoyant. If something goes wrong and it loses propulsion, power has to be available immediately to operate the systems that can handle the emergency - whether it's blowing ballast or restarting the reactor. This is a somewhat different constraint than the procedure described by the other reply - ships float without power, subs, not always. I mentioned this upthread - USS Thresher[1] seems to have suffered a loss of both propulsion and ballast control while near test-depth with, unfortunately, tragic results for the vessel and all on board. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)